106 replies to this topic

[Garris]

ArtInRuins, on Jun 16 2005, 08:46 PM, said:

Maybe what we need is more street level interaction with the plaza by the surrounding buildings... no one fronts the plaza in a meaningful way except the 7-11 and the CVS. Everything else is just offices, so there isn't any meaningful exchange between the plaza and the buildings, just buses and passengers.

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Precisely the correct solution to the Kennedy Center problem...

- Garris

[Frankie811]

Produce sold in Kennedy Plaza

http://www.locallygr...ondaymarket.php

[Citydweller]

I don't know about being in the minority but you are no weirdo. I will be attempting the next year to drum up support for bringing back the streetcar (not on Blackstone yet) to Providence. It has been done many places, it can be privately financed, and is much cheaper than full scale lightrail.

Nyuszi, on Jun 16 2005, 03:40 PM, said:

Literally every time I go down Blackstone, I wistfully think of what the trolley must have been like.  But I know I'm a weirdo and in the minority there.

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[Cotuit]

ArtInRuins, on Jun 16 2005, 10:46 PM, said:

Maybe what we need is more street level interaction with the plaza by the surrounding buildings... no one fronts the plaza in a meaningful way except the 7-11 and the CVS. Everything else is just offices, so there isn't any meaningful exchange between the plaza and the buildings, just buses and passengers.

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Garris, on Jun 17 2005, 12:05 AM, said:

Precisely the correct solution to the Kennedy Center problem...

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It's a sound urban strategy, but is it possible in Kennedy Plaza? The Plaza is ringed with buildings such as the Federal Buildings, City Hall, and the Superman Building. None of these structures are going to have Plaza level store fronts. 50 Kennedy Plaza has some retail within that at least advertises itself to the Plaza, but I don't see it having anything opening on the Plaza. There's also a number of loading docks and parking garage entrances fronting the Plaza. I'm not sure that anything other than CVS and 7-Eleven ever can front the Plaza. Finding a better use for the 7-Eleven spot could help, a restaurant that could have sidewalk seating, but I doubt anyone would want to open something like that at that location.

[scdavies1]

I absolutely agree with Artinruins that more street level interaction is needed in the plaza.  The farmer's market is one way to draw people in.

Re: light rail, I also don't think that its going to happen any time soon.  And frankly, I think we already have a great solution to the public transit/bus stigma -- the trolleys.  People love these; they're relatively enviro-friendly, attractive, historic ... I wish that RIPTA could convert many more routes to these and I think we would see ridership increase.  Of course if we had better stops that didn't make people feel like they were drug dealers or up to no good -- better signage, more coverage, etc.  (sometimes I really hate waiting for the bus).

[Cotuit]

I like the trolley concept, but I don't like the trolleys. The seats are not comfortable, there's that one seat with the wheel hump that everyone avoids, the ride is horrible, the suspension on them is non-existant, they can't run in the snow, and the wheelchair lifts are a constant problem.

I'd like to see a more modern looking, small, low-floor vehicle with some crazy paint job that makes people want to know what they are and where they're going. Comfortable seats, shorter headways, more routes... The lower floors will not only facilitate wheelchair boarding but will allow elderly people and people with young children and strollers to more easily board the buses.

[citygirl]

Nyuszi, on Jun 16 2005, 04:40 PM, said:

As someone earlier pointed out, the ridership is mostly people who are FORCED to take the bus, usually because they're on the bottom rung of the socioeconomic ladder.  Most people, at least subconsciously, view trams, trolleys, and undergrounds as "classier" than stinky old busses.  So, though I think the project would requiore an initial investment that RIPTA doesn't seem to have, it would probably be more profitable than the current one (not that that's saying much).

And, finally, I'm an East Sider (though a renter, so I have no voice in a lot of these matters) and I DREAM of having tracks through my neighborhood!  Literally every time I go down Blackstone, I wistfully think of what the trolley must have been like.  But I know I'm a weirdo and in the minority there.

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I, too, am an East Sider.  It took me weeks to discover that a bus actually runs along Elmgrove Avenue!  The bus stops are apparently hidden deliberately, no doubt to discourage use by the "loitering" bus riders.  The schedule is ridiculous -- it's like they're playing at being a real bus service.  It starts late, never runs on time, and ends while a lot of people are still trying to get home from work!  

I took the bus from the airport once, and I believe I was the only non-hotel worker on it!  It wasn't a terrible trip (for $1.25 it sure beat $35 for a taxi!) but it was only by luck that I made my connection at Kennedy Plaza.  Otherwise, I would have had to wait almost an hour for the next bus.

Parking --- that's all anyone in RI seems to get passionate about!

[Garris]

citygirl, on Jun 17 2005, 09:39 PM, said:

I, too, am an East Sider.  It took me weeks to discover that a bus actually runs along Elmgrove Avenue!  The bus stops are apparently hidden deliberately, no doubt to discourage use by the "loitering" bus riders. 

Yup, you're right.  My sister takes the Elmsgrove line to get to the JCC often, but it only runs in one direction!  A perfect example of RIPTA madness...  To go inbound, you have to do it from Blackstone.  So you can take the bus to Brown Stadium, the JCC, etc, but you just can't take it back  

citygirl, on Jun 17 2005, 09:39 PM, said:

The schedule is ridiculous -- it's like they're playing at being a real bus service.  It starts late, never runs on time, and ends while a lot of people are still trying to get home from work! 

Exactly, well said.  I'm on the East Side too, and just had to stop using RIPTA, since, if I had to work late, I had no easy way to get home without it taking like 2 hours of waiting.  Also, when commuting, I have no idea why they have many of their outbound buses scheduled to leave Kennedy Plaza like 2 minutes before their inbounds arrive.  How hard can it be to coordinate your outbounds leaving after most of your inbounds arrive?

- Garris

[citygirl]

Also, when commuting, I have no idea why they have many of their outbound buses scheduled to leave Kennedy Plaza like 2 minutes before their inbounds arrive.  How hard can it be to coordinate your outbounds leaving after most of your inbounds arrive?

- Garris
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Exactly!!!  And how hard could it be to coordinate with the inbound train schedules!  Intermodal transportation indeed!  I commute to Boston on the train and ride my bike to the station (where it has been repeatedly vandalized, I might add --- so much for security in the wake of 9/11 !!  But I digress) If it's raining or bad weather, I either have to walk or get someone to pick me up because the bus schedule is ludicrous!

[Frankie811]

http://www.projo.com...za.1c9fe31.html

[Frankie811]

Frankie811, on Jun 23 2005, 07:38 AM, said:

http://www.projo.com...za.1c9fe31.html

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I think I finally read a projo editorial that I completely agree with.

[Cotuit]

Quote

Rethink RIPTA, not plaza

Problem is, rethinking RIPTA is the furthest thing from anyone's mind on Smith Hill, which is where the money will come from to rethink it.

I don't know what the interpersonal relationships are between the mayors of Providence, Cranston, Warwick, East Providence, Pawtucket, Central Falls, and Newport (I'm assuming Laffey is the odd man out   ), but it would behoove them all to get together and have a transit summit. Then they can go up to Smith Hill, and hold the General Assembly's hands as they write legislation to fund and improve RIPTA.

[Baines]

Cotuit, on Jun 23 2005, 06:57 AM, said:

Problem is, rethinking RIPTA is the furthest thing from anyone's mind on Smith Hill, which is where the money will come from to rethink it.

I don't know what the interpersonal relationships are between the mayors of Providence, Cranston, Warwick, East Providence, Pawtucket, Central Falls, and Newport (I'm assuming Laffey is the odd man out  ), but it would behoove them all to get together and have a transit summit. Then they can go up to Smith Hill, and hold the General Assembly's hands as they write legislation to fund and improve RIPTA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Absolutely. But it goes back to the RI mentality. They and their constiuents se each city as separate..."I live in Cranston".

The challenge is to get people to see it as it is - Providence is the core of IT'S metro area that includes all adjacent communities and beyond.

I would sponsor a field trip to other cities to educate suburbanites that when people in other states say "Providence" they mean the entire metro.

[Garris]

Frankie811, on Jun 23 2005, 05:38 AM, said:

http://www.projo.com...za.1c9fe31.html

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The ProJo editorial section (again) nails an urbanism issue.  It was like reading a UP post!  So when is the ProJo going to do something about their parking lot downtown again?  

- Garris

[glassandsteel]

Garris, on Jun 23 2005, 06:22 PM, said:

So when is the ProJo going to do something about their parking lot downtown again? 

- Garris

When the people that care start paying the bills.

[quente]

City told to think and dream big in reinventing plaza

Although the city just spent $9.5 million in 2002 to transform Kennedy Plaza into an intermodal transportation hub, I think it's a good time to revisit how downtown has changed and how Kennedy Plaza can help sustain and enhance that change. Based on the article, it sounds like there were a lot of exciting ideas such as the inclusion of streetcars in the intermodal mix, looking toward European rather than regional models of urban development, and using the space for regular, open air markets.

Did anyone go to this meeting at the Biltmore? I'm curious if this effort will get off the ground.

[Cotuit]

I went, I don't have time to comment right now, but will soon.

[CtownMikey]

they should start with removing that street between KP and the ice rink and extend the park

[Cotuit]

CtownMikey, on Feb 28 2008, 02:53 PM, said:

they should start with removing that street between KP and the ice rink and extend the park

That was a top recommendation from the groups. I could see that happening relatively soon, a new home for the trolleys to stop is needed, and a new parking area for RIPTA staff who use that street for parking.

[quente]

CtownMikey, on Feb 28 2008, 02:53 PM, said:

they should start with removing that street between KP and the ice rink and extend the park

Cotuit, on Feb 28 2008, 03:03 PM, said:

That was a top recommendation from the groups. I could see that happening relatively soon, a new home for the trolleys to stop is needed, and a new parking area for RIPTA staff who use that street for parking.

That would be a big improvement.

And while we're talking about parking, would it be possible to construct an underground parking garage (like the one at the Boston Common) to keep RIPTA staff and others from parking on the bricks along the skating rink? I'm not sure if it's feasible because of 1) cost and 2) ground water but it would be a nice amenity for those who want to go to City Hall, the rink, the Post Office or any of the other businesses in the area.