1070 replies to this topic

[mcheiss]

lefty, on Oct 11 2005, 01:45 PM, said:

As much as I like the idea of this Greenway thing, I still think it would be kind of silly right now.  Sure, we might need this sort of thing 20 years in the future.  And maybe now is the best time to have it already in place for the future.  From a planning perpective, it's a great idea.  But from an economic perspective, it's horrible.  The thing would cost a ton of money, and then lose even more money for probably the first 15 years it ran.

All this time, we would have just spent a bazzilion dollars on a train and we wouldn't have any money for much needed road improvements.

I agree, that's why I propose they tweak the plan for the light rail, like what they did in Nashville. Instead of adding on track and and right of way for land, all they did was use existing railroads, buy the light rail cars, install a third rail, and train stations and such. Believe it or not, it would be more feasable, since the existing Arkansas/Missouri Railroad runs along the 4 cities anyway, to not build 41 miles of track and right of way. It only cost Nashville around $30 Million or so. So think about it, if we tweaked the plan, and spent, at the most around $100 million, instead of $1.2 Billion, it would be a great asset to the community.

Otherwise, if they don't change the plan, the I agree with you that it is a waste of money (in terms of economic perspective), and that that money could be otherwise used on better road and infastructure projects.

I love this topic!!!

[lefty]

Well, using existing track would be an excellent idea.  But the first question that comes to mind is what about existing Ark/Mo Railroad traffic?  It's not like that line is not used.

Would the Greenway have to hide on a seperate portion of track while the Ark/Mo trains went through?  I don't know how often trains come through right now, but I assume it's something like twice a day.

The route would work well.  The existing lines go right by areas like Dickson street, Emma (downtown Springdale).  But also go by areas like the Springdale chicken plants.  I'm not sure if people would want to go by those things.

Plus, people already hate waiting for trains now.  There's a lot of roads that don't need to be tied up by rail traffic every hour.

Edited by lefty, 11 October 2005 - 01:23 PM.

[mcheiss]

lefty, on Oct 11 2005, 02:22 PM, said:

Well, using existing track would be an excellent idea.  But the first question that comes to mind is what about existing Ark/Mo Railroad traffic?  It's not like that line is not used.

Would the Greenway have to hide on a seperate portion of track while the Ark/Mo trains went through?  I don't know how often trains come through right now, but I assume it's something like twice a day.

The route would work well.  The existing lines go right by areas like Dickson street, Emma (downtown Springdale).  But also go by areas like the Springdale chicken plants.  I'm not sure if people would want to go by those things.

Plus, people already hate waiting for trains now.  There's a lot of roads that don't need to be tied up by rail traffic every hour.

The Greenway would work in Cooperation with trains coming through. Kind of like in Washington D.C., when commuter trains go through the route of the MetroRail.

And who knows, if that land become valuable out by Springdale in the chicken plants, those plants may sell their land, and multi-use functions could be built along that route. As soon as a project like that is confirmed and construction starts, that land will be worth a lot.

[Mith242]

I also tend to agree with most of the points raised.  I really like the idea of providing an alternative transportation.  But it is a lot of money to spend on something that may not be used.  As opposed to improving and widening roads that we know are used.  But I really do hope that we simply don't become another version of California with huge freeways all over the place.  I would like for there to be alternatives to try to get at least some of the people out of their vehicles.  Overall I don't think the A&M railroad is used a whole lot.  And some of the trains that go through are the tourist trains heading down to Van Buren.  And the trains that do go through tend to be small as opposed to trains I've seen in many other areas.  But depending on how often a light rail was ran it would cause more traffic problems along the roads near the tracks.  But I wouldn't think it would be very long and would hamper things too badly.  But I do agree that they should rethink their ideas and at least start off with a different cheaper and more feasible plan.  If it works out well they can always try to add more in the future.

[lefty]

Well, I asked somebody that lives by the track in fayetteville how often trains come through.  Apparantly a train comes through about once every other day.

[Mith242]

lefty, on Oct 11 2005, 04:53 PM, said:

Well, I asked somebody that lives by the track in fayetteville how often trains come through.  Apparantly a train comes through about once every other day.

I think it picks up on weekends, when the tourist trains tend to run, but still it's not too often.  So I'm not sure if any of this would affect a light rail running on the same track too much.

[mcheiss]

Well, looks like Ozark Regional Transit has added two more fixed routes.

They started yesterday in Fayetteville and Rogers.

The Rogers route goes along the southern portion of the city, and the Fayetteville route goes through Hillcrest Towers and The Northwest Arkansas Mall.

Also, the routes seem to be picking up a lot of interest. They now average around 28 riders a day on each route with a total of now 6 fixed routes.

I know numbers aren't as high as Little Rock's bus system or even Razorback Transit, but  it's still showing a sign that maybe a bus system could work in the area.

[Mith242]

mcheiss, on Oct 12 2005, 01:19 PM, said:

Well, looks like Ozark Regional Transit has added two more fixed routes.

They started yesterday in Fayetteville and Rogers.

The Rogers route goes along the southern portion of the city, and the Fayetteville route goes through Hillcrest Towers and The Northwest Arkansas Mall.

Also, the routes seem to be picking up a lot of interest. They now average around 28 riders a day on each route with a total of now 6 fixed routes.

I know numbers aren't as high as Little Rock's bus system or even Razorback Transit, but  it's still showing a sign that maybe a bus system could work in the area.

I wonder if they could ever work out some deal between Ozark Regional and Razorback or perhaps even merge them.  I guess it's not as big of a deal elsewhere in northwest Arkansas but here in Fayetteville I think they sometimes tend to hurt each other somewhat.

[mcheiss]

Mith242, on Oct 12 2005, 02:56 PM, said:

I wonder if they could ever work out some deal between Ozark Regional and Razorback or perhaps even merge them.  I guess it's not as big of a deal elsewhere in northwest Arkansas but here in Fayetteville I think they sometimes tend to hurt each other somewhat.

That was actually going to be my next post.

Beat me to it!!!

But true, if they did work together, less money would have to be spent on them, and they could really start to get a true bus system in the area going.

Edited by mcheiss, 12 October 2005 - 01:58 PM.

[Mith242]

mcheiss, on Oct 12 2005, 02:57 PM, said:

That was actually going to be my next post.

Beat me to it!!!

But true, if they did work together, less money would have to be spent on them, and they could really start to get a true bus system in the area going.

I agree with you there.  I don't know if it would affect the rest of northwest Arkansas quite so much but I think it would work much better in Fayetteville with just one bus system.  At least you wouldn't have two different bus services competing for federal funds and could get more accomplished.

[mcheiss]

Mith242, on Oct 12 2005, 03:14 PM, said:

I agree with you there.  I don't know if it would affect the rest of northwest Arkansas quite so much but I think it would work much better in Fayetteville with just one bus system.  At least you wouldn't have two different bus services competing for federal funds and could get more accomplished.

Yeah, but a lot of people up here in Benton County are more familiar with Razorback Transit than Ozark Regional Transit. If they took the name, I just think it would do a little better up here.

[Mith242]

mcheiss, on Oct 12 2005, 03:16 PM, said:

Yeah, but a lot of people up here in Benton County are more familiar with Razorback Transit than Ozark Regional Transit. If they took the name, I just think it would do a little better up here.

Hmmm..familiar with the name or with the actual routes and such?  I guess I wouldn't expect people in Benton County to be too familiar with Razorback Transit.  They do service other areas of Fayetteville but mainly are active just around the campus.

[mcheiss]

Mith242, on Oct 12 2005, 03:26 PM, said:

Hmmm..familiar with the name or with the actual routes and such?  I guess I wouldn't expect people in Benton County to be too familiar with Razorback Transit.  They do service other areas of Fayetteville but mainly are active just around the campus.

With both actually. A lot of the people I work with go to The football games or go visit family sometimes down in Fayetteville for a weekend. They seem to enjoy using the transit and the routes because it's such a convience.

[Mith242]

mcheiss, on Oct 13 2005, 01:41 PM, said:

With both actually. A lot of the people I work with go to The football games or go visit family sometimes down in Fayetteville for a weekend. They seem to enjoy using the transit and the routes because it's such a convience.

I guess I hadn't really thought about it that way, but it makes sense.  Maybe not everyone has family here, but I do imagine many people would go to Razorback games and such and would be familiar with it from that.  But back to the other topic.  I do think a more unified and expanded bus service in the area would also be a big help.  And would also be a help in the future for other projects for something like a light rail system.  But I'm not sure if there's a good shot at getting both Ozark Regional and Razorback Transit to merge.  Ozark seems to slowly be getting more federal funds away from Razorback.  So maybe Razorback will have to consider it more seriously in the near future.

[mcheiss]

Did you hear about how ORT wants to make a permanent line between the Fort Smith area and cities in NW Arkansas.

Apparently they want to have three round trips to and from Ft. Smith to NW Arkansas. Each route would stop at several stops in each big city in NW Arkansas.

They seem to be convinced that they can persuade NW Arkansas companies into help paying for the transit route. The Morning News mentioned that Superior Industries was looking for around 100 jobs in Fayetteville, and people in Fort Smith seemed anxious about it.

Do you think that this would work?

[Mith242]

mcheiss, on Oct 13 2005, 03:58 PM, said:

Did you hear about how ORT wants to make a permanent line between the Fort Smith area and cities in NW Arkansas.

Apparently they want to have three round trips to and from Ft. Smith to NW Arkansas. Each route would stop at several stops in each big city in NW Arkansas.

They seem to be convinced that they can persuade NW Arkansas companies into help paying for the transit route. The Morning News mentioned that Superior Industries was looking for around 100 jobs in Fayetteville, and people in Fort Smith seemed anxious about it.

Do you think that this would work?

Yeah I heard about this.  A lot of what I heard revolved around having people who live in Ft Smith being able to come here to northwest Arkansas and work.  I know we have low unemployment and such but it seems odd to have to rely on Ft Smith to fill jobs.  I haven't heard quite so much about this after Katrina and Rita.  I think a number of companies looked forward to having the evacuees come here and hope they stay and fill jobs.  In some ways Ft Smith isn't that far away but I just don't see our metro really expanding and becoming a part of Ft Smith's metro.  I think the Boston Mtns will hinder much development between the two areas.  I think it's more like for our metro to grow towards Joplin.  I've wondered if we'll eventually end up with a very long drawn out metro starting near Fayetteville and spreading all the way up to Joplin somewhere in the future.

[mcheiss]

Mith242, on Oct 13 2005, 04:23 PM, said:

Yeah I heard about this.  A lot of what I heard revolved around having people who live in Ft Smith being able to come here to northwest Arkansas and work.  I know we have low unemployment and such but it seems odd to have to rely on Ft Smith to fill jobs.  I haven't heard quite so much about this after Katrina and Rita.  I think a number of companies looked forward to having the evacuees come here and hope they stay and fill jobs.  In some ways Ft Smith isn't that far away but I just don't see our metro really expanding and becoming a part of Ft Smith's metro.  I think the Boston Mtns will hinder much development between the two areas.  I think it's more like for our metro to grow towards Joplin.  I've wondered if we'll eventually end up with a very long drawn out metro starting near Fayetteville and spreading all the way up to Joplin somewhere in the future.

Superior Industries actually said that they hired 18 Katrina Evacuees, yet all of them walked off.

The low unemployement does scare me a bit, but I think there are enough people out in the MSA to fill in jobs.

[Mith242]

mcheiss, on Oct 13 2005, 08:11 PM, said:

Superior Industries actually said that they hired 18 Katrina Evacuees, yet all of them walked off.

The low unemployement does scare me a bit, but I think there are enough people out in the MSA to fill in jobs.

Actually they mentioned this story on KNWA today, about busing people from Ft Smith.  I guess I still have a hard time imagining that it would be cost effective to bus people from Ft Smith every work day to work in Fayetteville.  What if gas prices went up more?  I guess I'm also trying to consider why people wouldn't move here from Ft Smith if they could get jobs here.  Granted I imagine finding a place to live here is more expensive than Ft Smith.  But it seems like there's much more entertainment here also than Ft Smith.  No offense to Ft Smith or anything.  Maybe people could do what many others do, live in Springdale and work in Fayetteville?  I just find it odd that Fayetteville is always rated as such a great place to live and we can't get enough people here to fill all the jobs being created.  Maybe we have to get people out of state and risk changing our 'culture' because not enough in-state people will move here.

[mcheiss]

Mith242, on Oct 13 2005, 08:24 PM, said:

Actually they mentioned this story on KNWA today, about busing people from Ft Smith.  I guess I still have a hard time imagining that it would be cost effective to bus people from Ft Smith every work day to work in Fayetteville.  What if gas prices went up more?  I guess I'm also trying to consider why people wouldn't move here from Ft Smith if they could get jobs here.  Granted I imagine finding a place to live here is more expensive than Ft Smith.  But it seems like there's much more entertainment here also than Ft Smith.  No offense to Ft Smith or anything.  Maybe people could do what many others do, live in Springdale and work in Fayetteville?  I just find it odd that Fayetteville is always rated as such a great place to live and we can't get enough people here to fill all the jobs being created.  Maybe we have to get people out of state and risk changing our 'culture' because not enough in-state people will move here.

There's a lot of people at Wal-Mart HQ that live in Fort Smith and drive up to work. I'm sure if gas prices went up, they would consider taking that bus.

I think in Northwest Arkansas we are seeing another flaw, we can't fill all of our jobs. I don't know if there is much of a solution, but this could be a pretty significant negative in the future.

[Mith242]

mcheiss, on Oct 13 2005, 08:28 PM, said:

There's a lot of people at Wal-Mart HQ that live in Fort Smith and drive up to work. I'm sure if gas prices went up, they would consider taking that bus.

I think in Northwest Arkansas we are seeing another flaw, we can't fill all of our jobs. I don't know if there is much of a solution, but this could be a pretty significant negative in the future.

I knew a lot of people lived outside the metro and commuted in but I guess I didn't realize that there were that many who would live as far away as Ft Smith.  As I said before the only thing I can think of that would be keeping people from living here is the cost of real estate and housing prices.  That and maybe there are people who want to live in an area with a smaller town feel.  I would say maybe there's more incentive for us to develop more tech and higher paying jobs.  But you figure many people at the Wal-mart HQ can't be doing too bad.  Does anyone else have any suggestions why so many people would chose to live so far away?  I can understand some instances like in Little Rock, where people feel it is safer to live further away from the city core.  But northwest Arkansas is known for having a low crime rate.