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[urbanvb]

Developers look off the beaten path to meet local condo craze
By BATTINTO BATTS, The Virginian-Pilot
© June 12, 2005
Last updated: 8:14 PM


NORFOLK — Seeing an opportunity where others might not is a niche Lee Chepy has carved as a developer.

Park Place, an emerging transitional neighborhood on the fringe of downtown, is a classic example of that, Chepy said. He began buying vacant apartment properties there last year and is now refurbishing them as condominiums for sale.

For Chepy, it presented a chance to get into the region’s booming condo development market. And with the help of the Norfolk Redevelopment and Housing Authority, it provides a chance at homeownership for buyers who can’t afford a $500,000 unit with sweeping views of downtown or the Chesapeake Bay.

Chepy plans to rehab 50 units in Park Place and sell them for about $100,000.

“It is a lot easier to be a big fish in a little pond,” said Chepy, president of Metro Housing Group. “I can’t compete with those other guys.”

Dozens of condominium developments of various sizes are either under construction, in the planning stages or being talked about throughout Hampton Roads. Although it would be difficult, if not impossible, to calculate how many additional units could be coming into the market, it is easily well into the several hundreds.

A few of the major ones:

nThe Granby Tower complex planned for the intersection of Granby Street and Brambleton Avenue in downtown Norfolk: 309 units

nA condominium development atop the planned Westin Hotel at Town Center in Virginia Beach: 104 units.

nPoint Chesapeake, a complex to be built where the Duck In stands: 158 units.

Priced between $250,000 and $2 million, the developers say they have received considerable interest from prospective buyers.

For last year, the number of building permits issued for condominium developments was up by 22.6 percent over 2003, according to a report by the Old Dominion University Center for Real Estate and Economic Development. That 2004 number is 63.3 percent higher than 2002, the report says.

The pace has continued this year, local real estate experts say, with more than 400 permits issued in Hampton Roads through the end of April, according to statistics compiled by the Residential Data Bank, a local real estate research firm. This includes the Peninsula as well.


The local binge mirrors a national trend.

According to a report last year by the National Multi Housing Council, the costs of sprawl have caused community leaders to embrace the benefits of higher-density, mixed-use developments. These developments reduce the need for communities to extend infrastructure, such as water, sewage and public safety, farther out, which can be costly.

And while the idea is gaining acceptance among local governments, the demand for high-density housing will continue to grow over the next decade, the report says. Among the factors cited are the changing housing needs of baby boomers, an influx of immigrants and a demand for affordable housing.

Condominiums are also cheaper to build or convert, developers said, especially when the developments are close to each other, like in Chepy’s case in Park Place.

“What would cost me $140,000 or so to do in new construction, I can buy and renovate a condo for $90,000,” Chepy said. “By doing 50 units in one area I can take my construction crews from one site to another and keep construction costs down.”


So why now in Hampton Roads? It’s simple economics, local real estate experts said. There are not enough houses to keep up with the demand. That is why single-family home prices continue to rise.

Condominium complexes and other multi family dwellings such as apartments and townhouses , which allow a developer to build more units on a smaller space, have become a popular alternative.

The majority of the people who are buying these condos are moving from other areas in Hampton Roads, local experts said. But some are coming from out of state.

Richard “Tuck” Bowie thinks people are attracted to the area’s climate and lifestyle.

“The quality of life here is outstanding,” said Bowie, president of Terry Peterson Residential, a partner in the Point Chesapeake development. “There aren’t really hot summers, and there aren’t really cold winters. And look at where we are located.

“This area has been growing dramatically,” he said. “We have a strong military presence, and I firmly believe when these people retire, they will want to stay here.”

Many of the prospective buyers are empty nesters with large disposable incomes who don’t want to care for a yard. These are the people most likely to buy the luxury, high-end units at Point Chesapeake or at Harbor Walk, a complex in Norfolk’s Ocean View area. Units at Harbor Walk are priced from the high $300,000s to the $400,000s.

“The boomer generation is thinking about retirement, and they want a lifestyle that is less onerous on them,” said Jeffrey J. Wermers, president of Wermers Development Inc. “They want something that is maintenance free. You hear that all the time in marketing. They say, 'I don’t want to paint, and I don’t want to cut my yard or fix things up.’ ”


That is what led Brian and Catherine Hodson to sell their home in Ghent and move to Harbor Walk nearly a year ago. The Hodsons wanted a smaller home close to the water and their boat.

“Before I had a short commute to work and a long commute to the boat,” said Brian Hodson, 58, an Old Dominion University employee. “Now I have a shorter commute to the boat and a longer commute to work.”

complete story

[vdogg]

guynvb, on Jun 13 2005, 06:02 AM, said:

nA condominium development atop the planned Westin Hotel at Town Center in Virginia Beach: 104 units.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wish the pilot could make up it's mind about this project. Now it's back to 104 after it was just raised to 120?

[rusthebuss]

vdogg, on Jun 13 2005, 10:42 AM, said:

I wish the pilot could make up it's mind about this project. Now it's back to 104 after it was just raised to 120?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We won't find out till the project is actually started construction. The HH project is now a 15 stories and we were told its was 17 stories

Edited by rusthebuss, 13 June 2005 - 09:46 AM.

[mistermetaj]

rusthebuss, on Jun 14 2005, 10:37 AM, said:

Well this area is just starting to look beyond the military as a cash cow now. Once this area becomes more of a  business haven you might see things like this appear in the area. Just like the possibilities of pro sports to the area, this will be the production of the great businesses settling into this area!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, but our infastructure is so far behind the standard for normal cities that we are not going to get out of the military's grasp for yeras and years to come.  The military still crowds our ports which definitely makes businesses look away and we dont have any major highway connections to any major cities except richmond.  We need to fix our infastructure and then pro-sports and great businesses will come.

[urbanfan]

mistermetaj, on Jun 14 2005, 01:55 PM, said:

Yeah, but our infastructure is so far behind the standard for normal cities that we are not going to get out of the military's grasp for yeras and years to come.  The military still crowds our ports which definitely makes businesses look away and we dont have any major highway connections to any major cities except richmond.  We need to fix our infastructure and then pro-sports and great businesses will come.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually we have no connection to Major cities in the Northeast.  I-64 passes directly through Louisville Kentucky, St. Louis, Mo. and hopefully the stupidly named I-70 will eventually be named I-64, which will pretty much put us in line with Kansas City, Mo. and Denver, Co.  But I understand where you are coming from.  Being on the coast has it's disadvantages.  But, remember  San Fransisco really has no direct access to Interstate 5 nor does San Diego, doesn't seem to hurt business much.  It's all about marketing, and our area has spent more time bickering between each other that we've missed out on alot of opportunities.  But things are turning now.  With the addition of the fourth cargo port, we will surpass New York City as the largest cargo area on the East Coast, second only to L.A.  I can garuntee that its turning heads and business see this area as a gold mine waiting to happen.  The port will be the future of this area, bringing fortune 500's with it.

[rusthebuss]

urbanfan, on Jun 14 2005, 02:50 PM, said:

Actually we have no connection to Major cities in the Northeast.  I-64 passes directly through Louisville Kentucky, St. Louis, Mo. and hopefully the stupidly named I-70 will eventually be named I-64, which will pretty much put us in line with Kansas City, Mo. and Denver, Co.  But I understand where you are coming from.  Being on the coast has it's disadvantages.  But, remember  San Fransisco really has no direct access to Interstate 5 nor does San Diego, doesn't seem to hurt business much.  It's all about marketing, and our area has spent more time bickering between each other that we've missed out on alot of opportunities.  But things are turning now.  With the addition of the fourth cargo port, we will surpass New York City as the largest cargo area on the East Coast, second only to L.A.  I can garuntee that its turning heads and business see this area as a gold mine waiting to happen.  The port will be the future of this area, bringing fortune 500's with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really hope that you are right. Imagine what our population will be in twenty years.

[Greekboy80]

urbanfan, on Jun 14 2005, 12:50 PM, said:

Actually we have no connection to Major cities in the Northeast.  I-64 passes directly through Louisville Kentucky, St. Louis, Mo. and hopefully the stupidly named I-70 will eventually be named I-64, which will pretty much put us in line with Kansas City, Mo. and Denver, Co.  But I understand where you are coming from.  Being on the coast has it's disadvantages.  But, remember  San Fransisco really has no direct access to Interstate 5 nor does San Diego, doesn't seem to hurt business much.  It's all about marketing, and our area has spent more time bickering between each other that we've missed out on alot of opportunities.  But things are turning now.  With the addition of the fourth cargo port, we will surpass New York City as the largest cargo area on the East Coast, second only to L.A.  I can garuntee that its turning heads and business see this area as a gold mine waiting to happen.  The port will be the future of this area, bringing fortune 500's with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm with Urbanfan. Maserk(sp?) is gonna be HUGE for this area. its gonna being tons of new busniess to the area. we just have to invest in some property and sit back and watch. give us 10 years, we will rival Charlotte as they are today.

[hoobo]

urbanfan, on Jun 14 2005, 11:50 AM, said:

Actually we have no connection to Major cities in the Northeast.  I-64 passes directly through Louisville Kentucky, St. Louis, Mo. and hopefully the stupidly named I-70 will eventually be named I-64, which will pretty much put us in line with Kansas City, Mo. and Denver, Co.  But I understand where you are coming from.  Being on the coast has it's disadvantages.  But, remember  San Fransisco really has no direct access to Interstate 5 nor does San Diego, doesn't seem to hurt business much.  It's all about marketing, and our area has spent more time bickering between each other that we've missed out on alot of opportunities.  But things are turning now.  With the addition of the fourth cargo port, we will surpass New York City as the largest cargo area on the East Coast, second only to L.A.  I can garuntee that its turning heads and business see this area as a gold mine waiting to happen.  The port will be the future of this area, bringing fortune 500's with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, the 5 runs through downtown San Diego.  The 15 also ends there (it goes to Vegas then to Salt Lake City).  The 8 goes to Tuscon where it connects with the 10.  San Fran is on I-80 whereever that goes.  Anyway, HR would benefit if US 17 turned into a limited access highway (not sure if that is what they're doing) all the way to Route 64 in NC.  I know Route 64 is limited access between I-95 and Raleigh and I think it is up to Williamston where it meets US 17.  That would give HR a direct limited access connection to Raleigh instead of the current 58-95 route.  Of course, 460 is also a priority and would benefit the state if improved all the way to Roanoke.

As for the ports, HR has quite a ways to go to catch up to NYC/NJ.  The main advantages for HR is there are no environmental issues with dredging the Bay channels and Craney Island is a certified and expandable spoil disposal site.  I think that this year HR has passed Charleston in TEUs to place 5th in the US.  Here's a link to a pdf table of 2004 North American port stats from the American Association of Port Authorities:

2004 Port Stats

But I think I'm getting off topic now.

Edited by hoobo, 14 June 2005 - 03:38 PM.

[rusthebuss]

hoobo, on Jun 14 2005, 05:38 PM, said:

Actually, the 5 runs through downtown San Diego.  The 15 also ends there (it goes to Vegas then to Salt Lake City).  The 8 goes to Tuscon where it connects with the 10.  San Fran is on I-80 whereever that goes.  Anyway, HR would benefit if US 17 turned into a limited access highway (not sure if that is what they're doing) all the way to Route 64 in NC.  I know Route 64 is limited access between I-95 and Raleigh and I think it is up to Williamston where it meets US 17.  That would give HR a direct limited access connection to Raleigh instead of the current 58-95 route.  Of course, 460 is also a priority and would benefit the state if improved all the way to Roanoke.

As for the ports, HR has quite a ways to go to catch up to NYC/NJ.  The main advantages for HR is there are no environmental issues with dredging the Bay channels and Craney Island is a certified and expandable spoil disposal site.  I think that this year HR has passed Charleston in TEUs to place 5th in the US.  Here's a link to a pdf table of 2004 North American port stats from the American Association of Port Authorities:

2004 Port Stats

But I think I'm getting off topic now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I remember that somewhere they said we did pass Charleston, SC.

[urbanfan]

hoobo, on Jun 14 2005, 05:38 PM, said:

Actually, the 5 runs through downtown San Diego.  The 15 also ends there (it goes to Vegas then to Salt Lake City).  The 8 goes to Tuscon where it connects with the 10.  San Fran is on I-80 whereever that goes.  Anyway, HR would benefit if US 17 turned into a limited access highway (not sure if that is what they're doing) all the way to Route 64 in NC.  I know Route 64 is limited access between I-95 and Raleigh and I think it is up to Williamston where it meets US 17.  That would give HR a direct limited access connection to Raleigh instead of the current 58-95 route.  Of course, 460 is also a priority and would benefit the state if improved all the way to Roanoke.

As for the ports, HR has quite a ways to go to catch up to NYC/NJ.  The main advantages for HR is there are no environmental issues with dredging the Bay channels and Craney Island is a certified and expandable spoil disposal site.  I think that this year HR has passed Charleston in TEUs to place 5th in the US.  Here's a link to a pdf table of 2004 North American port stats from the American Association of Port Authorities:

2004 Port Stats

But I think I'm getting off topic now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rember though that NYC/NJ do not deal with containerized cargo, this is why thier tonage is so much more.  We do deal with containerized cargo and still do 1.8 millon teu's.  This makes us the second largest port on the east coast, and with the addition of the fourth port, the estimate is that we will take over new York.  That is only an estimate.  They assume this because New York cannot handle the super container ships that are about to come on line soon.  The new port here will, which will likely mean that New York will loose some of its business.  While Hampton Roads grows.

[urbanfan]

hoobo, on Jun 14 2005, 05:38 PM, said:

Actually, the 5 runs through downtown San Diego.  The 15 also ends there (it goes to Vegas then to Salt Lake City).  The 8 goes to Tuscon where it connects with the 10.  San Fran is on I-80 whereever that goes.  Anyway, HR would benefit if US 17 turned into a limited access highway (not sure if that is what they're doing) all the way to Route 64 in NC.  I know Route 64 is limited access between I-95 and Raleigh and I think it is up to Williamston where it meets US 17.  That would give HR a direct limited access connection to Raleigh instead of the current 58-95 route.  Of course, 460 is also a priority and would benefit the state if improved all the way to Roanoke.

As for the ports, HR has quite a ways to go to catch up to NYC/NJ.  The main advantages for HR is there are no environmental issues with dredging the Bay channels and Craney Island is a certified and expandable spoil disposal site.  I think that this year HR has passed Charleston in TEUs to place 5th in the US.  Here's a link to a pdf table of 2004 North American port stats from the American Association of Port Authorities:

2004 Port Stats


But I think I'm getting off topic now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are right about 5 running through San Diego, but I was using San Diego as an example because it is pretty much at the end of I-5.  Much like we are at the end of I-64

Edited by urbanfan, 15 June 2005 - 06:48 AM.

[okinawatyphoon]

urbanfan, on Jun 15 2005, 09:44 PM, said:

Rember though that NYC/NJ do not deal with containerized cargo, this is why thier tonage is so much more.  We do deal with containerized cargo and still do 1.8 millon teu's.  This makes us the second largest port on the east coast, and with the addition of the fourth port, the estimate is that we will take over new York.  That is only an estimate.  They assume this because New York cannot handle the super container ships that are about to come on line soon.  The new port here will, which will likely mean that New York will loose some of its business.  While Hampton Roads grows.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yup, I really believe the port(s) is our ticket to economic prosperity. So much more business will come to this area once the new ports are completed. Wouldn't it be nice if Maersk relocated its headquarters here in a 50 story tower? haha...who knows??...

[hoobo]

urbanfan, on Jun 15 2005, 05:44 AM, said:

Rember though that NYC/NJ do not deal with containerized cargo, this is why thier tonage is so much more.  We do deal with containerized cargo and still do 1.8 millon teu's.  This makes us the second largest port on the east coast, and with the addition of the fourth port, the estimate is that we will take over new York.  That is only an estimate.  They assume this because New York cannot handle the super container ships that are about to come on line soon.  The new port here will, which will likely mean that New York will loose some of its business.  While Hampton Roads grows.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The stats show NY/NJ handling 4.5 MM TEUs.  But anyway, like you said, they can't grow.  There's no space and environmental concerns will cut into their dredging schedule and will prevent them from dredging deeper for Post Pana-Max ships.  But to bring all this on topic:  will longshoremen be able to afford Granby Tower condos?  Discuss.

Edited by hoobo, 15 June 2005 - 02:44 PM.

[sugoiben]

hoobo, on Jun 15 2005, 04:44 PM, said:

But to bring all this on topic:  will longshoremen be able to afford Granby Tower condos?  Discuss.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know, that's a good point.  Thinking about just the high end of what's available.  The top end units are going for what?  Like a million, 2 million buckaroos?   Can't you get one of those beachfront mansions in Croatan or up
on the lynnhaven bay for that much?  There really a demand for that level of condo in this area?

[rusthebuss]

sugoiben, on Jun 15 2005, 05:53 PM, said:

You know, that's a good point.  Thinking about just the high end of what's available.  The top end units are going for what?  Like a million, 2 million buckaroos?   Can't you get one of those beachfront mansions in Croatan or up
on the lynnhaven bay for that much?  There really a demand for that level of condo in this area?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually they are saying they can't build those high price condos fast enough. We are very behind on building enough housing in the area.

[sugoiben]

rusthebuss, on Jun 15 2005, 06:42 PM, said:

Actually they are saying they can't build those high price condos fast enough. We are very behind on building enough housing in the area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Housing in general I don't doubt.  Everywhere is apparently.  Demand for homes, condos especially, is off the charts these days.  But million dollar condos?  In an area that took how long to woo a Nordstrom?   For the longest time all you heard about the reasons the region gets passed over for so many things was that incomes were too low.  There wasn't enough upper class rich guys with money to burn to justify putting such and such boutique in the area.  Did the Navy give everyone raises all of a sudden or something, that it seems like suddenly they can't make million dollars condos fast enough?  Frank Batten and Missy Elliott can't be buying em all.

Edited by sugoiben, 15 June 2005 - 06:14 PM.

[vdogg]

sugoiben, on Jun 15 2005, 07:52 PM, said:

Housing in general I don't doubt.  Everywhere is apparently.  Demand for homes, condos especially, is off the charts these days.  But million dollar condos?  In an area that took how long to woo a Nordstrom?   For the longest time all you heard about the reasons the region gets passed over for so many things was that incomes were too long.  There was enough upper class rich guys with money to burn to justify putting such and such boutique in the area.  Did the navy give everyone raises all of a sudden or something, that it seems like suddenly they can't make million dollars condos fast enough?  Frank Batten and Missy Elliott can't be buying em all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think all the developers just assumed that there wouldn't be a market in this area because of the military. I don't think they did a lot of in depth research on it. Now they're seeing projects like Granby almost selling out over night and they're realizing the potential of this area and are now putting forth the effort to research the market some more.

[okinawatyphoon]

vdogg, on Jun 16 2005, 08:56 AM, said:

I think all the developers just assumed that there wouldn't be a market in this area because of the military. I don't think they did a lot of in depth research on it. Now they're seeing projects like Granby almost selling out over night and they're realizing the potential of this area and are now putting forth the effort to research the market some more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah I sure hope that's the case. I would hate to see this bubble burst before it grew bigger....

[urbanvb]

okinawatyphoon, on Jun 15 2005, 09:01 PM, said:

Yeah I sure hope that's the case. I would hate to see this bubble burst before it grew bigger....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really doubt the housing bubble is anywhere close to here. The demand for housing (even minus the high priced condos) is very strong here. And there is only so much room left to build so it is driving everything. I am originally from a small town in NC but land just north of there (prolly 30 mins south of Suffolk) and my Dad was telling me land in rural Gates County is even starting to go up. The sprawl is headed even into the rural areas!! And when I say rural think no Walmart within 30mins either north or south LOL.

[ace707]

guynvb, on Jun 15 2005, 08:19 PM, said:

I really doubt the housing bubble is anywhere close to here. The demand for housing (even minus the high priced condos) is very strong here. And there is only so much room left to build so it is driving everything. I am originally from a small town in NC but land just north of there (prolly 30 mins south of Suffolk) and my Dad was telling me land in rural Gates County is even starting to go up. The sprawl is headed even into the rural areas!! And when I say rural think no Walmart within 30mins either north or south LOL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To me that's good and bad. Good 'cause development generates taxes and yada yada yada. Bad because "virgin" land is being developed and we all know that developable land isn't unlimited