608 replies to this topic

[eltron]

I have to say that I am pretty damn impressed with the public transit system in Rhode Island. Partly due to our small size, but its still pretty cool that we have the only statewide transit system, buses or no.

Is it perfect? Absolutely not, but it meets a need and is well positioned for future need within the state, particularly if the commuter rail plans to South County are fully implemented and we start to modify bus routes to operate off that main north/south trunk route.

I think its kindof a red herring to focus on increasing ridership per se at this point. Improving service, amenities, comfort, usability should certainly be improved, and I think ridership with follow, but I hope its not the main driving force. We'll never get to a self-sustaining level. There probably isn't a single public transit system in the country that is solvent and self-supporting, and RIPTA should be no exception and be held to impossible standards by the legislature.

Also, as others have said, I think ridership will naturally increase with a change in cost and convenience. As all of the new development in town continues to mature, it will both cost more and be harder to find parking, thereby increasing the convenience and benefit, and in turn ridership, of RIPTA more or less naturally.

[Recchia]

eltron, on Aug 4 2005, 11:46 AM, said:

Also, as others have said, I think ridership will naturally increase with a change in cost and convenience. As all of the new development in town continues to mature, it will both cost more and be harder to find parking, thereby increasing the convenience and benefit, and in turn ridership, of RIPTA more or less naturally.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I sure hope so.  Hopefully in the future we won't even need programs like Express Travel, because it will actually be more convenient and less costly to use RIPTA.

[Nyuszi]

I think everyone's already hit on most of my issues.  I now ride RIPTA sporadically, though I tried and tried to use it as my main transportation.  But just so I can say something constructive first...

One of my biggest issues in the past has been bus staggering.  For example, I most frequently use the Wayland Sq stop, which is now served by 3 different routes.  For a while there, during peak morning hours, they all came within 10 minutes of each other (sometimes within 2-3!) and then not again for 20-30 minutes.  However, today I was pleasantly surprised to find a nice stagger.

I agree that better signage would be excellent.  MBTA introduced this along its bus routes about 3 years ago - all stops have at least route numbers and the printed schedule, "major" stops will include a route map and the scheduled arrival times for that specific stop.  The weird thing is, the bus stop for #42 across from the Modern Diner actually has this kind of stop-specific, math-free schedule posted, along with a pleasant little shelter w/ bench.  How random is that?

I'd like to keep parts of the hub & spoke model, but add more wheel/circumference lines to connect neighborhoods and/or cities other than Providence.

And I also agree that the busses need to arrive ON TIME.  Even one single extra bus per route can make this happen.  When I lived in Watertown, MA and used MBTA, I often got on at Newton Corner, the end of a number of lines, so while I waited for my bus, I could watch the patterns of the other busses.  If a route arrived/departed every 10 minutes, the pattern would be like Bus 1 arrives 3:10, Bus 0 departs 3:15, bus 2 arrives 3:20, Bus 1 departs 3:25.

And I don't think anyone has mentioned the lack of a system map!  How ridiculous is that?  Having no system map available makes it really hard for a person to take the bus to an unfamiliar location.  I've mentioned before that RIPTA.com's "Trip Planner" has a number of bugs in it, but it's also hard to use because there's just a random assortment of alphabetically listed stop names and I never have any clue which one is nearest to where I want to ultimately end up.

And, finally, to cap off my negative ranting.  RIPTA actually DOES suck and I'm not kidding.  Yes, everyone complains about their transportation system, even if it's pretty good, but that doesn't make RIPTA good.  Just look upthread at the number of people who say they are anti-car and/or pro-public transport, yet find RIPTA totally lacking and opt for another option.  (I'm in that group, I bike/walk or drive, depending on weather)  If that isn't proof that this transportation system is majorly flawed, I don't know what would be.

whew, now I've said my piece  

[runawayjim]

Nyuszi, on Aug 4 2005, 02:04 PM, said:

One of my biggest issues in the past has been bus staggering.  For example, I most frequently use the Wayland Sq stop, which is now served by 3 different routes.  For a while there, during peak morning hours, they all came within 10 minutes of each other (sometimes within 2-3!) and then not again for 20-30 minutes.  However, today I was pleasantly surprised to find a nice stagger.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

does this happen at every stop once they get like that or will the next bus wait 15-20 min to leave?

i've seen the buses get this way (i've never taken ripta, but i have seen the buses around).  that's the one problem with buses is that the first bus can go and get held up and the second one can be on time but right behind the late first bus.  will the late bus then take the new times or do they all just go like they normally would?

[Cotuit]

Nyuszi, on Aug 4 2005, 02:04 PM, said:

And I don't think anyone has mentioned the lack of a system map!  How ridiculous is that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apparently there fianlly is a new system map available in Kennedy Plaza (I believe CVS sponsored it). I haven't got one yet, because I hate to go into Kennedy Plaza.

I do have a system map from 2000 which I was told was created because of the Kennedy Plaza redesign. The people at the Convention Center information area just happened to have one floating around that they gave us (this was in 2003).

[Nyuszi]

Cotuit, on Aug 4 2005, 01:41 PM, said:

Apparently there fianlly is a new system map available in Kennedy Plaza (I believe CVS sponsored it). I haven't got one yet, because I hate to go into Kennedy Plaza.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Woo hoo!  

Quote

does this happen at every stop once they get like that or will the next bus wait 15-20 min to leave?

Yeah, it's actually built into the schedule.  For example, my trip home options this evening consist of the 78 leaving Tunnel at 6:09, the 35 at 6:14, or the 40 leaving at 6:19, followed by a lag of nearly 40 minutes before the next round.

Of course, maybe I'm actually complaining about a luxury that other people don't really have - 3 different routes that serve my main stops...

Oh yeah, I just remembered my other complaint - the transfer policy. (You can only tansfer between most lines at KP, or a few other spots like Tunnel & Thayer)  Though now that I think about it, that's probably pretty standard.  In every other city, I've always bought a monthly pass and, because I'm insane about efficiency like that, found my own best routes that often involved a couple block walk between two non-intersecting lines to avoid annoying transfer situations that took me out of my way or forced me to wait unreasonable amounts of time.

[Recchia]

Yeah, RIPTA does have a system map, I got one at the info window in the "intermodal" center.  It's actually really nice and has a frequency of service chart on it too.

[Garris]

Recchia, on Aug 4 2005, 06:48 PM, said:

Yeah, RIPTA does have a system map, I got one at the info window in the "intermodal" center.  It's actually really nice and has a frequency of service chart on it too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is this the same as the "old" (designed about 2 or 3 years ago) one, or is it new?  I have the "old" one, and it's great.

- Garris

[Recchia]

Garris, on Aug 5 2005, 12:16 AM, said:

Is this the same as the "old" (designed about 2 or 3 years ago) one, or is it new?  I have the "old" one, and it's great.

- Garris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ehh I want to say its newer than that.  It's green with a bus on the cover?

[Cotuit]

ProJo editorial about RIPTAs board.

[Garris]

Recchia, on Aug 5 2005, 04:07 AM, said:

Ehh I want to say its newer than that.  It's green with a bus on the cover?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yup.  Is that the new one or old one?

- Garris

[Cotuit]

Garris, on Aug 5 2005, 10:23 AM, said:

Yup.  Is that the new one or old one?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to the newsletter I get from RIPTA, it's new. But I haven't actually seen it yet myself.

[Recchia]

From the Projo Editorial:

Quote

Yet that logic seemed missing in Governor Carcieri's latest round of RIPTA board nominees. (This may become moot, of course, if a proposal to make RIPTA part of the state Department of Transportation comes to fruition.)

We have no reason to question the nominees' integrity or business ability. And we may be wrong that they are not regular customers on the RIPTA buses. But it seems unlikely that an accounting executive living in Coventry or corporate lawyer from East Greenwich boards the bus with any regularity. The same goes for the investment manager living in Barrington. Yet all were nominated for RIPTA's board.

Okay, I see the author's point, but if we want RIPTA to be attractive to "executives" and "corporate lawyers", then it might be good to get some of their input....I think.  On the other hand, having people on the board who ride the bus frequently would be better candidates to identify and fix the problems that currently exist with RIPTA.

[TheAnk]

The Atwells 26 line stops running @ 6:30PM.. I think thats why no one takes it.. They have really bad scheduling.. I see people waiting at the bus stops by me for 1/2 to hour waiting after 6:30, and the bus never comes.. Poor management I guess.

[Recchia]

TheAnk, on Aug 5 2005, 11:18 AM, said:

The Atwells 26 line stops running @ 6:30PM.. I think thats why no one takes it.. They have really bad scheduling.. I see people waiting at the bus stops by me for 1/2 to hour waiting after 6:30, and the bus never comes.. Poor management I guess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is pretty ridiculous.  I mean I guess the green line makes up for it after that time, but still, the green line doesn't go up into Mt. Pleasant like the 26 does.

[Nyuszi]

Cotuit, on Aug 5 2005, 09:31 AM, said:

According to the newsletter I get from RIPTA, it's new. But I haven't actually seen it yet myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you know if they will they be adding it to the website as well?  I didn't even realize there was an old one because, when I didn't see one available on the website (the System Map link just gives a listing of all lines that go through a particular city) I just assumed there wasn't one anywhere.

[bikerdriver]

Actually, today, when I took the bus, 4 fairly well-dressed men got off at the White Church bus stop in Barrington, they could well have been investment managers. And I've also seen (not today) a couple of people carrying laptops, as well as some obvious academics who got some technical papers out and started reading them.

Based on the half-dozen or so trips I have taken so far, I am dubious about the claim that only lower-class people take the bus. It seems to me that it's a real mix of people of all social conditions. The attitude "this person is an investment manager living in Barrington, therefore does not take the bus" might well be prejudiced.

[pdxstreetcar]

I think a small network of the major bus routes (based on high ridership or major travel corridors) should be upgraded and marketed as "frequent service" with service frequent enough that schedules are not needed, low floor buses, more bus shelters along the route, service from 5am - 1am. Perhaps these could use articulated buses.

The routes I was thinking of were:
20-Elmwood, 99-N. Main, 29-Broadway, 31-Cranston, 57-Smith, 26-Atwells, 42-Hope plus maybe a new route along I-95 running south serving Cranston, the Airport, Warwick, Warwick Malls, East Greenwich, Wickford and ending at URI (sort of a combination of the 66, 12 and others).

This would be an easy to ride group of routes which would increase ridership.  It would be similar to the "Frequent Service" system in Portland which was implemented for very little money...

http://www.trimet.or...uentservice.htm

TriMet said:

"TriMet's Frequent Service bus and MAX lines run so often, you don't really need a schedule: every 15 minutes or better during the day, every day.

A convenient schedule is just the beginning
There's more to Frequent Service than the convenient schedule: These lines are the first to get enhancements and rider perks such as air conditioning, Transit Tracker™ shelter displays, bus stop upgrades, roadway improvements and more-making your trips easier, faster and more comfortable than ever before.

Comfortable and accessible waiting areas at stops and shelters
Many Frequent Service stops have benches, shelters, lighting and other amenities that make catching the bus safer, more comfortable and more convenient. We're also improving nearby sidewalks, trails, bike paths and crossings so it's easier to get to your stop.

Transit Tracker signs with real-time arrival countdowns
At MAX stations and busy bus shelters, we've installed Transit Tracker signs that show an arrival countdown based on the actual location of your bus or train. That means you can run another errand, grab a cup of coffee or wait inside-without worrying about missing your ride.

Air-conditioned, low-floor buses for easy boarding and a comfy ride
For your comfort, all MAX trains and Frequent Service buses are air conditioned, with low floors for easy curb-level boarding. They have anti-slip flooring, tinted panoramic windows, and wider aisles and doors. On our newest buses, you'll enjoy more comfortable seats and bright, colorful interior designs.

Signal priority and roadway improvements help buses stay on time
Frequent Service buses are given traffic signal priority, using a wireless system that holds green lights a few seconds longer to allow a bus to go through when it's behind schedule. Curb extensions reduce the number of times your bus must merge into traffic, and bus-only lanes help keep you moving through congested intersections.

New signs, schedules and route maps at every stop
We're posting schedules and route maps at every stop along Frequent Service routes. So no matter where you are, you'll be able to see when the next bus is scheduled to arrive. Plus, we're replacing older signs with new ones that are easier to see and read."

[Recchia]

pdxstreetcar, on Aug 6 2005, 10:36 PM, said:

I think a small network of the major bus routes (based on high ridership or major travel corridors) should be upgraded and marketed as "frequent service" with service frequent enough that schedules are not needed, low floor buses, more bus shelters along the route, service from 5am - 1am. Perhaps these could use articulated buses.

The routes I was thinking of were:
20-Elmwood, 99-N. Main, 29-Broadway, 31-Cranston, 57-Smith, 26-Atwells, 42-Hope plus maybe a new route along I-95 running south serving Cranston, the Airport, Warwick, Warwick Malls, East Greenwich, Wickford and ending at URI (sort of a combination of the 66, 12 and others).

This would be an easy to ride group of routes which would increase ridership.  It would be similar to the "Frequent Service" system in Portland which was implemented for very little money...

http://www.trimet.or...uentservice.htm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We sure could learn alot from Portland.   I like this idea a lot.  I would throw the 11 City Line bus in there too for frequent service.  The I-95 route idea would be good for now until the commuter rail is fully up and running.

[Cotuit]

I believe the 40 new buses that RIPTA is receiving this fall will be low-floor.