320 replies to this topic

[masons_dad1]

Aporkalypse, on Aug 28 2006, 10:31 PM, said:

Anybody that would pay $600 for a top tier room at an Embassy Suites has too much money.  It's not exactly the Venetian or the Four Seasons.

Well just who are these people staying in NWA hotels? This isn't Vegas so we don't have any casinos and this isn't New York so we don't have Broadway. So are they corporate executives and wealthy entrepeneurs who have money to blow or can write-off their expenses and let the shareholders pay the bill? In that case signing a multi-million dollar deal with Wal-Mart may be worth $600 a night.

[Mith242]

masons_dad1, on Aug 28 2006, 11:04 PM, said:

Well just who are these people staying in NWA hotels? This isn't Vegas so we don't have any casinos and this isn't New York so we don't have Broadway. So are they corporate executives and wealthy entrepeneurs who have money to blow or can write-off their expenses and let the shareholders pay the bill? In that case signing a multi-million dollar deal with Wal-Mart may be worth $600 a night.

That's my guess as to the $600 a night.

[nj829]

The main reason hotels charge so much for those suites is that they are intended for upgrades for VVIP's, and not just for the general public, so to avoid them being used for purposes other than the VVIP purpose, the rate is put on them to make sure that if someone rents the room, they can afford it and are not going to just trash the room like the regular rooms.  Whenever celebrities are in town to visit Wal-Mart (which happens weekly), they usually are the ones put in the suites at the request of the vendor bringing them to the area.  Maybe once a month do the suites actually get charged to be used, and usually, it is a lower rate than what the article lists for rates, but still substancial enough that John Smith isn't just going to call and book it for him and his 6 buddies to trash.

[mzweig]

nj829, on Aug 29 2006, 09:23 AM, said:

The main reason hotels charge so much for those suites is that they are intended for upgrades for VVIP's, and not just for the general public, so to avoid them being used for purposes other than the VVIP purpose, the rate is put on them to make sure that if someone rents the room, they can afford it and are not going to just trash the room like the regular rooms.  Whenever celebrities are in town to visit Wal-Mart (which happens weekly), they usually are the ones put in the suites at the request of the vendor bringing them to the area.  Maybe once a month do the suites actually get charged to be used, and usually, it is a lower rate than what the article lists for rates, but still substancial enough that John Smith isn't just going to call and book it for him and his 6 buddies to trash.

There is plenty of room in the Fayetteville market (and I am not throwing Rogers and Bentonville into this market) for a nice hotel--or more than one nice hotel.  One of the problems with this area is everything is aimed at the middle of the market.  Hampton Inns and Days Inns are not nice hotels.  That said, a Four Seasons may be over the top.  By nice, I mean hotels that charge between $160-$300 a night for a really nice room, all-cotton sheets, maybe a pull-out in a small suite, good furniture, a restaurant with room service, valet parking, etc.  It would not only be aimed at rich people, it would not be aimed at Wal-Martians, etc., but would serve the university clientele such as parents on college tours, executives who are coming the WCOB to guest lecture or contribute, people from out of town coming to games, business people looking at NWA as a new site, guests of more affluent families in and around Fayetteville, etc.  There is a market for this level of a hotel.  I used to travel constantly for business, and these are the kinds of places I stayed.  I didn't pay $600 a night but I did not stay at Hamptons, Days Inns, Guest Quarters, Motel 6, tired-out Hiltons, or beat to crap Radissons that used to be Hiltons.  When you are gone all the time and your clients are picking up the tab you want to be in a decent place with wireless internet, nice beds, good locks on the door, and a bar!

[Aporkalypse]

masons_dad1, on Aug 28 2006, 11:04 PM, said:

Well just who are these people staying in NWA hotels? This isn't Vegas so we don't have any casinos and this isn't New York so we don't have Broadway. So are they corporate executives and wealthy entrepeneurs who have money to blow or can write-off their expenses and let the shareholders pay the bill? In that case signing a multi-million dollar deal with Wal-Mart may be worth $600 a night.

Maybe but if you're doing business with Wal-Mart and they're squeezing you for every penny you might be better off staying in the $120 a night room downstairs.  There's nothing wrong with Embassy Suites, I use them frequently.  I just don't stay in $600 rooms.

[mzweig]

Aporkalypse, on Aug 29 2006, 01:33 PM, said:

Maybe but if you're doing business with Wal-Mart and they're squeezing you for every penny you might be better off staying in the $120 a night room downstairs.  There's nothing wrong with Embassy Suites, I use them frequently.  I just don't stay in $600 rooms.

Embassey Suites is a decent business hotel.  But it's in Rogers, and we (well at least some of us) are in Fayetteville, and people coming to Fayetteville don't really want to stay 20 miles away.  We need decent hotels in Fayetteville.

I just don't think we can lump Fayetteville, Rogers, and Bentonville into one market, and act as if something is in one of those places the other places don't need it, or if there's a glut of something in one area, that applies to all areas.  It doesn't.  ALL of NWA is not one market.  I know I keep saying this but it applies to hotels, housing, restaurants, and more.

[Aporkalypse]

mzweig, on Aug 29 2006, 02:37 PM, said:

Embassey Suites is a decent business hotel.  But it's in Rogers, and we (well at least some of us) are in Fayetteville, and people coming to Fayetteville don't really want to stay 20 miles away.  We need decent hotels in Fayetteville.

I just don't think we can lump Fayetteville, Rogers, and Bentonville into one market, and act as if something is in one of those places the other places don't need it, or if there's a glut of something in one area, that applies to all areas.  It doesn't.  ALL of NWA is not one market.  I know I keep saying this but it applies to hotels, housing, restaurants, and more.

I don't think anyone lumps the m together, unless it's game day.  Then I think you can almost count Eureka and even Ft Smith in the market.  As the article he referred to stated, the Fayetteville hotels are busiest on weekends and the Rogers/B-ville hotels busiest during the week.  Their clientele is markedly different.

[Mith242]

I do agree that Fayetteville should be able to support at least one nice hotel.  I think there perhaps some university clientele and alumni who might like staying in Fayetteville rather than go to Rogers to a nicer hotel.
But I've gotten the impression the Renaissance is going to be a nice hotel along with the Divinity.  If both can ever get past their problems and get into the construction phase.  

[mzweig]

Mith242, on Aug 29 2006, 01:43 PM, said:

I do agree that Fayetteville should be able to support at least one nice hotel.  I think there perhaps some university clientele and alumni who might like staying in Fayetteville rather than go to Rogers to a nicer hotel.
But I've gotten the impression the Renaissance is going to be a nice hotel along with the Divinity.  If both can ever get past their problems and get into the construction phase.  

Amen--both of those will be first-rate hotels.  We need 'em.  I just pray these projects move ahead.  I am frankly more worried about the Rennaisance than I am Divinity in terms of it actually getting built.

[mzweig]

Aporkalypse, on Aug 29 2006, 01:43 PM, said:

I don't think anyone lumps the m together, unless it's game day.  Then I think you can almost count Eureka and even Ft Smith in the market.  As the article he referred to stated, the Fayetteville hotels are busiest on weekends and the Rogers/B-ville hotels busiest during the week.  Their clientele is markedly different.

This is true.  But I do get the impression that people using this forum keep lumping.  I think it's a mistake.  Maybe it is the entrepreneur in me who is constantly looking for unfilled niches or something but I do believe Fayetteville is markedly different from Bentonville and Rogers.  I think Bentonville and Rogers are different from each other, too, but have a lot more in common with each other than they do with Fayetteville.

[Mith242]

mzweig, on Aug 29 2006, 02:48 PM, said:

Amen--both of those will be first-rate hotels.  We need 'em.  I just pray these projects move ahead.  I am frankly more worried about the Rennaisance than I am Divinity in terms of it actually getting built.

Just curious have you heard any info not mentioned here on the forum?  What do you see as the major obstacle  for the Renaissance being completed?

[jdevers]

mzweig, on Aug 28 2006, 08:26 PM, said:

The Renaissance is supposed to be 18 stories, last I heard.  It will be nice.  The Radisson is a dump.  I have stayed in the best suite they have and it was a one star out of five.  Very ratty.  

M

I couldn't agree more, as part of my job I eat there about three to five times per month, and while staying in a room and eating at a hotel are two different things they are related.  The food there is pretty close to horrible (don't ask me the politics of why meetings are scheduled there) and so is everything surrounding it.  It is sad when the only nice hotel room we can put visiting family and friends into is at Carnall Hall, it has so few suites that last minute bookings (meaning less than a month or two notice) are out of the question.  Everything else in town is a motel (except for the Hampton Inn, but it offers a view of an interstate and little else, while also not having a real restaurant on site).

Aporkalypse, on Aug 29 2006, 01:43 PM, said:

I don't think anyone lumps the m together, unless it's game day.  Then I think you can almost count Eureka and even Ft Smith in the market.  As the article he referred to stated, the Fayetteville hotels are busiest on weekends and the Rogers/B-ville hotels busiest during the week.  Their clientele is markedly different.

Don't forget Bikes Blues and BBQ, I know it is just once a year, but I had friends who stayed in TULSA that weekend.  They said there were LOTS of bikers at their hotel too...  Every hotel in the three county (including Eureka here...) area was booked up for the last weekend in September THIS year at this time LAST year.

[mzweig]

Mith242, on Aug 29 2006, 04:19 PM, said:

Just curious have you heard any info not mentioned here on the forum?  What do you see as the major obstacle  for the Renaissance being completed?

My worries are centered around financing.  Nock--who I really like and think does a great job-- seems to me like he might be overextended.  I heard that's why he didn't get the Radisson--but dunno if that's true at all.

Then on top of it, you have a softening market here in NWA, new competitors, and rising interest rates, along with a need to redesign the foundations to make the building taller and go back in front of the planning commission that just got slammed for how they handled the last tall buidling approval.  It just seems like things could go wrong.  Probably won't, but could.  I hope they go well for a zillion reasons!

jdevers, on Aug 29 2006, 05:10 PM, said:

I couldn't agree more, as part of my job I eat there about three to five times per month, and while staying in a room and eating at a hotel are two different things they are related.  The food there is pretty close to horrible (don't ask me the politics of why meetings are scheduled there) and so is everything surrounding it.  It is sad when the only nice hotel room we can put visiting family and friends into is at Carnall Hall, it has so few suites that last minute bookings (meaning less than a month or two notice) are out of the question.  Everything else in town is a motel (except for the Hampton Inn, but it offers a view of an interstate and little else, while also not having a real restaurant on site).

The food is AWFUL there.  I have eaten better at Brough Commons (dorm food--I do it once a week because I teach in the evening at the U of A)--I kid you not!

[Aporkalypse]

jdevers, on Aug 29 2006, 05:10 PM, said:

Don't forget Bikes Blues and BBQ, I know it is just once a year, but I had friends who stayed in TULSA that weekend.  They said there were LOTS of bikers at their hotel too...  Every hotel in the three county (including Eureka here...) area was booked up for the last weekend in September THIS year at this time LAST year.

Perhaps, though it's not the kind of event you probably want to attract.  Bikers have a way of kind of creating a trashy reputation for an area like that.  I also didn't mention War Eagle, which is probably even more significant.

Quote

My worries are centered around financing. Nock--who I really like and think does a great job-- seems to me like he might be overextended. I heard that's why he didn't get the Radisson--but dunno if that's true at all.

Then on top of it, you have a softening market here in NWA, new competitors, and rising interest rates, along with a need to redesign the foundations to make the building taller and go back in front of the planning commission that just got slammed for how they handled the last tall buidling approval. It just seems like things could go wrong. Probably won't, but could. I hope they go well for a zillion reasons!

Me, too.  Location will dictate that I will pay premium prices (and the damn two night minimum) to get this hotel or the Radisson for game weekends in a year or two.  Nothing's better than being able to walk to the game from your hotel.

[Mith242]

mzweig, on Aug 29 2006, 05:50 PM, said:

My worries are centered around financing.  Nock--who I really like and think does a great job-- seems to me like he might be overextended.  I heard that's why he didn't get the Radisson--but dunno if that's true at all.

Then on top of it, you have a softening market here in NWA, new competitors, and rising interest rates, along with a need to redesign the foundations to make the building taller and go back in front of the planning commission that just got slammed for how they handled the last tall buidling approval.  It just seems like things could go wrong.  Probably won't, but could.  I hope they go well for a zillion reasons!

Okay, I was worried you knew something else.  I hadn't heard that Nock might be overextended but I had wondered about it.  I thought there might be something else going on to make this process being drawn out so long.  Especially when they set times for construction and they keep missing them.

[jdevers]

mzweig, on Aug 29 2006, 04:50 PM, said:

The food is AWFUL there.  I have eaten better at Brough Commons (dorm food--I do it once a week because I teach in the evening at the U of A)--I kid you not!

Hahaha, I thought the same thing earlier.  I ate at Brough while attending U of A and it was better than a lot of places actually, definitely better than the Radisson or the Clarion...  Hey, what do you teach?  I taught microbiology this  and last summer (session I),

[masons_dad1]

Aporkalypse, on Aug 29 2006, 02:33 PM, said:

Maybe but if you're doing business with Wal-Mart and they're squeezing you for every penny you might be better off staying in the $120 a night room downstairs.  There's nothing wrong with Embassy Suites, I use them frequently.  I just don't stay in $600 rooms.

That's true, but execs from multi-billion dollar companies aren't shirking their $500 suits and their Jags just because Wal-Mart is their largest customer. A millionaire exec comes to NWA for a week he's going to stay in the best suite available which is probably comparable to a motel room from what he's used to.

[mzweig]

jdevers, on Aug 29 2006, 07:50 PM, said:

Hahaha, I thought the same thing earlier.  I ate at Brough while attending U of A and it was better than a lot of places actually, definitely better than the Radisson or the Clarion...  Hey, what do you teach?  I taught microbiology this  and last summer (session I),

I teach entreprenuership here at the Walton College of Business.  Right across from Brough!

M

[Mith242]

Perhaps not the best fit, but I wanted a more general hotel news topic and this seems the closest.  Here's some info on the top grossing hotels in Arkansas.  Embassy Suites in Rogers in is the top five but the only one in the top ten for NWA.  Bentonville's Hilton Garden Inn is next at 13th.  There are a few more Bentonville hotels on the list.  Springdale's Holiday Inn is 21st, and the Cosmopolitan/Radisson here in Fayetteville was 31st.  I got this info from Arkansas Business News by the way.

[Mith242]

I hadn't realized this before but it looks like the Embassy Suites by far has the most rooms/suites in Arkansas.  Although I guess there could be a big low grossing hotel possibly that isn't on the list.