Well this is certianly not a "for sure" project, but it's in today's Business Journal. A $200M condo/hotel project is proposed across College St. from the Westin. The hotel component would include 700 rooms. It would include 2 20-30 story towers and the condo owners would receive all the hotel ammenities (a first for Charlotte). The developer is a relatively unknown firm out of Key West who has only done projects in So. Florida, so why he wants to come to Charlotte is beyond me. I'm pretty skeptical, but I'm not one to complain about ambitious tower projects.......
Reflections Towers
Started by
atlrvr
, Feb 11 2005 11:03 AM
24 replies to this topic
#2
RaleighHeelsfan
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Posted 11 February 2005 - 11:12 AM
atlrvr, on Feb 11 2005, 12:03 PM, said:
Well this is certianly not a "for sure" project, but it's in today's Business Journal. A $200M condo/hotel project is proposed across College St. from the Westin. The hotel component would include 700 rooms. It would include 2 20-30 story towers and the condo owners would receive all the hotel ammenities (a first for Charlotte). The developer is a relatively unknown firm out of Key West who has only done projects in So. Florida, so why he wants to come to Charlotte is beyond me. I'm pretty skeptical, but I'm not one to complain about ambitious tower projcts.......
Maybe this guy sees something in Charlotte! He would not do this if he thought it would fail.
#3
monsoon
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Posted 11 February 2005 - 12:25 PM
RaleighHeelsfan, on Feb 11 2005, 01:12 PM, said:
Maybe this guy sees something in Charlotte! He would not do this if he thought it would fail.
Welcome to UrbanPlanet RaleighHeelsfan!
#4
RaleighHeelsfan
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Posted 11 February 2005 - 12:47 PM
monsoon, on Feb 11 2005, 01:25 PM, said:
Welcome to UrbanPlanet RaleighHeelsfan!
Thanks, Metro.
I have been reading the board a long time. When I got here today though it would not let me read the board without signing in first. So, I finally got off my lazy butt and created an account
It was not hard either..lolI love following Charlotte. It's amazing to me they are building all these phat towers. I think it's safe to say Charlotte is booming right now. I just wish Raleighs downtown would do the same.
#5
uptownliving
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Posted 11 February 2005 - 02:10 PM
atlrvr, on Feb 11 2005, 12:03 PM, said:
Well this is certianly not a "for sure" project, but it's in today's Business Journal. A $200M condo/hotel project is proposed across College St. from the Westin. The hotel component would include 700 rooms. It would include 2 20-30 story towers and the condo owners would receive all the hotel ammenities (a first for Charlotte). The developer is a relatively unknown firm out of Key West who has only done projects in So. Florida, so why he wants to come to Charlotte is beyond me. I'm pretty skeptical, but I'm not one to complain about ambitious tower projcts.......
Well considering the Adam's Mark will probably close sometime in the not too distant future...maybe this project will work.
#6
dubone
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Posted 11 February 2005 - 02:22 PM
uptownliving, on Feb 11 2005, 02:10 PM, said:
Well considering the Adam's Mark will probably close sometime in the not too distant future...maybe this project will work.
The Adam's Mark sells these buildings, are they build a new hotel or are they leaving the market because it is over-built? Is the Adam's mark brand dying and can't compete with westin/hilton/marriott, etc.?
#7
norm21499
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Posted 11 February 2005 - 04:02 PM
I think the Adam's Mark will close and be turned into condos!
#8
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Posted 15 February 2005 - 04:38 PM
Jus thought I would start a thread about a new project mentioned in last week's CLT Business Journal. I know altrvr mentioned this on the "for sure projects" thread. Does anyone know any inside information about this project?
Developer eyes uptown for a $200M project
J. Lee Howard
Senior staff writer
A Florida development company is considering uptown for a $200 million twin-tower residential and hotel project.
Key West-based Argonaut Development Group envisions a pair of 20- to 30-story towers, one containing residential condos and the other a hotel with as many as 700 rooms, according to a proposal being circulated in the development and construction community.
The development would be called The Reflections.
The proposed site, sources say, is most of a block at East Stonewall, South Tryon and College streets near the Charlotte Convention Center.
Argonaut President Bob Butler has not secured financing for the project, say people familiar with the plans. Butler did not return phone calls to his Key West office seeking comment. But Argonaut has been making the rounds among local builders and others, touting the project, sources say.
Argonaut is best known in Florida for development of the SeaSide community in Key West, which contains 1,050 condominiums priced up to $1.75 million. The company also has other residential developments throughout Florida.
It's not clear if Argonaut has any other N.C. developments.
However, in the November issue of Concrete Homes magazine, Butler cited a large-scale residential project in Charlotte among the company's future projects.
A growing trend
The pairing of residential space and hotels is emerging as a popular urban trend nationwide. In such developments, condo owners typically have access to the amenities of hotel guests, including concierge service, housekeeping and room service. The Reflections would be built on that model.
Market watchers have predicted a turnaround in local development this year. Still, several uptown observers express surprise over the twin tower idea, questioning whether Charlotte could absorb such a massive development in the center city.
Plus, uptown has several ambitious condo projects either under construction or set to begin soon.
In addition, industry experts note, Charlotte's hotel occupancy rates have been less than inspiring, even as the market improves.
"It's questionable whether there's enough pent-up demand to support everything that's being considered," says local real estate analyst Frank Warren of Warren & Associates.
Among the new residential towers, Charlotte-based development firm The Ghazi Co. is planning The EpiCenter at Trade and College streets. That project, expected to range up to 46 stories, would mix retail and entertainment venues with as many as 400 residential units.
Warren says the residential field may be getting crowded. And adding a 700-room hotel that would rival The Charlotte Westin may be expecting too much, he says.
"That would be a challenge," says Tim Newman, chief executive at the Charlotte Regional Visitors Authority, which promotes tourism and conventions here.
Local hotel performance numbers would suggest they're right.
Uptown hotel occupancy at the end of 2004 was 57.5%, up from 54.7% at year end 2003, according to Smith Travel Research.
Average room rates uptown rose to $103.28 per night from $98.59 a year earlier, Smith Travel figures show.
While those improvements are encouraging, industry experts are not ready to say hospitality has rebounded.
"We are on the way, but the way the banks and the financing companies look at it, we're not there yet," says Geoff Kirkland, managing director of Horwath Horizon Hospitality Consulting.
a major hotel were built, it might boost Charlotte's ability to compete for larger conventions.
But whether the city could support the added rooms with other business travel is another matter, Kirkland says.
"There's a question about how it would hold up the rest of the year," he says.
Timing is crucial
Newman, the visitors authority chief, notes a project such as the one outlined by Argonaut could take two or three years to develop. By then, the market may have made a complete recovery, he says.
Or not.
"Timing is always a critical issue," Newman says. "But we're always pleased to see someone new come into the market."
Mayor Pat McCrory says he hasn't been aware of Argonaut's proposal. But he says the plan represents just one of many projects that have been drawn to Charlotte's vitality and growth potential.
"I've seen a number of new proposals presented for the center city of Charlotte that most cities would be begging for," McCrory says.
For years, local officials have longed for a stronger residential base uptown, and it appears the market finally is responding.
"We've anticipated this demand, but now it's coming at a rate faster than we ever imagined," McCrory says. "The expansion is beyond all of our expectations."
Developer eyes uptown for a $200M project
J. Lee Howard
Senior staff writer
A Florida development company is considering uptown for a $200 million twin-tower residential and hotel project.
Key West-based Argonaut Development Group envisions a pair of 20- to 30-story towers, one containing residential condos and the other a hotel with as many as 700 rooms, according to a proposal being circulated in the development and construction community.
The development would be called The Reflections.
The proposed site, sources say, is most of a block at East Stonewall, South Tryon and College streets near the Charlotte Convention Center.
Argonaut President Bob Butler has not secured financing for the project, say people familiar with the plans. Butler did not return phone calls to his Key West office seeking comment. But Argonaut has been making the rounds among local builders and others, touting the project, sources say.
Argonaut is best known in Florida for development of the SeaSide community in Key West, which contains 1,050 condominiums priced up to $1.75 million. The company also has other residential developments throughout Florida.
It's not clear if Argonaut has any other N.C. developments.
However, in the November issue of Concrete Homes magazine, Butler cited a large-scale residential project in Charlotte among the company's future projects.
A growing trend
The pairing of residential space and hotels is emerging as a popular urban trend nationwide. In such developments, condo owners typically have access to the amenities of hotel guests, including concierge service, housekeeping and room service. The Reflections would be built on that model.
Market watchers have predicted a turnaround in local development this year. Still, several uptown observers express surprise over the twin tower idea, questioning whether Charlotte could absorb such a massive development in the center city.
Plus, uptown has several ambitious condo projects either under construction or set to begin soon.
In addition, industry experts note, Charlotte's hotel occupancy rates have been less than inspiring, even as the market improves.
"It's questionable whether there's enough pent-up demand to support everything that's being considered," says local real estate analyst Frank Warren of Warren & Associates.
Among the new residential towers, Charlotte-based development firm The Ghazi Co. is planning The EpiCenter at Trade and College streets. That project, expected to range up to 46 stories, would mix retail and entertainment venues with as many as 400 residential units.
Warren says the residential field may be getting crowded. And adding a 700-room hotel that would rival The Charlotte Westin may be expecting too much, he says.
"That would be a challenge," says Tim Newman, chief executive at the Charlotte Regional Visitors Authority, which promotes tourism and conventions here.
Local hotel performance numbers would suggest they're right.
Uptown hotel occupancy at the end of 2004 was 57.5%, up from 54.7% at year end 2003, according to Smith Travel Research.
Average room rates uptown rose to $103.28 per night from $98.59 a year earlier, Smith Travel figures show.
While those improvements are encouraging, industry experts are not ready to say hospitality has rebounded.
"We are on the way, but the way the banks and the financing companies look at it, we're not there yet," says Geoff Kirkland, managing director of Horwath Horizon Hospitality Consulting.
a major hotel were built, it might boost Charlotte's ability to compete for larger conventions.
But whether the city could support the added rooms with other business travel is another matter, Kirkland says.
"There's a question about how it would hold up the rest of the year," he says.
Timing is crucial
Newman, the visitors authority chief, notes a project such as the one outlined by Argonaut could take two or three years to develop. By then, the market may have made a complete recovery, he says.
Or not.
"Timing is always a critical issue," Newman says. "But we're always pleased to see someone new come into the market."
Mayor Pat McCrory says he hasn't been aware of Argonaut's proposal. But he says the plan represents just one of many projects that have been drawn to Charlotte's vitality and growth potential.
"I've seen a number of new proposals presented for the center city of Charlotte that most cities would be begging for," McCrory says.
For years, local officials have longed for a stronger residential base uptown, and it appears the market finally is responding.
"We've anticipated this demand, but now it's coming at a rate faster than we ever imagined," McCrory says. "The expansion is beyond all of our expectations."
#9
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Posted 15 February 2005 - 06:45 PM
I would at least like to see the condo portion of this built if the hotel portion cant happen right away. Who knows how the hotel market would be when this project gets finished though, if it will ever happen. This project would most certainly help to push the skyline more towards South End.
#10
skysdalimit
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Posted 15 February 2005 - 06:59 PM
I think the hotel market will probably be a lot better, especially if a few old hotels close in the uptown area (Adam's Mark, Days Inn). It would probably be an upscale hotel though, so I don't know.
#11
moonshield
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Posted 12 April 2005 - 05:49 PM
Any word on these two towers? Was it all just a pipe dream?
#12
atlrvr
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Posted 12 April 2005 - 05:59 PM
It's one of those deals that just got reported on fairly early in the process. Usually things aren't announced until sales are about to begin. Judging from the information released, they are still probably anouther 8-10 months away from being ready to make a formal announcement. That said, I don't think it will happen. This is the developers first attempt at high-rise, and I don't think in the highly competitive market we are seeing right now that he will be able to produce something unique enough for people to want to buy in to the "outsider".....that goes for the banks too.
Edited by atlrvr, 12 April 2005 - 06:00 PM.
#13
CLTfanatic
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Posted 12 April 2005 - 06:05 PM
Can someone update those who dont know about this project?
#14
atlrvr
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Posted 12 April 2005 - 06:21 PM
2 towers located on the west side of tryon between stonewall and 277. one tower would be a hotel, the other would be condos. The condo owners would be eligable for the hotel ammenities including room service, conceirge, etc.... No official heights were announced, though 25-30 stories is the expectation.
#15
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Posted 12 April 2005 - 08:15 PM
atlrvr, on Apr 12 2005, 07:21 PM, said:
2 towers located on the west side of tryon between stonewall and 277. one tower would be a hotel, the other would be condos. The condo owners would be eligable for the hotel ammenities including room service, conceirge, etc.... No official heights were announced, though 25-30 stories is the expectation.
#16
uptownliving
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Posted 13 April 2005 - 01:06 AM
in addition to... i thought that the developer had done high rise in miami
#17
atlrvr
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Posted 13 April 2005 - 07:16 AM
These towers would be across College from the Westin.....I know they've done some condo in Miami, but I don't believe any were high-rise. They did win an award for innovative use of concrete in a project they did in Key West.....but it was all townhomes.
#18
dubone
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Posted 13 April 2005 - 07:21 AM
innovative use of concrete in townhomes? doesn't thomas edison have all the patents on that type of approach to homebuilding from the early 20th century?
...or was their innovation to pour the concrete into 2"x4"x8' sticks and put the house up like it was wood?
...or was their innovation to pour the concrete into 2"x4"x8' sticks and put the house up like it was wood?
#19
atlrvr
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Posted 13 April 2005 - 07:32 AM
lol.....not exactly sure what the innovation was, but i've seen pictures....for over a million a piece, i would want something that looks nicer than a gray bunker.....they built over 1,000 of them
#20
eastsider
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Posted 13 April 2005 - 08:57 AM
Anyone think this project could be more feasible with the location announcement of the nascar hall of fame? (or maybe just hotel the portion?) Assuming we get the HoF of course.
