644 replies to this topic

[twoshort]

Uh, did you guys miss the bike rack in the plans?  Doesn't that alone make it a 'village' concept?

[andrew.w]

I guess you could say that seeing people dining out front will help draw other customers in.  At least it works with sidewalk seating in urban areas.  But who is really going to want to sit outside and watch / hear the Beltline Traffic.  At the very least I would have expected them to put the patio on one of the side elevations.

I actually don't mind the big blank wall and the giant graphic, as some side has to have the kitchen, but I think they missed an opportunity.  If the big blank wall faced East Beltline (or even had its side to the road), that graphic wall would make a great and appropriate billboard.

[GRDadof3]

andrew.w, on 28 July 2011 - 09:38 PM, said:

I guess you could say that seeing people dining out front will help draw other customers in.  At least it works with sidewalk seating in urban areas.  But who is really going to want to sit outside and watch / hear the Beltline Traffic.  At the very least I would have expected them to put the patio on one of the side elevations.

I actually don't mind the big blank wall and the giant graphic, as some side has to have the kitchen, but I think they missed an opportunity.  If the big blank wall faced East Beltline (or even had its side to the road), that graphic wall would make a great and appropriate billboard.

What they should have done was built on the NW corner of that area of the village, and put the patio and front door facing the main drive into the village.  Then they could have seating facing the village where there will be more pedestrians (assuming), visible from the East Beltline. Two birds with one stone.

[arcturus]

Why all the 'shoulda, woulda, coulda' talk now?  Community/neighborhood antipathy during the input and planning stage?

[Veloise]

arcturus, on 30 July 2011 - 09:08 AM, said:

Why all the 'shoulda, woulda, coulda' talk now?  Community/neighborhood antipathy during the input and planning stage?

Unless a neighbor lived close enough to be noticed, and attended the planning commission meeting, there'd be no public input to the design.

[GRDadof3]

arcturus, on 30 July 2011 - 09:08 AM, said:

Why all the 'shoulda, woulda, coulda' talk now?  Community/neighborhood antipathy during the input and planning stage?

I think most people in the City of GR don't even know that area is in the city, and don't really care what is built there.  Plus, the planning of this project went on for I believe 4 or 5 years.  Who has the stamina to keep up with that?

[fotoman311]

Today's Yehuda Moon comic really struck a chord with me and with this development (not to mention the Celebration "Village" next door, and twoshort's recent "Uh, did you guys miss the bike rack in the plans? Doesn't that alone make it a 'village' concept?" comment).

Start on 7-17's comic and read forward if you want to see the backstory.  And if you're a fan of Yehuda Moon, this B&W flashback seems to be a major development in the backstory of his character.

http://www.yehudamoo...date=2011-08-04

Edited by fotoman311, 04 August 2011 - 06:14 AM.

[Veloise]

PF Changs has been running this ad for a couple of weeks:
Restaurant Manager/Hospitality Manager (just search on it)

[GRDadof3]

The horses have been erected on the PF Chang site.  Remind me again why everyone is so enamored with this place?

[gvsusean]

GRDadof3, on 25 September 2011 - 10:52 AM, said:

The horses have been erected on the PF Chang site. Remind me again why everyone is so enamored with this place?

becuase its the first crappy, $5 all-you-can-eat chinese restaurant with the audacity to charge $70 for 2 people.... i figure people are generally dumb and are willing to go just because they look fancy and will say its good just because its expensive..

[GRDadof3]

gvsusean, on 26 September 2011 - 12:51 AM, said:

becuase its the first crappy, $5 all-you-can-eat chinese restaurant with the audacity to charge $70 for 2 people.... i figure people are generally dumb and are willing to go just because they look fancy and will say its good just because its expensive..

LOL, I wonder how that will go over in frugal Grand Rapids.

[dbrock1046]

All you can eat? You obviously have the wrong place. There are no all you can eat options available there at all. Though I am not a huge fan of chains, I will say that the food is good there.

Additionally, lots of people are looking forward to this opening up and I think it will be a big draw for that area.

[RegalTDP]

(deleted)

Edited by RegalTDP, 26 September 2011 - 10:54 AM.

[GRDadof3]

Draw for the area?  That area does not need any more "draw."  

For those looking forward to it, PF Chang is known for.... ?  It has really good ..... because they..... like no one else. (fill in the blanks)

[RegalTDP]

GRDadof3, on 25 September 2011 - 10:52 AM, said:

The horses have been erected on the PF Chang site. Remind me again why everyone is so enamored with this place?

I'll admit it, for me it's an ego thing.  I hate other cities having stuff we don't.  It's petty, but it still bothers me.

Yes, given the choice, I would prefer to eat somewhere downtown or uptown.  But I think it's a good thing if the GR market is vibrant enough to support national chains.

[Jippy]

RegalTDP, on 26 September 2011 - 10:57 AM, said:

I'll admit it, for me it's an ego thing. I hate other cities having stuff we don't. It's petty, but it still bothers me. Yes, given the choice, I would prefer to eat somewhere downtown or uptown. But I think it's a good thing if the GR market is vibrant enough to support national chains.

Dearest Regal, resist the urge! Seattle, Portland, Chicago, New York, San Fran are not world renowned cities because they contain chain restaurants. Truly successful cities are in the business of shuttering chains because no one goes there anymore. These chains just perpetuate sodium-filled sprawl. No outsider is ever going to give us cred because "we got our PFs too". That respect comes from bustling urban corridors and unique culture, amenities and businesses.

[RegalTDP]

Jippy, on 26 September 2011 - 12:33 PM, said:

No outsider is ever going to give us cred because "we got our PFs too".

That's not exactly true.  Outsiders do notice these things.  The ones I talk to, anyway.  Maybe that's why it bothers me more (I kinda sorta admitted it wasn't rational )

I'm not trying to start another "Chains vs. Local" back-and-forth again, because it's not an either-or.  I want bustling urban corridors and unique culture, amenities and businesses too!  My point was that, when a profitable national chain (especially one that doesn't franchise, like P.F. Chang) is willing to set up shop in our area, that reflects well on our market's viability.  It's a good thing.  It may be a sprawly restaurant in a lame development, but it's still an investment on their part.

And that goes for all retail, not just restaurants.  So GR's trying to market itself to a younger, more urban demographic?  That's great, but how do you know if the efforts are working?  I'm not a statistician, so I wouldn't know scientifically.  But I will say that when labels like Anthropologie are willing to come into our town, build from the ground up, and open a new store, that's a positive sign that we're getting somewhere.

Edited by RegalTDP, 27 September 2011 - 11:32 AM.

[dbrock1046]

I don't think I could have said it better!

[GRDadof3]

RegalTDP, on 27 September 2011 - 07:55 AM, said:

That's not exactly true. Outsiders do notice these things. The ones I talk to, anyway. Maybe that's why it bothers me more (I kinda sorta admitted it wasn't rational ) I'm not trying to start another "Chains vs. Local" back-and-forth again, because it's not an either-or. I want bustling urban corridors and unique culture, amenities and businesses too! My point was that, when a profitable national chain (especially one that doesn't franchise, like P.F. Chang) is willing to set up shop in our area, that reflects well on our market's viability. It's a good thing. It may be a sprawly restaurant in a lame development, but it's still an investment on their part. And that goes for all retail, not just restaurants. So GR's trying to market itself to a younger, more urban demographic? That's great, but how do you know if the efforts are working? I'm not a statistician, so I wouldn't know scientifically. But I will say that when labels like Anthropologie are willing to come into our town, build from the ground up, and open a new store, that's a positive sign that we're getting somewhere.

I hear what you're saying in some circumstances, when it comes to very unique very specialized retail and restaurant chains that are very selective about their locations.  But PF Chang?  Lansing has had one for a while.

[joeDowntown]

I agree. The fact that certain chains see Grand Rapids as viable is indicative of our market viability. I'm sure I'll still probably eat at favorite local chinese restaurants 99% of the time, but I'm glad to see them here.

I think the same thing goes for Whole Foods or Trader Joe's. We have some really nice grocery chains in GR (heck, where GR is their hometown) but everyone gets worked up in a later about getting one in GR. It has a certain status symbol that says "other people find us important". We, more than anyone have beaten the Whole Foods and Trader Joe's topic to death (myself included), so I'm fine with PF Changs. I hope more stores follow suit. I don't think it would hurt think these chains will have an impact on downtown or Uptown restaurants...

Joe

RegalTDP, on 27 September 2011 - 07:55 AM, said:

That's not exactly true. Outsiders do notice these things. The ones I talk to, anyway. Maybe that's why it bothers me more (I kinda sorta admitted it wasn't rational ) I'm not trying to start another "Chains vs. Local" back-and-forth again, because it's not an either-or. I want bustling urban corridors and unique culture, amenities and businesses too! My point was that, when a profitable national chain (especially one that doesn't franchise, like P.F. Chang) is willing to set up shop in our area, that reflects well on our market's viability. It's a good thing. It may be a sprawly restaurant in a lame development, but it's still an investment on their part. And that goes for all retail, not just restaurants. So GR's trying to market itself to a younger, more urban demographic? That's great, but how do you know if the efforts are working? I'm not a statistician, so I wouldn't know scientifically. But I will say that when labels like Anthropologie are willing to come into our town, build from the ground up, and open a new store, that's a positive sign that we're getting somewhere.