9 replies to this topic

[patrickom]

Toledo and Lansing are similar-sized metro areas. Each is blue-collar. Each is surrounded by mostly rural population. And we certainly have seen riots in Mid-Michigan, though they've been of a slightly different nature than the recent Toledo melee.

So could thishappen here? What would be the implications?

Reply here to talk about how Lansing would fare, or on the Toledothread for more general discusison.

Edited by patrickom, 16 October 2005 - 02:16 PM.

[Lmichigan]

No.  Unlike Toledo (which I was surprised to find out), Lansing has no solid/organized gang culture.  Look at the crime rates for each.  Toledo is a more violent city.  In fact, it's much more akin to Detroit and Flint in culture, than Lansing.  For a city this size, Lansing does pretty well with race relations in comparison to many others.  People here generally get along.

Edited by Lmichigan, 16 October 2005 - 02:58 PM.

[ZachariahDaMan]

I agree, even though it suprised me that something like that happened in Toledo I would never expect it to happen in Lansing.  The reason for the march was because in that north part of Toledo crime is pretty common, Lansing doesn't really seem to have areas that are as bad as that.

Lansing Crime: http://www.cityratin...ansing&state=MI
Toledo Crime: http://www.cityratin...Toledo&state=OH

[hood]

I've been and still am without a computer for awhile so I'm borrowing someone elses. But I have to comment on this, first Toledo is nearly twice the size of Lansing at over 300,000 people, it has an equal or lower crime rate than Lansing:
Toledo:
Murder - 4.8
Rape - 49.4
Robbery - 290.3
Fel. Assault - 343.9
Burglary - 1506
Larceny - 4329
Auto Theft - 866.2

Lansing:
Murder - 7.8
Rape - 87.2
Robbery - 197
Fel. Assault - 633
Burglary - 995.1
Larceny - 3683.7
Auto Theft - 341

As for this happening in Lansing, both cities are about 25% black, while Lansing has more hispanics and asians.  But this would almost certainly not happen in Lansing. Lansing is one of the least segregated cities in america, virtually every neighborhood has Black, White and Hispanic people, and Lansing has very good race relations, not perfect, but very good.

[GRDadof3]

Did you guys read the article at all?  I hardly think the "gangs" were to blame for inciting this riot:


A member of the National Socialist Movement confronts protesters on Stickney Avenue on the grounds of Woodward High School in Toledo.
http://toimages.us.p...Ref=V2&MaxW=240

Edited by GRDadof3, 18 October 2005 - 02:00 PM.

[Lmichigan]

Yes, they were.  The rioting happened AFTER the neo-nazi's left the area, and what followed was an embarrassment to the citizens of Toledo.  I'm a Black man, and was sick to see how the gangs played RIGHT into the neo-nazi's hand.  But, please, let's not turn this into who was right and wrong (IMO, both sides were).  This is about whether or not something like this could happen in Lansing.  And, though this could happen anywhere, it is so far out there for this community it's not even funny.  If there is one thing Lansing is good with it's race relations.  Actually, there are more mixed couples and children here than any other major city in the state (source: census)

Edited by Lmichigan, 18 October 2005 - 02:18 PM.

[GRDadof3]

No, the neo-nazis "National Socialist Movement" were still there, and were antagonizing people near the High School (from the article).  And is that the same Lansing where blacks blocked off Logan Street (all five lanes) to traffic because the city would not re-name it Martin Luther King Boulevard, and came close to a riot.  I would be surprised if any city came out un-scathed with this "white-power" group around causing problems.  Don't get me wrong, both sides went too far.

[ZachariahDaMan]

GRDadof3, on Oct 18 2005, 03:57 PM, said:

Did you guys read the article at all?  I hardly think the "gangs" were to blame for inciting this riot:


A member of the National Socialist Movement confronts protesters on Stickney Avenue on the grounds of Woodward High School in Toledo.
http://toimages.us.p...Ref=V2&MaxW=240

Yes I actually read the article.  When did I say anything to make it look like I didn't?

[superNOVA]

Whenever there is a riot, black or white - why do the people always destroy their own neighborhoods...

[Lmichigan]

What else are they going to destroy?  And in particular, in this situation where an outside antagonist can come in and leave at will?  That's the whole thing about a riot, it rarely has rhyme or reason.  It's simply people lashing out angrily at anyone they can.  It's always nonsensical in the end.

Now, we can argue that groups hate groups should be banned altogether, and I would agree with that (to a certain extent, because censorship can be worse than admission of these groups).  But, you can not justify people destroying their own neighborhoods, and acting out like children would.  In the end, who did this hurt?  Certainly not the neo-nazi's.  Not only that, as I already said, they fulfilled the prophecies of the hate mongers.

Violence never wins answering other violence.  I can be sympathetic to those that feel wronged, heck, I can even be empathetic.  What I will not do is excuse violent and illegal activity, and more importantly, after the fact.