217 replies to this topic

[DigitalSky]

GGP put new aerials up of their malls. Here's Four Seasons.

http://www.generalgr...ntre_aerial.jpg

[StevenRocks]

That's a great photo.  See, there are still trees left in Greensboro!

[NCMike1981]

Great aerial Cantnot! Four Seasons Mall really doesn't look very big from above, I suppose the fact that it's 3 stories sort of helps things out. Also what part of High Point Road is crappy? Is it the area to the right of Olive Garden and "Grady's" (What's Grady's?). Also one more comment....jeez there are alot of hotels clustered around the mall, especially across from the convention center....

The residential areas look so quiet and peaceful ( I doubt they are all that quiet on streetlevel since they are so close to the large commercial areas), are they older middle class homes?

Edited by NCMike1981, 19 September 2005 - 02:15 PM.

[StevenRocks]

NCMike1981, on Sep 19 2005, 03:14 PM, said:

what part of High Point Road is crappy? Is it the area to the right of Olive Garden and "Grady's" (What's Grady's?).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Grady's is actually Austin's now.  Grady's was a decent casual dining restaurant.  

Pretty much north of Grady's and about a mile south of the mall, the crappy parts of High Point Road begin.

[DigitalSky]

Well depending on how you look at it, all parts of High Point Road from Sedgefield to Lee St can be considered crappy, IMO.  It's just discombobulatedly organized.

[StevenRocks]

cantnot, on Sep 19 2005, 10:45 PM, said:

Well depending on how you look at it, all parts of High Point Road from Sedgefield to Lee St can be considered crappy, IMO.  It's just discombobulatedly organized.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The organization is an issue, but really, the problem comes when the second-, third- and fourth-generaton users occupy the same old buildings and they become run-down.

[krazeeboi]

Nice aerial. I've been to Four Seasons Mall twice, and I think it's a pretty cool mall.

[cityboi]

As far as I know, it the only 3 level mall in NC unless Charlotte has recently built one. Most malls now days have at least 5 major department store anchors . Four Seasons only has 3 (J C Penny, Dillards and Belk) However Four Seasons use to have 4. I remember when Tallheimers (now Hecht's) was on the lower level.

Edited by cityboi, 25 September 2005 - 05:03 PM.

[ILoveCallingNCHome]

cityboi, on Sep 25 2005, 07:00 PM, said:

I remember when Tallheimers (now Hecht's) was on the lower level.

I rememeber that too..though at that time their bigger and better store was at Friendly Center.  I guess it was about the time that they expanded their Friendly Center store that they closed the one at 4 Seasons. (I also remember rumors before they closed it that they were considering expanding the 4 Season's location..but I  apparently that never panned out)  Now the part of the mall that was Thalhiemers is a Rack Room Shoes I believe.

[Jerseyman4]

Four Seasons is the only three level story mall that i know of period! What other cities have three level malls?

[cityboi]

I think Atlanta has a 3 level mall. And the Mall of America has even more. But you are right, there aren't that many malls across the country that have 3 levels. So you can imagine that people thought Joe Koury was crazy back in the 70s for planning a mall in Greensboro that would eventually have 3 levels of retail. When the mall was built the 3rd level existed, it was just closed of to the public and very few people didnt realized that the mall had a 3rd level until it was opened up with retail stores in 1986. It was a secret for about a decade. A 3 level mall was a crazy idea back in the 70s and even today there arent that many.

Edited by cityboi, 25 September 2005 - 08:15 PM.

[cityboi]

ILoveCallingNCHome, on Sep 25 2005, 07:38 PM, said:

I rememeber that too..though at that time their bigger and better store was at Friendly Center.  I guess it was about the time that they expanded their Friendly Center store that they closed the one at 4 Seasons. (I also remember rumors before they closed it that they were considering expanding the 4 Season's location..but I  apparently that never panned out)  Now the part of the mall that was Thalhiemers is a Rack Room Shoes I believe.

Part of Joe Koury's vision was to add an additional two department stores another large parking deck on the Dillard's side of the mall and an enclosed expansion wing of the mall that would coonnect the Sheraton Four Seasons/Koury Convention Center with the mall making it all one building. But now that Koury Corp has sold the mall I doubt that will happen unless the new mall owner and Koury Corp work together with some kind of agreement to do it. I remember seeing a picture of a 3d model of that vision back in 1989. In the model the mall was connected to the Shraton Four Season (Holiday Inn Four Seasons at the time) and the 28-story tower looked dramatically different. It was still triangular but the origanal design showed a tower that was almost completely reflective glass and the 3 corners of the building had dark colored cylindrical towers and the roof was slanted upward. It was a very sleek design and was something youd see in maybe Los Angeles but instead they went for a more plainer conservative design that used less glass and more white concrete facing. Ive always liked the neon that lights up and goes all the way to the top of the building. It gives the building a "Las Vegas" effect but now they have replaced the white neon with red LED lighting becasue the neon would burn out in sections all the time. In terms of the electric bill, it also cheaper to run LED lighting over neon.

But in the model that showed the original design for the Koury tower, there was another vision highrise on the other side of High Point Road. I'm not sure what that was suppose to be. Maybe a planned future hotel by Koury Corp. It would be niceif they built it becasue then there would be a mini skyline with that hotel, the Sheraton Koury and the Howard Johnson on the other side of I-40. Its actually a good thing they didnt go with the origional design for the 28-story Koury tower because it would have looked dramatically different from the older 15-story tower

Edited by cityboi, 25 September 2005 - 08:46 PM.

[StevenRocks]

ILoveCallingNCHome, on Sep 25 2005, 08:38 PM, said:

I rememeber that too..though at that time their bigger and better store was at Friendly Center.  I guess it was about the time that they expanded their Friendly Center store that they closed the one at 4 Seasons. (I also remember rumors before they closed it that they were considering expanding the 4 Season's location..but I  apparently that never panned out)  Now the part of the mall that was Thalhiemers is a Rack Room Shoes I believe.

Hecht's Friendly Center expanded in 1997, about five years after Thalhimers closed at Four Seasons.  The original plan was to have a larger Hecht's replace Thalhimers Four Seasons, but Koury Corp. never hammered out a fair deal with May Company.  May eventually built a feestanding Hecht's off West Wendover instead.

The last mall renovation in '99 was a contentious one as well.  Koury wanted the department stores to remodel along with the mall.  JCPenney agreed, Belk declined, and Dillard's refused to unless they owned their own store.  So Koury ened up selling Dillard's its space in the mall to get the project moving.

[cityboi]

The last major expansion at Four Seasons was back in 1986 when the mall open up a third level and was also renovated. That expansion helped lead to the demise of Carolina Circle Mall in northeast Greensboro. The expansion also made it the largest mall in the state at the time. Then in 1990 The Joseph S. Koury Convention Center opened next to the Holiday Inn Four Seasons (now Sheraton Four Seasons). In 1994 a 28 story hotel tower was constructed atop the Koury Convention Center making it the largest hotel between Atlanta and Washington even until this day.

I remember seeing a photo of a model of the Four Seasons complex. The 28-story tower looked dramatically different but the model showed an expanded mall connected to the Koury Convention Center by means of a restaurant over Koury Blvd. The model included and additional department store and a very large parking deck on the Dillard's side of the mall, much larger than the one south of JC Penny. I wonder will these plans ever go forward? I know Koury Corp sold off the mall to another company but it seems natural just to connect the convention hotel with the mall. I think they should also rebuild a multiplex theater there as well.

(Just for your information, hotel has actually gone through two expansions. When the hotel and mall opened in the 1970, the Holiday Inn was only a 5 story motel. Shortly after the motel expanded with a 15-story tower. Then there was the 28-story expansion in 1994)

Edited by cityboi, 21 February 2006 - 11:33 AM.

[DigitalSky]

Who knows.  This mall is a conundrum.  It's not in a high growth area, although in a heavily travelled area at the intersection of two major arteries.

It is possible that they could expand.  General Growth has done a good job of bringing in new tenants, if anything they'd add an "outdoor village" portion to the mall like they're doing at Carolina Place i think.

http://www.generalgr...ntre_aerial.jpg

[DigitalSky]

Ok so I made a quick plan in Paint in 5 minutes. LOL

[cityboi]

Thats a nice plan. You should send the idea to the owners of the mall. The "Outdoor Village" could have an amphitheater.

[Creasy336]

That plan is great.    If the were to expand do you think they would continue the 3rd floor towards the convention center?  would a movie theatre be in the outdoor portion of the project?

[DigitalSky]

Well, keep in mind JC Penney is only 2 stories so if the convention center connected to JC Penney, it'd be the 2nd level connection unless the store added a 3rd level.  And yeah I'd include a movie theater in that plan.

[cityboi]

I would hope the movie theatre would be built within the mall like they did at Carolina Circle Mall. The old theater at Four Seasons was an isolated building in the parking lot. The  NASCAR Cafe' is now in that location.