161 replies to this topic

[Blazer85]

Birmingham is currently considering reopening streetcar lines throughout the city.  Here's some background to consider.  I was just reading random stuff on the BJCTA website and found a couple of interesting facts.

-1884 Birmingham's Street Railway Company opened with five lines

-1891 First electric streetcar began operation

-1925 Birmingham Railway and Electric Company Streetcar system operated over 80 miles of track and carried 56 million revenue passengers

-1948 Ridership reached an all time peak at 93 million passengers


93 million!! Good heavens!

No wonder Birmingham was said to have had the 2nd most extensive streetcar system in the nation.

[ironchapman]

Without a doubt. I have always wanted to ride in a streetcar. Any sort of efficient mass transit is good.

[bobliocatt]

Yes, of course the city should.  I heard it will be fairly cheap to re-open some lines, because all the city did, was just pave over the tracks.

[RiversideGator]

Quote

1948 Ridership reached an all time peak at 93 million passengers

Why in the hell did they get rid of it then??

[Blazer85]

^ People were getting rid of them everywhere in the 1950s.  Cars became more affordable, and anywhere people could buy them, they did.  Toronto (which has/had one of the more extensive streetcar networks in the world) maintained theirs through all of those years... primarily because Toronto had a large population of poor that could not afford cars.  BHM, however, had a large enough population that bought cars that it significantly hurt the industry.  Streetcars were also once very popular in Cleveland and Cincinnati as well.  When Birmingham, Cleveland, and Cincinnati discontinued their streetcar lines, Toronto bought most of those cities streetcars.

[A2]

thelakelander, on Jun 14 2005, 04:59 AM, said:

Yes, of course the city should.  I heard it will be fairly cheap to re-open some lines, because all the city did, was just pave over the tracks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yup...It would not be that costly. B'ham has an extensive track network. The only concern is that the areas in which the tracks run are in generally run-down blighted areas. For example East lake and Woodlawn. Those area of town used to thrive with activity. Now most of the people who commute to work live in areas that do not have existing lines. (ie 280, Trussville, and Hoover). I still would be behind it though. It might even bring some deveoplers back to the table to enhance the quality of life along B'ham's abandoned corridors. Here is hoping for the best. Btw, it would not be a bad idea at all to put one on 20th street. That would be awesome.

[Southron]

Blazer85, on Jun 14 2005, 08:25 AM, said:

^ People were getting rid of them everywhere in the 1950s.  Cars became more affordable, and anywhere people could buy them, they did.  Toronto (which has/had one of the more extensive streetcar networks in the world) maintained theirs through all of those years... primarily because Toronto had a large population of poor that could not afford cars.  BHM, however, had a large enough population that bought cars that it significantly hurt the industry.  Streetcars were also once very popular in Cleveland and Cincinnati as well.  When Birmingham, Cleveland, and Cincinnati discontinued their streetcar lines, Toronto bought most of those cities streetcars.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, blazer, it was more complicated than that.  National City Lines, a bogus streetcar company owned by General Motors and other major auto/oil interests, bought up most of the streetcar lines in this country, and this began before the 1950s.  

Read this:

http://en.wikipedia....onal_City_Lines

and this:

http://en.wikipedia....tcar_conspiracy

I didn't believe my college professor when he told our class about this.   Unfortunately, it's true.
The apologists for suburban sprawl would have you believe that their cash cow came about because of market forces.  Ruthless power politics had more to do with it.

[Southron]

The return of streetcars to Birmingham would be a major coup for the city.  Hopefully a decent mayor will get elected eventually, and make it happen.

[bobliocatt]

What's the hold up now?  I thought the city was ready to make a move on this a couple of months ago.

[vulcan/elektra]

OMG how we need a viable transit system. Here is an update on that.

Alternatives Analysis For Streetcar Environmental Study Progresses
Phase II of the Alternatives Analysis has commensed with the selection of the firm DMJM & Harris to lead a
team of consultants to evaluate corridors and modes in the downtown Birmingham and UAB/Southside areas.
While the focus of the study is mostly in the downtown area, its emphasis on transit is regional and will serve
as the framework for a regional system.
This project constitutes the advancement of one of the transit system plan elements, the downtown streetcar
project. In order for this project to advance within the prescribed federal guidelines and receive federal funding,
it must complete both a corridor level Alternatives Analysis (AA) and the corresponding Draft Environmental
Impact Statement (DEIS). The RPC, in cooperation with the Birmingham-Jefferson County Transit
Authority, will work with DMJM & Harris who will conduct the technical work needed to complete this phase
of the regional transit plan.

[A2]

I do not know if you guys read this or not, but this is not exactly a great way to get an Urban Core back on its feet. I think some corrupt official was skimming off of the top.

Might want to read.

http://www.al.com/ne...ll=2&thispage=1



A2

[MAJIKMAN]

Hey, almost the same thing happened here in Greenville, SC. But the thing with that is, the system was shut down for about six months. They had had to figure out what happened. And to tell you the truth I don't think we ever did. Everything
just came back on line, with less of everything though.

[A2]

MAJIKMAN, on Aug 18 2005, 01:51 PM, said:

Hey, almost the same thing happened here in Greenville, SC. But the thing with that is, the system was shut down for about six months. They had had to figure out what happened. And to tell you the truth I don't think we ever did. Everything
just came back on line, with less of everything though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WOW !!! MAJIKMAN, I had NO idea that happened in Greenville ! What year was that in???

A2

[MAJIKMAN]

It happened in 1996. Here is an article. http://greenvilleonl...02091328474.htm

[kayman]

A219724, on Aug 18 2005, 02:40 PM, said:

I do not know if you guys read this or not, but this is not exactly a great way to get an Urban Core back on its feet. I think some corrupt official was skimming off of the top.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

2 words: PHIL GARY

That man is about as corrupt as most politcians in Montgomery.  Him and those 3 transit board members little deed of firing the transit manager after he was efficiently running the system.  I just want to kick all 4 of them dead in their asses.  

[jmanhsv]

I consider this one of those "scare tactics" that the state of Alabama and its municipalities use way too much. However, no matter what the situation is down in Birmingham, the state needs to invest in an adequate mass transit system for all of its cities, especially the Big 4. The state has plenty of money, but it's all going into "special projects" that never happen.

Though I have never seen a route map for MAX, I'm guessing they are "buses to nowhere",getting you from the ghetto to the ghetto, so that's why nobody rides on them. But Huntsville's transit system has operated for 15 years with this method, and it's in no danger of shutting down, which makes me think this situation is a bunch of bull.

[Southron]

jmanhsv is right, the state needs to adequately fund mass transit for the big 4.  The backward drones at ALDOT don't think about anything but building or widening highways.

[kayman]

The chairwoman of the Birmingham-Jefferson County Transit Authority was removed from her leadership position Wednesday.  This happened 4 days after board members said they were dissatisfied with her leadership and asked her to step down.

I swear Phil Gary is the reason why that board keeps having problems.  At the rate their going Birmingham would never have an adequate and efficient mass transit system.

Edited by Leonard23, 03 February 2006 - 04:34 PM.

[Shawn35816]

Yea, I agree. It seemed that this woman was destined to make things happen with mass transit in Birmingham, but it looks like they might have taken a step back. I do hope they get the transit issue fixed in Birmingham so the city can enjoy having the system instead of having it be a burden.

[kayman]

It's happening again:

BJCTA might be forced to cut services even more

I swear this region's negligence towards the poor and disabled is AMAZING.  Why can't the Jefferson County legislators vote to allow the BJCTA to be efficiently funded.  It is embarassing.   The people of this region needs to step up and vote some mofos out of office in Jefferson County.