158 replies to this topic

[scnative]

^ I try to practice that with many of my purchases including food - choosing local business.

I suppose I should visit the other thread about Columbia's best restaurants.  Get that one started back up so we can spread the word on the non-chain options that we do have.

[CarolinaSouth]

I guess since Columbia can't apparently support a P.F. Chang's {but Greenville can  **not a diss **} I guess we should try to get a Pei Wei Asian Diner. I mean it's owned by P.F. Chang's and nothing is over $10...buying in to the fact that Columbian's are frugal fast food eaters. I mean if Little Rock, Ak and Amarillo, Tx can get one of these and Columbia can't...i say we give up hope on gettin other trendy chains and just be thankful we "lucked up" and got a Ruth Chris.

Edited by CarolinaSouth, 23 July 2008 - 07:50 PM.

[waccamatt]

I really fail to see why having a particular chain restaurant is a status symbol. It is a little different with department stores and other things that have no locally-owned option any more, but it is different with restaurants. I've eaten at PF Changs and there's nothing wrong with them, but I like M Vista and M Cafe better, for instance.

[Spartan]

Columbia is also unique in that you have two major retail districts with duplicate stores. I think this is unusual for a metro the size of Columbia. Big city chains may have a problem picking one over the other since there is not a clear concentration of wealthy people.

[scnative]

Spartan, on Jul 24 2008, 11:03 AM, said:

Columbia is also unique in that you have two major retail districts with duplicate stores. I think this is unusual for a metro the size of Columbia. Big city chains may have a problem picking one over the other since there is not a clear concentration of wealthy people.

As Columbia grows this will be a good thing.  Everything will not be in one majorly conjested area (although Harbison is pretty bad sometimes).  I know this isn't the thread for this but what is stopping Columbia from becoming a Charlotte?

[Chi2Midlands]

waccamatt, on Jul 23 2008, 01:34 PM, said:

Native, why not frequent locally-owned establishments instead of chains? Columbia has a wealth of wonderful locally-owned restaurants that, IMO, are better than chains anyway. This is additionally good because their rprofits stay here instead of being shuffled off to Buffalo or somewhere else out of state.

I'm with waccamatt here - the local establishments may not have the exact same 5-spice fried tofu as P.F. Chang's but as I mentioned they are competitive, and I feel they are attentive to the local clientele.  In the case of Miyo's and Red Bowl, I really feel I am contributing to local folks who work hard and care and the local economy.  Miyo's also has upscale branches like MCafe and MVista.  We also have many locally-owned Greek/Italian places that have pretty good fare, and some of those places are opening upscale branches as well, even in the 'burbs (e.g., owners of Pontiac House of Pizza and Bobby's House of Pizza have opened Village Bistro and Santorini Grill, respectively, in the NE).

Besides, speaking for my family, we go up to Charlotte often enough (visiting friends/family, flying out of Charlotte airport, shopping, etc.) that we usually swing by a national chain that's not present in Columbia to satiate that occasional urge, whether it be Maggiano's, PF Changs, Cheesecake Factory, etc.  It's really not that bad of a trip when you consider similar folks in exurban Atlanta or DC don't have that much different of a drive to get to such places in their own metros.

[Chi2Midlands]

Spartan, on Jul 24 2008, 11:03 AM, said:

Columbia is also unique in that you have two major retail districts with duplicate stores. I think this is unusual for a metro the size of Columbia. Big city chains may have a problem picking one over the other since there is not a clear concentration of wealthy people.

Overall I would say that is a strength, especially for local folks who don't want to go the other side of town.  Had VAS not been built then Harbison would have remained and continue to grow as the region's premier (suburban) retail destination, and could have perhaps landed a PF Changs, etc.  I don't know what Greenville has that we don't - do they have one major mall/retail district that attracts the lion's share of development?  I mean, you do have Simpsonville/Mauldin, Taylors/Greer, and spreading out towards Seneca/Clemson, Anderson, and Spartanburg.

[Chi2Midlands]

CarolinaSouth, on Jul 23 2008, 09:49 PM, said:

I guess since Columbia can't apparently support a P.F. Chang's {but Greenville can  **not a diss **} I guess we should try to get a Pei Wei Asian Diner. I mean it's owned by P.F. Chang's and nothing is over $10...buying in to the fact that Columbian's are frugal fast food eaters. I mean if Little Rock, Ak and Amarillo, Tx can get one of these and Columbia can't...i say we give up hope on gettin other trendy chains and just be thankful we "lucked up" and got a Ruth Chris.

I agree that a fast-casual version of an upscale major chain like PF Chang can definitely work.  Pei Wei would work great in the Harbison area.  Corner Bistro (casual version of Maggiano's) would also work in the Midlands.  It's similar to having, say, an Ann Taylor Loft (which Columbia has), but not the flagship Ann Taylor.  But again, I'm not crying that we don't have them.  We have good local places.  I agree that Little Rock and Amarillo are not that different than Columbia in size, so hopefully it's a matter of time.

Keep in mind with the economy the way it is, don't expect any major moves on retail expansion, especially for upscale chains in a small, somewhat cheapskate market like Columbia.

One thing that baffles me is why the Northeast doesn't have any warehouse chain.  The nearest one is the Sam's Club near Fort Jackson.  I would really prefer a Costco either near Sandhill or near the I-77/Killian exit (there is plenty of land there).

[krazeeboi]

I think it could be possible that Columbia might be cannibalizing itself with multiple retail districts: Harbison, VAS, and Killian's Crossing--which will rival VAS in size--is underway. If the Richland Mall redevelopment ever gets underway, that will be another one.

[Spartan]

scnative, on Jul 24 2008, 11:57 AM, said:

As Columbia grows this will be a good thing.  Everything will not be in one majorly conjested area (although Harbison is pretty bad sometimes).  I know this isn't the thread for this but what is stopping Columbia from becoming a Charlotte?

I certainly don't view Columbia's situation as a bad thing. Especially in the long run. But in the short term it probably does impact what chains choose to locate in Columbia.

IMO Columbia needs the investment of a major fortune 100 corporation the likes BofA or Wachovia to become more Charlotte-like.

[citylife]

Chi2Midlands, on Jul 24 2008, 12:39 PM, said:

Overall I would say that is a strength, especially for local folks who don't want to go the other side of town. Had VAS not been built then Harbison would have remained and continue to grow as the region's premier (suburban) retail destination, and could have perhaps landed a PF Changs, etc. I don't know what Greenville has that we don't - do they have one major mall/retail district that attracts the lion's share of development? I mean, you do have Simpsonville/Mauldin, Taylors/Greer, and spreading out towards Seneca/Clemson, Anderson, and Spartanburg.

Yes they do. The Woodruff Road area in Greenville attracts developments from Magnolia Park to the Shops at Greenridge mainly due to its central location which draws people in from all directions. That's how they were able to get places like PF Changs and Whole Foods Market before Columbia. Village at Sandhill and Killian's Crossing are located a lot further out in the northeast part of Columbia. Both of them should of been built in the core of the metro area.

[citylife]

Chi2Midlands, on Jul 23 2008, 12:46 PM, said:

I think we will come back to the same problem - Columbia is a smaller market that does not have a large, critical mass of reliable upper-middle-income folks who are willing to regularly spend money at a Cheesecake Factory. Same reason why we don't have an REI, a Restoration Hardware, a Pottery Barn, etc. I suppose you could make an argument that either Harbison or VAS MAY be able to support one, and it would be a huge coup, but that is dependent on the continued growth of those areas and more income dollars being spent from households in Ballentine, Chapin, Wildewood, Spring Valley, etc. Putting one downtown poses a similar problem is that, again, you don't have a large enough critical mass of professionals, etc. who can reliably supply revenue. Our downtown is smaller than many suburban "edge cities" like Tysons Corner, VA or Perimeter Mall, GA where a Cheesecake Factory makes a lot of sense. I think you need to be a metro of about 1 million to 1.5 million to really get these chains' attention. Such establishments have only recently opened in larger metros like Charlotte and Raleigh.

Moreover with the economy the way it is now and food prices going way up, it is too much of a risk and challenge for a national chain of restaurants targeting that upper-middle disposable income market to make an investment in a smallish city that has more of a reputation of being a metro of fast-food eaters than destination restaurant-goers.

Honestly I would much rather have a local Thai restaurant in the Northeast than a major destination chain restaurant for the metro or region. I also think such a restaurant would be a more prudent investment.

Just to prove you wrong, Asheville is getting an REI later this year and Greenville is getting one along with the Cheesecake Factory in late 2009/early 2010 at Magnolia Park. Columbia does have the population demographics to support several of the retailers/restaurants you listed. It's just the developments that are happening there are located in the wrong part of the metro area. Like I said, they should be located in the central core of the metro area not in the northeastern part.

[Chi2Midlands]

citylife, on Jul 24 2008, 08:12 PM, said:

Just to prove you wrong, Asheville is getting an REI later this year and Greenville is getting one along with the Cheesecake Factory in late 2009/early 2010 at Magnolia Park. Columbia does have the population demographics to support several of the retailers/restaurants you listed. It's just the developments that are happening there are located in the wrong part of the metro area. Like I said, they should be located in the central core of the metro area not in the northeastern part.

That's interesting.  I think Asheville is a unique case because it is a "boutique town" that has a high number of retirees and other high-disposable-income folks, especially with the area's outdoor recreation opportunities, willing to spend at an REI, etc.

Greenville's geography is more "centered" despite sprawl spreading out along more than corridor (as I mentioned, you have the Simpsonville-Mauldin-Fountain Inn area and the Taylors-Greer area).  The I-385/I-85/Woodruff Road area appears to serve as a true central commercial hub, one that is separate from downtown and can offer a bit more "suburban" upscale amenities like Cheesecake Factory.

But it still baffles me about Columbia not having even a Costco - even Spartanburg's got one at Westgate Mall.

OTOH, supposedly there is the possibility of a Barnes and Noble/Whole Foods/Best Buy strip near VAS.

[TheCarolinaKing]

I personally enjoy P. F. Changs.  My family and I often travel to Charlotte to visit many of its more Middle/Upscale Eateries.  I'm not a big fan of Cheese Cake Factory, besides the Cheesecake, but I think that Columbia could sustain chain restaurants such as these.  I think one of the difficulties currently is that there is no one area that is ideal enough and caters specifically to the Middle/Upper Class.  Columbia has done a great job of maintaining a mix of incomes in every area.  The one area that seems like it may reach a point to where it caters mainly to the Middle/Upper Class is the Forest Acres area.  

Unfortunately I had an unfortunate experience at the ne M Vista.  A friend and I attempted to dine there about a week ago and were definately ignored.  Upon entering were noticed that we were the only patrons at that time, but they were open for business.  One of the wait staff walked from the back and saw us and went back into the kitchen.  My dining partner and I sat at the bar and waited for about 10 minutes, yet not one other worker exsited the kitchen area.  We sat laughing and joking loudly and we could hear a jovial commotion in the kitchen yet no matter how loud we attempted to be to get attention we were unsuccessful.  Finally my dining companion decided to enter the kitchen and let the staff know that there were people waiting to be served.  She noted that they were all joking and asked the one waitress who saw us when we entered why she didn't assit us.  Her response was "Oh yeah I did see them sitting out there..."  Finally one other staff memeber peered around a corner and saw that I was there.  After my dining partner returned on staff memeber came out of the kitchen and begain folding napkins.  Eventually she asked if we would like to see a menu.  We were both very displease with the performance of the staff.  I have been to other of the groups establishments and this is the first time I have experience such a blatent dissregard for patrons.  We eventually ended up accross the street at the Carolina Ale House where we enjoyed a late lunch on the second level patio.

[waccamatt]

Wow, that is an awful experience. I bet if Michelle knew who did that they wouldn't be working there any more!

[scnative]

waccamatt, on Jul 18 2008, 04:19 PM, said:

I don't think PF Chang's is going to open in Columbia anytime soon because the Miyo's/M Cafe/M Vista group has a firm hold on that market in Columbia and for that I am grateful. Unless a chain can bring something to Columbia that a locally-owned establishment can not offer, I'd rather not have them here. By the way, the Miyo's group will be opening in VAS and in Lexington in the near future, also.

What was your source for the opening of Miyo's in VAS and in Lexington?  Any updates?

[waccamatt]

scnative, on Nov 13 2008, 01:48 PM, said:

What was your source for the opening of Miyo's in VAS and in Lexington?  Any updates?

It was in The State around the time that M Vista opened - they stated that after M Vista was established the next markets they would open a restaurant in would be VAS and Lexington.

[krazeeboi]

Spartan, on 24 July 2008 - 09:03 AM, said:

Columbia is also unique in that you have two major retail districts with duplicate stores. I think this is unusual for a metro the size of Columbia. Big city chains may have a problem picking one over the other since there is not a clear concentration of wealthy people.

This is pretty much the reason given for why Columbia lacks in the retail/restaurant department when compared with other peer cities in the area in this article in The State. All of the other elements are there, but the distribution of retail nodes in the metro area works against landing those chains that many residents desire. As others have similarly stated, I think the setup is a good thing for Columbia in the long run, although it has its disadvantages at the moment. I wonder if there's another city of similar size in the country that has the same issue?

[CorgiMatt]

In one place the article makes it sound as though the high-income group is split in two between Harbison and Sandhill, but later it includes downtown's three main districts and Forest Acres as a third area with high enough incomes but still working on critical mass.  So it sounds like some stores might end up putting three locations here, at least the ones that don't locate only in the suburbs.