15 replies to this topic

[PVDJack]

Apologies if this relatively dated info has already been posted, but it's interesting to me that RI is one of the only Northeast states to post a net gain in the migration of 20-somethings:

http://www.epodunk.c..._migration.html

I wonder how much of this is attributable to Providence?

I have to think it's a positive trend for RI, and hope that it has continued and grown post-2000.

Would love to hear others thoughts.

PVDJack

[Garris]

PVDJack, on Sep 22 2005, 09:29 AM, said:

Apologies if this relatively dated info has already been posted, but it's interesting to me that RI is one of the only Northeast states to post a net gain in the migration of 20-somethings:

http://www.epodunk.c..._migration.html

I wonder how much of this is attributable to Providence?

I have to think it's a positive trend for RI, and hope that it has continued and grown post-2000.

Would love to hear others thoughts.

PVDJack

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is interesting.  The Prov 2020 folks talked a lot about this.  According to what they said, unfortunately, while our percentage went up, we are running below other New England cities at holding on to them for the long term, largely due to the lack of highly skilled job opportunities.  So, like New Haven, Hartford, etc, we are training people at our great universities like Brown, RISD, PC, J&W, etc, then lose them to Boston, Austin, Atlanta, etc.  

I look at where the coworkers from my training program have gone...  One stayed here, one went to Hartford, one went to the Southwest, one is going to the mid-Atlantic states, one is going to Texas, and another might stay here or go the New York metro...  Job availability here in my field in medicine are pretty good, but the salaries are quite low compared to other areas of the nation, mostly due to malpractice and health insurance issues.

- Garris

[Cotuit]

Study says R.I. needs to better retain its educated workers

[PVDJack]

This article from The Chicago Sun-Times strikes me as very pertinent to Providence's future:

Cities' success tied to attracting young educated
http://www.suntimes....restless08.html

Good quotes:

'Cities with the most attractive close-in neighborhoods will fare better in attracting the "Young and Restless."'

'"Increasingly, we live in a world where cities compete for people, and businesses follow," said Carol Coletta, president and CEO of CEOs for Cities.'

PVDJack

Edited by PVDJack, 12 December 2005 - 06:18 PM.

[CtownMikey]

the article says "According to the report, the cities currently with the most attractive close-in neighborhoods include Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, New York and Boston."

Since we are becoming a cheaper alternative to living in Boston, is this a good thing for us as long as prices in Boston dont drop too much?

[PVDJack]

CtownMikey, on Dec 12 2005, 09:22 PM, said:

the article says "According to the report, the cities currently with the most attractive close-in neighborhoods include Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, New York and Boston."

Since we are becoming a cheaper alternative to living in Boston, is this a good thing for us as long as prices in Boston dont drop too much?

Yes, but I believe the bigger point of the article is that good "in-close" neighborhoods are key to becoming an attractive metropolis for the young. How do Providence's "in-close" neighborhoods rate? My feeling is that there are some good ones already, and the potential for many others on the not-too-distant horizon.

[Cotuit]

The East Side would qualify as in-close, and it's certainly qualifies as a good neighbourhood. The other sides, have some seperation issues. South Providence is seperated by 195 and will continue to be after the relocation.

The West Side is seperated not only by 95 (which I don't think is as big a barrier as it's made out to be), but also by a poorly developed strip just to the west of the highway. I call the area along Dean Street from Broadway down to Broad Street the Near West Side. It's the area where projects like West Fountain and Metro Lofts are proposed and has the best potential of any area in the city in my opinion. Development in this strip will serve to reconnect the West Side to Downcity.

The North Side of the city, Smith Hill... is seperated by the highway and the state offices complex and it's sea of parking. I think redevelopment of the Masonic Temple will help reconnect Smith Hill, but the state offices are kind of a mess. It would be nice to see a full scale redevelopment of this area.

Then there's the Promenade, which isn't really a neighbourhood yet and has Providence Place disconnecting it.

I think we have pretty good close-in neighbourhoods, but a lot of issues that are making them seem cut-off from the downtown. I think a lot of these seperation issues though are rather easily surmountable, the worse issues being the north and south sides.

[PVDJack]

Cotuit, on Dec 13 2005, 11:11 AM, said:

I think we have pretty good close-in neighbourhoods, but a lot of issues that are making them seem cut-off from the downtown. I think a lot of these seperation issues though are rather easily surmountable, the worse issues being the north and south sides.

Very well said. To your point, I think we need to improve not only the individual neighborhoods, but also the "connective tissue" that will determine whether they feel "close-in" or not.

[TheAnk]

I read on CNN the other day that 3500 or so families have recently relocated fro MA to RI, and about the same from MA to NH.. They didn't say the time period though.. It was very good news though, the article said that people are opening up to RI as a commuting local to Boston, and realizing that its 45 minutes, and faster than commuting from most suburbs..

[CtownMikey]

I wonder if those residents live close to the border.. and how close.

Do they go over to Mass for shopping, dining, events?

[Jenkins]

CtownMikey, on Dec 16 2005, 12:44 PM, said:

I wonder if those residents live close to the border.. and how close.

Do they go over to Mass for shopping, dining, events?

My wife and I moved to Providence from Boston 2 years ago. We live about 3 blocks from exit 25 in the north end of Providence. Maybe 5 miles from the Mass. border. I commute to Boston via the train out of South Attleboro, and my wife drives to Hopkington, Mass (about 45 minutes away). We looked in other areas of Providence but for commute reasons accessability to 95 was key. Also wanted to avoid having to drive into the heart of Providence during rush hour, which would have maybe added 10-15 minutes on many bad commuting days.

We eat out almost exclusively in Providence (unreal how many great places there are!), but do some shopping over the border (i.e. South Attleboro). Almost never go to Boston for theatre, sports, arts events anymore. Not sure if we will stay here long term, however. The very high RI tax burden combined with mediocre school systems, substandard services and infrastructure has me peaking back over the border now and again. I'd love to stay in Providence and hope things improve, though   .

[Cotuit]

We have abundant sprawllands right here in Rhode Island to shop at, the sales tax chases people across the border to Seekonk and Attleboro. The sales tax in Rhode Island should be rolled back.

[Garris]

Cotuit, on Dec 13 2005, 11:11 AM, said:

I think we have pretty good close-in neighbourhoods, but a lot of issues that are making them seem cut-off from the downtown. I think a lot of these seperation issues though are rather easily surmountable, the worse issues being the north and south sides.

I would definitely agree.  Unlike areas on the East Side (like Wayland Sq, Hope Village, and even Fox Point/Wickenden), however, many of those South, Western, and Northern neighborhoods don't have central retail districts with their own slate of essential services (pharmacies, hair stylists, supermarkets, dry cleaners, restaurants, etc).  How many of these neighborhoods are really "self sufficient" in this regard?

We keep talking about the need for such retail and services in the new downtown area while, in reality, many of our existing neighborhoods could use such retail critical mass and concentration.

I don't know what's holding this back.  Zoning?  History?  Economics?  If I were in government representing these communities, that would be my first priority.

- Garris

[TheAnk]

Eh, I think the other areas do have it.. Each section has its major thoroughfares with retail.. Streets like Broad, Elmwood, Atwells, Manton, Chalkstone, Douglas Smith St, Broadway, Westminster provide all the services you need.. I think its possible to live in most hoods without a car.. Its not pleasant, but you can do it..

I agree that there isn't a celebrates retail core like Wickenden or Thayer, but the retail on the streets in the other areas cater to the services needed by the residents who live there.. For example, I have very little use for Urban Outfitters... I would love to have an Antonio's pizza though..  

[Cotuit]

I think there are two main factors contributing to the differences in the retail zones on the East Side vs. the rest of the city: economics (or percerved economics) and architecture.

For economics, take Olneyville Square. It's the obvious place to have a West Side retail zone (it was one in the past, still is if you like pawn shops and adult video stores (and who doesn't?)), but there is the real and percerved economics issues of the area. The incomes in the area are depressed enough that it is hard for retailers to make the best of the area, and the percerved problems with the area keep people from other nearby areas (Federal Hill, Armory...) from using it as their retail zone. Watch what happens with Valley Street, as that area changes. Residents and office workers in that area will begin bringing the demand for retail, and Olneyville is it's obvious home (some RIPTA improvements would help this along, i.e. It'd be good if us up on Atwells could take a bus direct to Olneyville Square).

The architecture issue is the big-box issue. Walgreens wants to be on Broadway for example, but WBNA is fighting it tooth and nail (rightly so) because they want a suburban style store. Places like the CVS on Thayer are legacy locations, if CVS had their druthers they'd rather have a suburban style shop, but they can't. I think when the 'Near West Side' develops, we'll see some midrise building with large footprints that will give retailers like Walgreens the square footage they want, but will actually fit into the urban streetscape.

If you look at the depressed areas in Providence and Pawtucket that have new retail it's almost all strip malls. Previous administrations have either had no power, or no inclination to try for anything different. Gentrification will force retailers to react to the demands of the customers, people who choose to live in the city, don't want strip malls on their streets. People who have been living in the city due to economic restraints, have had no choice in the past, it was strip malls or nothing.

[TheAnk]

Perfect explanation..

An unfortunate necessary to new retail in depressed areas like Onleyville is that any new retail is generally welcome.. So that opens the door for strip mall like buildings and strip show type retail..  

Take Eagle Square.. They are selling loft condos for 235k to 400k, but the retail they put in is a Pay Half and Dollar Store.. Also a laundromat.. At least they avoided making that a strip mall.. (Its character, meaning its hodge podge set up has won me over by the way.. Sort of New Urbanism wrapped up in an enigma wrapper up in the Woonsaquatucket..) But the services there cater to the residents who are there now.. But the residences they are selling don't fit.. Same with Rising Sun.. I don't want to say the writing is on the wall, but you do the math..

On a side side note, the Foundry parking lot is getting pretty, pretty, pretty full.. So to take it back to the 20 somethings, they must be moving there in droves..