Jump to content


- - - - -

Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion


  • Please log in to reply
2330 replies to this topic

#41 TravisNC

TravisNC

    Whistle-Stop

  • Members+
  • PipPipPip
  • 102 posts
  • Location:Northeastern, North Carolina

Posted 01 June 2004 - 01:59 AM

monsoon, on May 29 2004, 12:08 PM, said:

Thanks for the info Travis.   I thought that I would post this link of the pdf of the entire news letter.  One of the more interesting things is that it states its cost/seat mile is still significantly higher than any other Airline in the country.

Of course if the airline doesn't make it, and I would say it there is a 50/50 chance it won't, then there will be pleanty of empty gates in Charlotte.
The only airline I know of that has higher costs than US Airways is the new Independence Air/ACA whose CASM (cost per available seat mile) is around $.22.  That's about twice US Airways' costs ($.10).

It's very true that they may not make it, but at least, as things stand now, they don't have any plans to reduce flights at CLT.  Even if US Airways does stop operating given CLT's extremely low cost for airlines to operate there I can't help but think that some airline would make at least a focus operation.

Here are the costs for some random airports from Leigh Fisher Associates, an aviation consulting firm, via the Pittsburgh Business Times:

Cost per boarding passenger:
DEN - ~$10.00
PHL - $7.55
PIT - $7.26 (~$9 according to US Airways)
STL - $4.06
CVG - $3.53
CLT - $1.30

Charlotte's costs will get a little cheaper too since the airport is starting a Passenger Facilities Charge of $3 to pay for the expansion and to reduce airline costs.

I'm trying to be an optimist about the whole situation, but US Airways is making it hard.  ;)

 

#42 uptownliving

uptownliving

    Town

  • Members+
  • 3,795 posts
  • Location:Charlotte

Posted 01 June 2004 - 05:22 AM

How the hell is Indy Air going to survive with those types of CASMs?

#43 Nostyle

Nostyle

    Whistle-Stop

  • Members+
  • PipPipPip
  • 421 posts

Posted 01 June 2004 - 06:47 AM

Long term, CLT will be fine.  Even if US Airways does pack up and leave eventually, those gates will quickly be filled.  It's a great facility that is very affordable and in a great geographic location.  Yes, there may be a period coming up when US Airways finally does fold and the airport/city will feel its temporary loss, but I think we will recover very quickly.

But just like Travis, I'm an optimist. ;)

#44 monsoon

monsoon

    Megalopolis

  • Members+
  • 10,598 posts

Posted 01 June 2004 - 07:00 AM



#45 Nostyle

Nostyle

    Whistle-Stop

  • Members+
  • PipPipPip
  • 421 posts

Posted 01 June 2004 - 07:43 AM

You're presuming that no other airline would be interested in stepping in, and that's a bad presumption to make, considering Charlotte's affordability and location.  If US Airways leaves, some other airline will take their place, sooner than later.

Again, that's me, the optimist.

And of course, even that is presuming that the sky will fall on US Airways.  I think we all assume that they'll eventually fold, but who knows, maybe they'll pull through.  I don't see it, but hey, you never know.  If they do pull through, then Charlotte will be all the better off.  We were their largest hub to start, and now they've clearly taken steps to make CLT an even more integral part of their system.

More flights out of Charlotte?

If a US Airways makeover works, area passengers would see more direct flights and cheaper tickets


TED REED


Charlotte passengers should benefit if US Airways manages to remake itself as a low-fare airline with more point-to-point service and less emphasis on connecting flights. Not only would the airline gradually adopt lower fares here, it also would offer more flights.

Most of the talk about the airline's latest restructuring plan has focused on its operations in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. Pittsburgh International Airport is losing its hub, meaning few passengers will connect there.

At Philadelphia International Airport, US Airways will focus less on connecting traffic because it believes low fares will generate more local traffic. Fares have been falling rapidly in Philadelphia because low-fare king Southwest Airlines began flying there May 9.

US Airways' operations at Charlotte/Douglas International Airport, already its largest hub, will change, too. While connecting traffic becomes less important in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, "US Airways will grow Charlotte and make it our primary connecting operation," the airline said last week in an employee newsletter.

As for fares, airline executives told union leaders this month that increasing competition from low-fare carriers means most U.S. markets will see lower fares by 2007. From conversations I've had with airline officials, it seems their goal is to move faster than that in Charlotte -- home of the highest fares in the nation -- although they have not laid out a timetable.

The number of Charlotte flights would grow for two reasons. US Airways wants to increase its profitable Caribbean flying, which operates primarily from Charlotte. The airline also says it will move some Pittsburgh flights to either Charlotte or Philadelphia. That could mean more flights from Charlotte to the West Coast or to smaller cities whose passengers now connect through Pittsburgh.

The plan could mean that US Airways will increase the number of "banks" at the Charlotte hub, and make each bank smaller. In airline parlance, banks are the clusters of flights that make up a hub system. In a bank, dozens of flights arrive and depart in a narrow timeframe, usually around an hour, allowing passengers to connect between flights.

Currently, the airline operates eight banks in Charlotte, starting at 8 a.m. and ending at 9:55 p.m. In each bank, an average of 58 flights arrives and departs.

Charlotte Aviation Director Jerry Orr said the airline may well move to 10 banks, the number it operated two years ago. "You want as many banks as you can squeeze in," he said. "If you jam the banks closer together, it's more efficient. You can keep the airplanes in the air more and you get more productivity out of the ground people."

For local passengers, more banks could mean even more frequent flights to key destinations such as New York La Guardia and Washington National airports. But Orr said there's a downside: With banks jammed closer together, runways are constantly in use, allowing less margin to accommodate late planes and increasing the chance of delays or cancellations.

Here are plans for US Airways' other key cities:

• In Philadelphia, "domestic flights will not be bunched up ... to accommodate connections, but scheduled more on a `rolling' basis targeted at local customers," the airline's newsletter said.

Because low fares will stimulate more local traffic in a heavily populated area, US Airways can rely more on local passengers rather than having planes wait for connecting passengers to arrive on incoming flights.

• Pittsburgh will have fewer flights and fewer nonstop destinations. The airline will offer flights geared to the demands of Pittsburgh travelers rather than connecting travelers.

• New York and Washington are the nation's largest local markets for airline passengers, while Boston is eighth. US Airways has large shares of the gates and counter space at La Guardia, Reagan National and Logan airports, and large shares of the assigned takeoff and departure times, known as "slots," at La Guardia and National.

The airline wants to use these assets to serve the routes flown by local residents. For instance, it would likely add flights between New York and Detroit, a route where it doesn't fly now.

Bad experience

Mooresville resident Amy Bernstein, who is seven months pregnant, had an uncomfortable experience last week on a Continental Airlines flight from Greensboro to Newark, N.J. for about 15 minutes, waiting for portable steps to be rolled up so passengers could get off. Bernstein had to use the bathroom. But a flight attendant wouldn't let her.

At one point, she said, she got up and the flight attendant "barked into the intercom `Sit back down, ma'am.' " She said she pleaded with the flight attendant, but to no avail. "When I got to the terminal, I was in tears," she wrote. "I wish I had known this bathroom policy ahead of time so I would have known to go to the bathroom before we started descending."

Bernstein sent an e-mail to Continental. The airline apologized for the flight attendant's response, noting that while "All passengers are required to stay seated on an active runway ... the situation could have been handled in a professional manner."

A flight attendant we know might have let Bernstein use the bathroom, but noted that federal regulations prohibit passengers from standing up until the plane's wheels are blocked and the "fasten seat belt" signs are turned off.

Free plastic bags

Officials at Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport, which has been having security checkpoint delays, are trying a new gimmick to move passengers through more quickly. They are handing out resealable plastic bags to passengers who are in line at the checkpoints.

The bags promote "early divestiture," said Yolanda Clark, spokeswoman for the Transportation Security Administration. This means, in TSA-talk, that passengers already have taken their keys, coins and other metal items out of their pockets and put them in the bags before arriving at the metal detector. That "increases throughput," Clark said.

With the heavy summer travel season upon them, airlines, airports and the TSA are hoping that passengers will know how to help the screening process along. Getting metal into bags or bins, taking laptop computers out of their cases and removing shoes with metal are key steps, because they mean passengers don't have to go through a second level of screening.

Orr said there are no current plans to use plastic bags at Charlotte/Douglas because the advantages and disadvantages of using bags are roughly equivalent. While the bags may speed some people through security, a worker has to hand them out, and other workers sometimes have to open the bags to spread out the contents before screening, Orr said.

"We have discussed it up one side and down the other, and came to the conclusion that it costs as much as you gain."

Fare update

A new survey shows that Charlotte air fares rose 9.9 percent between the fourth quarter of 2002 and the fourth quarter of 2003, the highest rate of increase in the continental United States. Two airports in Hawaii had larger increases, while the national average increase was 1.5 percent, according to the survey by the Department of Transportation. Also in the top five: Columbus, Ohio, 9.9 percent; and Manchester, N.H., 8.2 percent.

Another recent Transportation Department survey showed Charlotte had the country's highest fares in the third quarter of 2003.

Ted

Reed

#46 uptownliving

uptownliving

    Town

  • Members+
  • 3,795 posts
  • Location:Charlotte

Posted 01 June 2004 - 08:01 AM

monsoon, on Jun 1 2004, 07:59 AM, said:

Actually in the USAir newletter link posted above, it says that O&D traffic represents only 17% (I think) of its traffic in Charlotte.   Presumably if they disappear and no other airline establishes a hub here,  Charlotte will be reduced to possibly having only one active terminal, and that one would not be filled.   The other 4 terminals would be empty.
How did you get the 17% number? I am not finding it in the Update Newsletter.

Also...if USAirways does completely shutdown, then other carriers would pick up the some of the slack. I would say that at the very least one should expect something along the lines of RDU...which in the number of flights and passenger volume is roughly half the size of CLT. So worst case scenario I would see 2.5 of the 5 concourses at CLT become empty if USAir leaves.

#47 wolfdawg54

wolfdawg54

    Burg

  • Members+
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,966 posts
  • Location:FL

Posted 03 June 2004 - 04:16 PM

I always like traveling through the Charlotte airport. It is very efficient and I have been lucky so that I don't have to walk to the plane from the terminal. It looks like a long walk.

#48 Nostyle

Nostyle

    Whistle-Stop

  • Members+
  • PipPipPip
  • 421 posts

Posted 10 June 2004 - 07:44 AM

For such a negative situation, the news for Charlotte always seems to be good...for now.  This article is an example.  You gotta think that US Airways feels at least somewhat confident that they'll be around if they're making such an expensive move like this...

US Airways moving 130 jobs to Charlotte

Crew training to be consolidated here

TED REED

Staff Writer


US Airways said Wednesday it will consolidate its crew training in Charlotte, bringing about 130 positions from Pittsburgh in another indication that Charlotte's importance to the airline is growing at Pittsburgh's expense.

The change, expected to be concluded within six months, will also bring three flight simulators to a crew training center at Charlotte/Douglas International Airport. The airline expects to save about $3 million a year.

Jerry Orr, aviation director at Charlotte/Douglas, said that in addition to the jobs, the move means hundreds of visits a year by pilots and flight attendants who will come to train, stay in hotels and eat at local restaurants. "There's a considerable economic impact," he said.

Orr said the center, which the airport leases to the airline, was expanded in 1999 at a cost of $13 million, in anticipation of such a move. The airline's Pittsburgh training is conducted largely in two leased, former schools. "We knew it makes sense to have all your training in one place," Orr said.

The workers expected to move to Charlotte include flight attendant trainers, a few dozen pilots and 44 flight training instructors.

While the change is positive for Charlotte, it is "devastating" for Pittsburgh and flight training instructors who will have to move to keep their jobs, said Bill Gray, president of Transport Workers Union Local 547, which represents the instructors.

"A lot of our employees are original Pittsburgh residents who grew up here and have family here and are going to be torn apart by this news," Gray said.

Instructors range in age from the mid 30s to their 60s and earn about $50,000 to $75,000 annually, he said. Many have children in school.

US Airways has its busiest hub in Charlotte, where it employs about 5,739 workers. The airline said last month that under its proposed restructuring plan, Charlotte would become its "primary connecting operation," while Pittsburgh would lose its hub status. A hub, which collects passengers from around the country, offers far more nonstop service than a typical airport.

Charlotte has 467 daily departures; Pittsburgh has 379. Charlotte's total will likely grow as the airline builds Caribbean flights and moves some connecting flights from Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh, which has lost 170 daily departures since the Sept. 11 attacks, is expected to lose more.

Troubled US Airways has said it could file for bankruptcy protection a second time if it fails to secure cost savings from all of its unions. The airline's restructuring plan foresees lower fares across US Airways' system, more point-to-point flying as well as labor-cost reductions of $800 million annually.

US Airways is negotiating with its pilots for lower costs, but so far none of its other employee unions has agreed to talk.

Dave Butterfield, a spokesman for the US Airways chapter of the Air Line Pilots Association, said the training center expansion will bring high-paying pilot jobs, some paying as much as $150,000 annually.

The move is encouraging, he said, because US Airways executives "wouldn't be spending the money to move this down here unless they thought the airline was going to be around."

Simulators, costing about $12 million to $16 million each, are large boxes mounted on springs that duplicate the inside of a cockpit and mimic a plane's response to a pilot's maneuvers.

When the move is completed, the Charlotte training center will house seven simulators, with additional space for three regional jet simulators.

#49 monsoon

monsoon

    Megalopolis

  • Members+
  • 10,598 posts

Posted 10 June 2004 - 12:49 PM



#50 Guest_donaltopablo_*

Guest_donaltopablo_*
  • Guests

Posted 10 June 2004 - 02:33 PM

To me, that's the big question.  Will US Air actually survive all together.

#51 Phillydog

Phillydog

    Whistle-Stop

  • Members+
  • PipPipPip
  • 410 posts
  • Location:Hartford Boston NYC

Posted 11 June 2004 - 05:18 AM

monsoon, on Jun 10 2004, 12:49 PM, said:

My guess is considering this move, the mechanics jobs will eventually be moved out of pittsburgh too.  That is if they survive long enought to do this.
I get the impression that USAir may also withdraw from Philadelphia?  I wonder if plans are being made to shut down USAir as we know it, and then quickly reemerge as a major discounter?

In any case, Delta doesn't look like it's doing too well either.

#52 Nostyle

Nostyle

    Whistle-Stop

  • Members+
  • PipPipPip
  • 421 posts

Posted 11 June 2004 - 06:17 AM

Seems US Airways has big plans for Philly too.  Philly and Charlotte seem to be their (hopeful) future, with Pittsburgh getting reduced.

Continental is struggling now too, from what I hear.  What an unhealthy industry.

#53 monsoon

monsoon

    Megalopolis

  • Members+
  • 10,598 posts

Posted 11 June 2004 - 07:39 AM



#54 Nostyle

Nostyle

    Whistle-Stop

  • Members+
  • PipPipPip
  • 421 posts

Posted 11 June 2004 - 10:55 AM

Please explain how US Airways is holding other airlines back from making their presence felt at CLT.

#55 monsoon

monsoon

    Megalopolis

  • Members+
  • 10,598 posts

Posted 11 June 2004 - 11:17 AM



#56 Neo

Neo

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • 4,762 posts
  • Location:Charlotte

Posted 11 June 2004 - 11:48 AM

I personally think that a couple of large discount airlines should come into Charlotte and take one for the team. 8-)

#57 Phillydog

Phillydog

    Whistle-Stop

  • Members+
  • PipPipPip
  • 410 posts
  • Location:Hartford Boston NYC

Posted 11 June 2004 - 07:55 PM

Neo, on Jun 11 2004, 11:47 AM, said:

I personally think that a couple of large discount airlines should come into Charlotte and take one for the team. 8-)
I agree.  monsoon, you've given as good an explanation for USAir's stranglehold on the Charlotte market as any but I have to wonder, why were the others able to enter Philadelphia when local passengers there could have as easily (or more so) made the trip to lower-fare airports in Washington-Baltimore or NYC than we can make to GSO or RDU?

#58 monsoon

monsoon

    Megalopolis

  • Members+
  • 10,598 posts

Posted 11 June 2004 - 08:02 PM



#59 Phillydog

Phillydog

    Whistle-Stop

  • Members+
  • PipPipPip
  • 410 posts
  • Location:Hartford Boston NYC

Posted 11 June 2004 - 08:47 PM

monsoon, on Jun 11 2004, 08:01 PM, said:

That is easy.  The O&D traffic in both Philly and DC is a much bigger percentage of the total traffic.  USAir is not the powerhouse in those markets as they are in Charlotte.
I wonder though, if Charlotte didn't have USAir what would be the O&D traffic out of Douglas that's now bleeding to CAE, GSP, GSO, and RDU?

Edited by Phillydog, 11 June 2004 - 08:49 PM.


#60 Nostyle

Nostyle

    Whistle-Stop

  • Members+
  • PipPipPip
  • 421 posts

Posted 11 June 2004 - 09:18 PM

I'd imagine it would be significant, PhillyDog.  In fact, I was just looking over a thread elsewhere that ranked the nation's airports by passengers for 2003, and there was GSO ranked 85th with 2.57 million passengers/year.  Gotta wonder how many of those were Charlotteans venturing 1.5 hours down I-85...




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users