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Norfolk Light Rail and Transit


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#21 br0guy

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 02:22 PM

Bro - I agree with what your saying, they should go all the way up Hampton and back down colley, through the Hague, and down bramblton. 

There is no way its gonna be a one rail track. There is no way their that stupid.

It better not be a one rail track. if thats what its gonna be, dont even do it. thats complete crap. It cant be, I cant think of anything dumber or more of a waste of money than a one rail track.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tell us how you really feel :lol:

 

#22 br0guy

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 02:27 PM

Like I said... I'm not familiar with how "Light" rail works. Does the "Light" imply something less than a real rail system? I guess I gotta do some research. I know St. Louis and Baltimore have something in place, so I'll start there.

#23 Seven Cities

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 02:49 PM

A few sites to get you all started:

Baltimore Light Rail - Maryland Transit Authority
http://www.mtamaryla...ices/lightrail/

A page with links to pictures
http://web.presby.ed...more/LightRail/

And as always, you can never go wrong with Roads To The Future
http://www.roadstoth...Light_Rail.html

#24 br0guy

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 03:48 PM

These renderings show double tracks for Norfolk's light rail system.

http://www.norfolkde...ailStations.pdf

#25 lammius

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 11:03 PM

Does anyone know how many tracks are on the NS line?

In order to provide regular service there would have to be a siding (second parallel line), or at least a short siding pocket that allows a train to move over and let an opposing train pass before moving back onto the main line.

One of the commuter rail lines in New Jersey (Pascack Valley Line) operates on a single track. It's a terrible service, IMO. ALL morning trains go south toward Hoboken/New York in the morning, ALL trains move north into Bergen County and upstate NY in the evening. So if you go into work in the morning and your kid gets sick and you need to go back, you have to wait until the afternoon to get a train. Yuck!

I've been hoping Norfolk will get this light rail started for many years! It will be the area's first serious commitment to transit and offer opportunities for some transit-oriented development (TOD).

#26 rusthebuss

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 10:44 AM

These renderings show double tracks for Norfolk's light rail system.

http://www.norfolkde...ailStations.pdf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This shows the Kirn Library getting demolished and used as a Station! There is only on track on the NS line but the track is in very bad shape and can't be used. They are planning on putting new lines down and looking at the pdf it looks to go both directions

#27 JPN0731

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 05:46 PM

As someone who just left the burbs for the Freemason area, I really hope this LR thing gets squashed. The reason? I see absolutely zero point in going forward with this scheme until HRT gets its act together.

The line is idiotic and I am sure that there will be people who will ride this, but at the huge cost that they will spend (triple their preliminary figures and then double that) is it worth it to get a few more people off the road? The route that it is going (basically through DT and along 264) is dead in both directions except for backups caused by things that this LR train will not aleviate (the tunnels). They should have tried to get a commuter line from the Naval Base to Silverleaf in VA Beach via the HOV lanes first. On a cost basis, this money would be better spent improving the bus system because the people who have cars in this area are not going to waste time dealing with public transport. This is not DC, NYC or Portland, OR.

Anyone who had ridden the horrific Baltimore LR or subway can easily see what will become of any LR project left in the hands of HRT. The stations are filthy and decrepit (think Kern Library in DT Norfolk), the LR trains and filthy and smell like urine and the people running the trains are some of the rudest people this side of a Food Lion check stand.

#28 tombarnes

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 09:36 PM

The Kirn Library should be preserved, if only as a reminder of how awful 1950's modernism really was....Ugly as it is, it's a period piece.

Edited by tombarnes, 16 September 2005 - 08:18 PM.


#29 JPN0731

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 10:17 PM

The Kirn Library should be preserved, if only as a reminder of how awful 1960's modernism really was....Ugly as it is, it's a period piece.

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It is preserved. Walking in there is like walking into 1957 all over again.

#30 hoobo

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 11:11 PM

Anyone who had ridden the horrific Baltimore LR or subway can easily see what will become of any LR project left in the hands of HRT.  The stations are filthy and decrepit (think Kern Library in DT Norfolk), the LR trains and filthy and smell like urine and the people running the trains are some of the rudest people this side of a Food Lion check stand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The Baltimore LR was enough for me. Didn't even chance it on the subway. I would hope HRT doesn't build something that horrible. But at least the Baltimore lines go somewhere esp the LR line from BWI to downtown. The Green Line in LA has no purpose. It goes from Norwalk along the 105 to Redondo Beach. Environmental concerns and political fighting prevented it from going to LAX. Basically, it goes from nowhere to nowhere. Then there's the Orange BRT. It ends across a busy street from a Red Line station. Politics and money prevented a subterranean tunnel or skywalk from connecting the two. Now these are great models for HRT. Models of what, I don't know.

#31 JPN0731

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 05:01 PM

The Baltimore LR was enough for me.  Didn't even chance it on the subway.  I would hope HRT doesn't build something that horrible.  But at least the Baltimore lines go somewhere esp the LR line from BWI to downtown.  The Green Line in LA has no purpose.  It goes from Norwalk along the 105 to Redondo Beach.  Environmental concerns and political fighting prevented it from going to LAX.  Basically, it goes from nowhere to nowhere.  Then there's the Orange BRT.  It ends across a busy street from a Red Line station.  Politics and money prevented a subterranean tunnel or skywalk from connecting the two.  Now these are great models for HRT.  Models of what, I don't know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well the Baltimore subway (Metro) is another time warp. This one takes you circa late 70's. NOTHING seems to have been done since it was built. Cars are clean but everything else is scary. And you have to buy the ticket from the person sitting there. The payment system is one of the most idiotic (same goes for Montreal's otherwise excellent Metro).

The Balto LR is much worse when you have been on a LR that works (Portland). They may actually have the same cars, it's just that the Balto cars are filled with garbage, urine and personnel who don't care anyway. HRT busses are a good indicator of how HRT would run LR.

LA's LR is about as sketchy as Baltimore and about as pointless as one Norfolk would be. I rode the blue line from Long Beach to LA. That was a few hours of my life I will never get back...

#32 rusthebuss

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 07:23 PM

I think that this wouldn't be the best starter track but I will think it will be successful. Hopefully they will expand it around the entire city but the only way this will be successful is if the cities around join in on LR. I think P-Town should get it too! And it should join either from Chesapeake or from the third crossing at Craney Island but that would be YEARS away! Lets hope these cities think ahead and not fall back years.

#33 lammius

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 08:21 PM

I think that this wouldn't be the best starter track but I will think it will be successful. Hopefully they will expand it around the entire city but the only way this will be successful is if the cities around join in on LR. I think P-Town should get it too! And it should join either from Chesapeake or from the third crossing at Craney Island but that would be YEARS away! Lets hope these cities think ahead and not fall back years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I'd love to see regional LRT or commuter rail. Let's hope the NEXT federal transportation bill is more transit-friendly than the recent one!

#34 okinawatyphoon

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 04:06 AM

On a new track with Maglev

#35 vdogg

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 12:56 PM

On a new track with Maglev

Good to see they're still going after it. I'd really like to see this thing get off the ground.

#36 rusthebuss

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 10:14 AM

A Sentara Office building could be a fine addition. I believe that a signature tower could be a sensitive issue, however. Anybody seen the Humana tower in Louisville? It's one of Michael Graves best, but it makes me a bit leery of the impersonal money machines some medical health providers have become. Nevertheless, medicine is probably one of Hampton Roads's next big growth industries.

On the Town Center subject. It is a competitor to downtown Norfolk in that it can place financial and legal services closer to their clientele in the large and relatively wealthy Va. Beach suburbs. It's not quite the same as the back office "edge cities" that popped up during the '80s and '90s. It reminds me more of Walnut Creek, California than say Concord or Pleasant Hill, if you know the Bay Area (where I lived for a long time). Town center is a spectacular success, but it's long term growth potential may be somewhat limited in that most of the future growth in South Hampton Roads will probably occur in the Western part of the region. In turn, that will help strengthen downtown Norfolk as the true center (if we can just get the damned Midtown Tunnel expanded).

I too wish they would widen the mid town tunnel but I don't know if that will ever happen in our life time. Man would that ease Hampton Blvd! If they could just drop another tube for 2 lanes on each side and one tube for mass transit it would be great!

#37 odumonarch

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 10:18 AM

I too wish they would widen the mid town tunnel but I don't know if that will ever happen in our life time. Man would that ease Hampton Blvd! If they could just drop another tube for 2 lanes on each side and one tube for mass transit it would be great!

They are in planning stages at least I think on a 2nd Midtown Tunnel. Hampton Blvd. is bottlenecked on afternoons when Old Dominion students leave school to go home. Plus, when you try to use Midtown when it's mornings, 3 lanes are converged into 1, which is not good for traffic, and it chokes off the economic development. I think a 2nd Midtown tunnel should become one of highest priorities for transportation, since people use it to go to navy base and ODU and norfolk terminals. Whether they begin (date?), :unsure:

#38 hoobo

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 10:39 AM

I believe they wanted to widen the Midtown as part of the Pinners Point Connection, but there just wasn't enough money. There was also supposed to be a connection to 264. One of the projects of the sales tax referendum was a second Midtown tube. Alas, the real Pinners Point vision will have to wait.

#39 rusthebuss

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 11:31 AM

I believe they wanted to widen the Midtown as part of the Pinners Point Connection, but there just wasn't enough money. There was also supposed to be a connection to 264. One of the projects of the sales tax referendum was a second Midtown tube. Alas, the real Pinners Point vision will have to wait.

The problem with that tax referendum was there was loop holes that could possibly having money from this area not stay here and people are getting tired of that. People want our money to stay in the region but from over the years they see it doesn't so they didn't want to pay for other things in this state

#40 hoobo

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 12:21 PM

The problem with that tax referendum was there was loop holes that could possibly having money from this area not stay here and people are getting tired of that. People want our money to stay in the region but from over the years they see it doesn't so they didn't want to pay for other things in this state


What, you don't want money that would improve traffic flow in west Norfolk (thereby making Fort Norfolk more attractive to development) be diverted to truck-only lanes along I-81 or the wonderful Bluefield (sp?) Expressway?




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