160 replies to this topic

[roads-scholar]

Sparkleman, on 21 October 2010 - 07:17 AM, said:

I know this may sound ridiculous to all of us forward thinkers here on the board, but the complaint I hear most from folks is that the parking sucks downtown. Most folks don't mind parking in a deck if there is a festival or something big going on but on regualar weekends when its not very crowded they are very hesitant to park in the decks. I think this comes due to thinking they are unsafe. These are mostly families with young/younger kids in tow. I can't say that I really blame them as I don't like being in the decks later than 9 pm or so. Believe it or not, there are some unsavory folks hanging out in and around the decks later at night and they are not policed that well.

Its a tough mindset to break unless you can assure people that downtown parking is safe and well lighted.

It makes me sick to hear people complaining about the lack of downtown parking and the decks.  The decks are clean, attractive, well-lighted, SAFE, and FREE at night and on the weekends! I've NEVER had a problem finding a parking place, regardless of the day or time of day. Downtown is NOT Westgate Mall with acres of asphalt nor do we want it to be.  For gosh sakes, people complain about everything!  I'm getting fed up with the whiners who don't have ANYTHING good to say about Spartanburg.  

It's time for the whiners to stop complaining and offer substantive ideas and solutions.  If they can't, they should move to  Perfectville!

[Spartan]

I thinkthat people's problem is not this supposed lack of parking, but rather the lack of parking within sight of their destination. People seem unwilling to park up by the Dennys building and walk(gasp!) two blocks down to the square. I don't know why this is, but it is. People do it in Greenville like it's no big deal though, so I guess Spartanburg isn't ready to take the next step.

[westsider28]

I think there are a few reasons for the public perception of decks being unsafe or too far away.  First is a lack of connectivity due to vacant storefronts.  Greenville has restaurants and shops in nearly every building in the downtown area, this makes it feel easier and safer to walk around due to all the things that come with storefronts (lighting, more foot traffic, general sense of life).  

Secondly is a lack of awareness that the decks are free on nights and weekends.  Once again, Greenville has large, highly-visible signage that indicates that parking is free at those times.  Also, the City of Greenville's website has extensive parking information.  Spartanburg has done an extremely poor job of informing people of this.  The garages themselves have no cost info on-site (except the Dunbar garage), and the City of Spartanburg's website has no parking information whatsoever.  I think more people would park in the garages even during weekdays if they knew it was only $0.50 an hour.

I have no problems parking in the garages.  However, I still think we need more street-side parking.  As Spartan said, people prefer to park within sight of their destination.  Or perhaps people feel like parking their car out on the street where people are walking by is safer.  Anyway, we still have less on-street parking than Greenville, so we need to improve that.  We have many opportunities to add some through road diets / reconfigurations.

[alias007]

I saw an article just now.  Good news about the high speed rail.  $4 million and $22 million grants.

http://www.examiner....high-speed-rail

[westsider28]

Good luck getting the state of South Carolina to pitch in any money.  I've been following HSR progress on the Raleigh and Charlotte UP boards, and they see SC as a roadblock to HSR progress.  I hope these grants will help, but I'm sure they won't be enough to pay for the whole thing.  Tons of infrastructure work is required to support HSR, including: doubling tracks where there are single tracks, building bridges or tunnels at road crossings (or permanently closing some road crossings), and upgrading/expanding railroad stations.  Personally, I'm a supporter of HSR, but it will be difficult to convince many people in the Upstate/SC that it is worth the money.

[Spartan]

Many folks in North Carolina forget that the SEHSR has to build the section from Washington to Charlotte before the part from Charlotte to Atlanta gets built. The HSR through South Carolina is in a later phase of planning because it wont get built until after the NC portion.

I'm not all that concerned about it. Grants like the one mentioned are what can help make this thing happen sooner.

[new prospect]

I have an historical question about I-85 Business I hope someone on the forum can answer.  I remember reading somewhere that one of the reasons for the awkward entrance and exit ramps and frontage roads along old I-85 (now I-85 Business) is that when I-85 was first built (1960's?  1970's?) the portion near Spartanburg used a previously existing US Highway.  Was it US 29 or another US Highway?  That is, was US 29's route changed at some point or has it always gone through downtown?

[spartanburgh]

US 29 has always gone through downtown. It was relocated from Main St. to St. John St. When the downtown Main St. was converted into the "Mall" I believe.

[Spartan]

Roads Scholar might have more to say about this one.

My understanding is that they rerouted 29 to an "interstate-like thing" and then converted it to a real interstate by adding signage on what is now I-85 Business Loop. I'll add that I don't know if that's accurate or not, but it would explain why the section between I-585 and I-26 is so horrible.

Since we're on this thread, has anyone heard anything about the Long Range Transportation Plan?

[new prospect]

The reason I ask is, there was a story in the Herald-Journal recently about the Dairy Dream at Hearon Circle moving to Boiling Springs so that a large gas station / convenience store can be built.  The story said Dairy Dream had been at Hearon Circle since the 50's, and apparently there's been an historical marker since 1954.

http://www.hmdb.org/...sp?marker=17454

I'm sure the overpass was added later but it's interesting to me that there was a rotary there that far back.

I haven't heard anything new about the Long-Range plan, but work on widening SC 9 near SC 292 (near where I live) is coming along.  i heard it's supposed to be finished summer 2012.

[GSP Tiger]

I think US 29 Alternate was used for Business 85.  The complete route stretched from Lyman to Kings Mountain, North Carolina.  When Interstate 85 was commissioned, the alternate route was decommissioned.  The stretch from Lyman to I-85 (Exit 68) was redesignated as SC-129.  The route remains 2 lanes with room on the sides of what was to become a 4 lane divided highway.

[new prospect]

Saw this on the SCDOT site under construction updates.  Apparently a 'Blackstock Road Bridge Project' to enhance parts of North Blackstock (SR-41) and Fairforest (SR-525) Roads was approved in 2007, though as far as I can tell nothing else has been done.  Don't know if this is merely an enhancement or new construction.  Maybe they want to replace the old overpasses over Business 85 and I-26?

http://dbw.scdot.org...artanburg&TY=24

I'm still hoping for SC 129 to be extended from I-85 to Fairforest Rd. and for West Blackstock to be extended to Fairforest Rd. or Business 85, as others have suggested (earlier in this thread and in the Arcadia Redevelopment thread).

[roads-scholar]

new prospect, on 02 March 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

Saw this on the SCDOT site under construction updates.  Apparently a 'Blackstock Road Bridge Project' to enhance parts of North Blackstock (SR-41) and Fairforest (SR-525) Roads was approved in 2007, though as far as I can tell nothing else has been done.  Don't know if this is merely an enhancement or new construction.  Maybe they want to replace the old overpasses over Business 85 and I-26?

http://dbw.scdot.org...artanburg&TY=24

I'm still hoping for SC 129 to be extended from I-85 to Fairforest Rd. and for West Blackstock to be extended to Fairforest Rd. or Business 85, as others have suggested (earlier in this thread and in the Arcadia Redevelopment thread).

Agree.  I've advocated this connection for years as it seems to me a no-brainer.

[GSP Tiger]

new prospect, on 02 March 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

Saw this on the SCDOT site under construction updates.  Apparently a 'Blackstock Road Bridge Project' to enhance parts of North Blackstock (SR-41) and Fairforest (SR-525) Roads was approved in 2007, though as far as I can tell nothing else has been done.  Don't know if this is merely an enhancement or new construction.  Maybe they want to replace the old overpasses over Business 85 and I-26?

http://dbw.scdot.org...artanburg&TY=24

It sounds like the the at-grade crossing will be replaced with an bridge overpassing the railroad.  Such work will require elevating North Blackstock Road, Fairforest Road, Hayne Street, and Fairforest Clevedale Road a couple hundred feet.

The alternative is construct the bridge west using Old Blackstock Road overpassing the railroad.  This provides an additional crossing without having to stop for a passing train, and improves safety.  The drawback is several residences being affected.

[Spartan]

Assuming this project didn't get held up in the SCDOT budget issues of the past few years, they are still in design. Right of way acquisition isn't supposed to start until 2013, and depending on the scope of the project that could take years. The map on the website is misleading, so I'd be interested to know what they are actually planning to do.

And when dealing with Norfolk-Southern rail, you can expect the wait time to increase dramatically.

Best bet would be to call/email the MPO (do a search for SPATS on the County website) and ask someone what's going on. SPATS along with SCDOT determine the priority in which projects are funded and constructed.

[new prospect]

OK, found this in the SPATS long-range transportation plan, which is available here:  http://spatsmpo.org/bin/dl/LRTP.pdf

From page 89:
Another problem area that needs addressing, which does not show up in the ranking process, is the intersection of North Blackstock Road, Fairforest Road and Hayne Street. A set of railroad tracks are involved in this intersection as well. Traffic signals are located on both sides of the railroad tracks without adequate storage for traffic queues between the signals. Drivers will often make right turns on red and become trapped on the railroad tracks. Railroad preemption of the traffic signal, automatic traffic arms and flashing crossbuck lights and “no right turn on red” signs are in place. The reconstruction and relocation of the intersections near the railroad tracks are needed.

And page 91:
Recommended intersection relocations and improvements....Reconstruction of the North Blackstock Road, Fairforest Road and Hayne Street intersection. Consider all options for closing roadways, relocating
roadways, providing alternate routes or bridging the railroad tracks.

So yes, it looks like the project is not ranked, is many years away, and all options are still on the table.

[roads-scholar]

new prospect, on 17 March 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

OK, found this in the SPATS long-range transportation plan, which is available here:  http://spatsmpo.org/bin/dl/LRTP.pdf

From page 89:
Another problem area that needs addressing, which does not show up in the ranking process, is the intersection of North Blackstock Road, Fairforest Road and Hayne Street. A set of railroad tracks are involved in this intersection as well. Traffic signals are located on both sides of the railroad tracks without adequate storage for traffic queues between the signals. Drivers will often make right turns on red and become trapped on the railroad tracks. Railroad preemption of the traffic signal, automatic traffic arms and flashing crossbuck lights and “no right turn on red” signs are in place. The reconstruction and relocation of the intersections near the railroad tracks are needed.

And page 91:
Recommended intersection relocations and improvements....Reconstruction of the North Blackstock Road, Fairforest Road and Hayne Street intersection. Consider all options for closing roadways, relocating
roadways, providing alternate routes or bridging the railroad tracks.

So yes, it looks like the project is not ranked, is many years away, and all options are still on the table.

I grew up in Fairforest and I'm very familiar with this intersection. Even years ago it was a problem, primarily due to the railroad tracks and the geometry of the roads.  When a train comes through, which is often, the traffic backs up in FIVE different directions!

[Spartan]

I'm not a fan of closing streets off. Relocate them if needed, but maintain the connectivity in that area, regardless of how disjointed it is.

[westsider28]

This is sort of related to our discussion on the Rail Trail thread.  Here is a study (PDF) on a proposed "Road Diet" of Daniel Morgan Avenue.  It recommends narrowing the section from John B. White Blvd to W. Main to 3 lanes (on lane each way + turn median) and add a 2-way bike path on one side, separated by a landscaped median (see cross-section below).  The rest of DMA (W Main to Pine) would just be restriped with typical 4-foot bike lanes on each side (due to funding constraints).



I like the idea in general, but I'm concerned about the lack of on-street parking for DMA in the core of downtown.  This is a perfect opportunity to add that.  You don't even necessarily need dedicated bike lanes in the core of downtown if you have a complete, low-speed, urban street.

I think Spartanburg is getting a little out of hand when it comes to slapping down bike lanes wherever possible.  Then you end up with too-narrow bike lanes where you're riding in the gutter/drain grates, or a mess like Broad Street.  There needs to be more consideration of all uses of a street.  And I'm a cyclist.

[Spartan]

I agree 100%. Bike lanes and a path on Daniel Morgan Ave are a great idea, but in the core area, which I would define as being located between Broad Street and Church Street, should have on street parking and no bike lanes. The 'sharrow' symbol could be used if that is a concern. There is a high demand for parking in that area, and I think more on-street parking would be a good solution in addition to serving as a traffic coming measure.

Overall I think this is great news