330 replies to this topic

[Frankie811]

brick, on Nov 11 2005, 01:40 PM, said:

At one time the MBTA was thinking of extending the commuter rail line down to Green.  I assume they would use the existing Amtrak lines which run right between Jefferson Blvd. and Post Rd.  You could then put a really short LRT to connect to the terminal from a station there.  This was probably mentioned in the other threads, of course.

No, not other threads. It's in this thread.    Go back to page one so you can catch up.

Edited by Frankie811, 11 November 2005 - 01:08 PM.

[brick]

Frankie811, on Nov 11 2005, 02:08 PM, said:

No, not other threads. It's in this thread.    Go back to page one so you can catch up.

I was talking more about a wider rail system.  However even this thread doesn't answer some pertinent questions including how the schedule will be run and if additional lines need to be added.  I'm not all that familiar with the area around Green but the line south would probably need more tracks.  AFAIK there are only two tracks for several of the bridges etc.  This isn't enough to support regular commuter rail service plus Acela plus regular scheduled Amtrak.  

Also RIPTA will need to put more focus on moving people to the Providence train station as getting a transfer sucks.  I tried once to take RIPTA to Kennedy plaza and then again to the train station so I could take commuter rail to Boston and the experience was bad enough that I just drive to South Attleboro instead.  (not to mention that the T charges a lot extra to commute from Providence )

[Frankie811]

Amtrak is playing hard ball with the state and the MBTA over how their to be compensated for the use of their rail lines. And in another thread you'll read about the possibilty of  MBTA service extending down to North Kingston.

[mr2448]

brick, on Nov 11 2005, 02:19 PM, said:

I was talking more about a wider rail system.  However even this thread doesn't answer some pertinent questions including how the schedule will be run and if additional lines need to be added.  I'm not all that familiar with the area around Green but the line south would probably need more tracks.  AFAIK there are only two tracks for several of the bridges etc.  This isn't enough to support regular commuter rail service plus Acela plus regular scheduled Amtrak.  

Also RIPTA will need to put more focus on moving people to the Providence train station as getting a transfer sucks.  I tried once to take RIPTA to Kennedy plaza and then again to the train station so I could take commuter rail to Boston and the experience was bad enough that I just drive to South Attleboro instead.  (not to mention that the T charges a lot extra to commute from Providence )

Presently there is a third set of tracks being being built to facilitate the Quonset Point industrial area. This will also be used for the extended commuter line to Wickford. A forth siding set might be built at each station
for layovers.

Except for the Attleboro station with 4 sets of tracks, the Prov-Bos line has only two sets of track that handle all the traffic without conflict.

Mark

[Frankie811]

Frankie811, on Nov 11 2005, 02:28 PM, said:

Amtrak is playing hard ball with the state and the MBTA over how their to be compensated for the use of their rail lines. And in another thread you'll read about the possibilty of  MBTA service extending down to North Kingston.

http://www.projo.com...il.23d55c0.html

[Recchia]

The new transportation bill has tons of money in it for both phase I (TF Green/Wickford Junction) and phase II (Cranston, East Greenwich, Kingston) commuter rail service.  Phase II money is for planning however.

[markOne]

brick, on Nov 11 2005, 02:19 PM, said:

Also RIPTA will need to put more focus on moving people to the Providence train station as getting a transfer sucks.  I tried once to take RIPTA to Kennedy plaza and then again to the train station so I could take commuter rail to Boston and the experience was bad enough that I just drive to South Attleboro instead.  (not to mention that the T charges a lot extra to commute from Providence :( )

I have to agree with this point.  The rail and buss services are not well coordinated.  The transfer system from outlying neighborhoods to KP and then to the train station is inconvenient at best.  I don't mind walking from KP to the train station in nice weather or when I am not in a rush, but I could not make that my commute.

Reasons my wife can't commute to Boston using RIPTA -> MBTA Commuter Rail (aka why I get up so early to drive her to the train):
in bad weather the walk from KP to the station is no fun (try it in ice and snow)
she carries lots of stuff, again making the walk no fun
Line 42 (Hope St.)  first buss of the day arrives in KP at 5:51 giving her 15 minutes to make it to the train.  Very doable in good weather IF the buss is running on time.
She would have to leave the house at 5:35 to make the buss, now she leaves at 5:55.
Line 49 (Camp St.) could be a possibility but it doesn’t even run that early.

One of the biggest problems is that the busses never run on time, and things like typical traffic and the time it takes to pick up passengers are not the problem.  Those are predictable.  They can be scheduled around.  How can they expect the buss to go from Hope and Rochambeau to Hope and Olney in 3-4 minutes all day long?  What about rush hour variance? The drivers have no hope of running on time. (More on this in the RIPTA thread later) *steps off soapbox*

By the way, the fare from South Attleboro to Boston is $5.50 and from Pvd it is $6.00.  I think they made the price more reasonable in the past year or so.  A commuter rail pass is  $200 that lets you ride the entire MBTA system 7 days a week (with a guest on Sundays).  Many Boston companies subsidize passes for their employees so they don’t have to provide parking.

[Recchia]

I hear this, I used to take the bus to KP every morning and then walk to the DOT (right across from State House) through the train station. Now I could've transferred to another bus and/or gold trolley instead of walking from KP through the train station up to the DOT, but even though there are something like 4 buses that run that route, plus the trolley, NONE of them were ever at the perfect time for me to just hop on them and make it up there faster than I could just walking.  Every day I'd get up to the building, settle in at my desk, and then see a bus go trudging by.  If theres one thing RIPTA isnt, its convenient.

[pdxstreetcar]

So "by 2008" means Dec 2007?

Quote

(Ultimately the MBTA would extend its service 19 miles south of Providence to North Kingstown, according to the DOT. Eight round trips would be available each weekday.

The North Kingston Station, is that the Kingston Station?

Quote

Shore Line East, a commuter rail line that runs between New London and New Haven, has expressed interest in expanding its service north to Warwick, Capaldi said.

Sounds Good... You'd be able to take commuter rail from Boston to NYC although you'd have to take 3 seperate trains.  Somehow I wonder how this Kingston-New london link would happen... more disputes over how to pay for a service running into another state, plus that area around the CT/RI border isnt exactly the most populated area and also happens to be Acela's fastest stretch.

Then again who knows this whole MBTA extension to Wickford could be delayed yet again if the Northeast Corridor is privatized and Amtrak is dismantled, afterall Amtrak's best president ever was just fired a few days ago.

Edited by pdxstreetcar, 12 November 2005 - 01:29 PM.

[Cotuit]

Shoreline East to Warwick? Wait, that's crazy! I assume this would be so that New London can have rail access to T.F. Green, but is the demand really there? Amtrak (if it survives) will run from New London to T.F. Green, does Shoreline East just want to supplement that service? And if so, wouldn't it be better to run it all the way to Providence, if you're going to Green, might as well go all the way to Providence. I'm sure the demand for the service would increase slightly with service between Providence and New London.

There's a weird overlap that's hard to close. I wonder if Mass., RI, and CT can get it together to run a proper regional rail service between New York and Boston if Amtrak ends up being dismantled. Would we get the Acela coaches?

[Recchia]

Kingston station would be the existing Amtrak Kingston (URI) station.  The North Kingstown station would be Wickford Junction.  Not surprised about the Shoreline East extension, the original study for commuter rail back in the 90's had that extension as a possibility.

[Frankie811]

http://www.pbn.com/c...s.php/id/117882

[mental757]

The Shore Line East service would link only to TFG since Amtrak will NOT be stopping at the Warwick station.  They would grab the airport traffic that Amtrak will ignore.  SLE would be foolish to go up to the city since they'd be competing with Amtrak there.  SLE could also grab a bit of Navy traffic to/from the airport/Groton and even some gamblers going to the Woods or the Sun.  

Look for Wickford Junction to up and running sooner rather than later.  Althoug not mentioned, Westerly (I think) has a station that will come into play in all this.  Once it's complete, we'll have stops in Westerly, Kingston (URI), Wickford (NK), EG, TFG/Warwick, the city and perhaps Pawtucket.

These would be the MBTA or future similar branded trains while SLE could/might do some of these as well.  I think SLE would be wise to grab the southern stops while MBTA just goes north and time the schedules (with more RIPTA busses) to all meet up...

Oh, by the way, the things I'nm hearing about the intermodal are painting a real sweet picture of the amenities that those renderings might allude to.  The people mover to the terminal will be cool too.  I'll keep y'all posted on what I hear...

Edited by mental757, 14 December 2005 - 08:56 PM.

[Recchia]

Amtrak initially won't stop at the airport, but in the future aren't they planning too (the Regionals, not the Acela)?

[DaveRPI]

"Shoreline East to Warwick? Wait, that's crazy! I assume this would be so that New London can have rail access to T.F. Green, but is the demand really there? Amtrak (if it survives) will run from New London to T.F. Green..." - Cotuit

>>> the line from "New London to Warwick" really has another name... its the line from "Foxwoods/Mohegan Sun to TF Green"

I like...good business decision for those casinos. maybe we should negotiate a subsidy from them for the cost of running the commuter rail...

[Cotuit]

DaveRPI, on Dec 15 2005, 09:23 AM, said:

>>> the line from "New London to Warwick" really has another name... its the line from "Foxwoods/Mohegan Sun to TF Green"

I like...good business decision for those casinos. maybe we should negotiate a subsidy from them for the cost of running the commuter rail...

But Shoreline East doesn't go to the Casinos directly. One would have to get on a bus in New London. Will people take a train to a bus when they can drive faster. Isn't the most direct route to the casinos from Providence via Route 6, making New London a rather circuitous route to get there? Not to mention that people would need to drive to the airport and pay to park there to use this service.

If a spur service actually went to the casinos (and with the Utopia proposal looming, maybe that will happen), this would all seem more feesible to me.

It would probably be good for people coming into T.F. Green who are on their way to the casinos, but it doesn't really seem like a viable option for Rhode Islanders going to the casinos.

Edited by Cotuit, 15 December 2005 - 08:29 AM.

[mental757]

Cotuit, on Dec 15 2005, 09:28 AM, said:

But Shoreline East doesn't go to the Casinos directly. One would have to get on a bus in New London. Will people take a train to a bus when they can drive faster. Isn't the most direct route to the casinos from Providence via Route 6, making New London a rather circuitous route to get there? Not to mention that people would need to drive to the airport and pay to park there to use this service.

If a spur service actually went to the casinos (and with the Utopia proposal looming, maybe that will happen), this would all seem more feesible to me.

It would probably be good for people coming into T.F. Green who are on their way to the casinos, but it doesn't really seem like a viable option for Rhode Islanders going to the casinos.

The quickest way to the casinos is 95S to N Stonington CT exit (2nd or 3rd exit into CT from RI).  A bus from the airport is already running to Mohegan Sun, the rail service would simply tap a small proportion of the casino bound traffic that don;'t want to rent a car.  A bus from New London station up to the casinos would be fine for the gambler looking to save on thier transportation costs to subsidize thier gamling budget.  Gamblers also don;t have lots of baggage to tote around either, making the train/bud deal plausible in that respect.

Since Groton has lost all meanigful air service, the entire New London/Groton/Navy base area relies on PVD for air travel since BDL is MUCH farther and less direct.  The SLE extension to TFG would serve theis area well.

Very few, but some local folks will consider using the SLE service (I must say IF it actually happens) to the casinos.  Those that plan on having excessive adult beverages at the casinos could take advantage of not driving, as well as many of the folks connecting from the north on MBTA via Warwick station.

[DaveRPI]

IF WARWICK OR RI DOES NOT DO SOMETHING FAST ABOUT THEIR STATION DISTRICT I'M GONNA GO BANANAS... START BUILDING NOW!  

http://www.boston.co...dote_to_sprawl/

"WESTWOOD -- Two familiar names in Massachusetts commercial real estate are joining up to replace a worn-out industrial park with a $1.5 billion city in the suburbs, where people would live, eat, shop, work, work out, and hang out, right at one of region's busiest transportation hubs.

Cabot, Cabot & Forbes of New England Inc. and New England Development of Newton are busy drawing up plans for Westwood Station, a 4.5-million-square-foot development that would transform 130 underused acres into homes for 1,000 families, and offices or shopping destinations for thousands more."

>>> How many places in RI could you see fitting the same bill or having potential for this type of development??? let's see what you guys think!!!

[Frankie811]

DaveRPI, on Jan 17 2006, 09:44 AM, said:

IF WARWICK OR RI DOES NOT DO SOMETHING FAST ABOUT THEIR STATION DISTRICT I'M GONNA GO BANANAS... START BUILDING NOW!  

This project received a good chunk of money from the transportation bill that Bush signed several months ago so I'm not sure what's holding this up. Warwick's Mayor Avedisian seems to be supporting it so I don't see any real opposition.

[mental757]

progress, while still slow, is still being made on this.  there are so many agencies and private industry entities that have to agree on thousands of details on everyhting from how to build it, with what, with who's money and who will maintain it, etc.

I'm hopeful for some meaningful news within a month...