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#21 TheUrbanCore

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 08:45 AM

Planes, trains and automobiles

The Jacksonville Transportation Authority unveiled its vision for a transportation center headquartered in LaVilla. The Downtown Development Authority is considering an amendment to the downtown master plan to include the $127 million facility, which would provide access to the Skyway, JTA and Greyhound buses and an airport shuttle.

The Skyway station would connect to an Amtrak station via a covered bridge. JTA is expecting Amtrak and Greyhound to base their downtown operations at the transportation center. Greyhound would move out of its current Bay Street building.

The plan includes a renovated Skyway station on West Forsyth Street.

Some members of the DDA are concerned the massive facility would clash with the walkable, residential and retail environment envisioned in the City’s current plan. But JTA said the facility’s landscaping would make LaVilla more pedestrian friendly.



:rofl:

 

#22 TheUrbanCore

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 08:51 AM

The laugh at the end is towards the unfortunate and ironic sentiment at the end.

#23 TheUrbanCore

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 08:53 AM

The DDA's sentiment.  :blush:

#24 Urban_Legend

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 09:58 AM

Here's some pics:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image


It's nothing too impressive, but I'm glad that they plan on moving the Greyhound Station.  I wonder if there's any space for retail in this thing.

#25 Brickell

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 10:30 AM

I've never been there, but from what everybody says, I was wondering if LaVilla is the best place for this as well.  Especially having busses coming in and out all day.  Glad that it's being considered but something like this should be downtown, no?

#26 Urban_Legend

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 10:57 AM

I think they're relying on the train tracks for this project.  They run on the outskirts of downtown, near LaVilla, and that's the only place AmTrak can go.  I'm still not clear on where in LaVilla this is going, but I'm guessing it will be near the Convention Center.

#27 Captain Obvious

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 11:54 AM

Quote

Glad that it's being considered but something like this should be downtown, no?

LaVilla basically is downtown. Nothing really meaningful divides "downtown" from "lavilla" other than the fact that lavilla is a couple blocks west of the CBD. I think the only reason it's even a named neighborhood is because is used to be the black area of town at the turn of the 20th century.

In any event, I am also confused about the site. Is this center planned for the convention center station or the jefferson street station?? Either way, this hub will only be between a 5-10 minute walk from the center of downtown, which is a good distance. Plus, if someone hates walking, the skyway is right there and only 35 cents.

Also, I do think it's a good idea to move the greyhound station further from the CBD. Like it or not, bus stations are FULL of riff-raff, and I do think it's more appropriate to keep them closer to the freeway, rather than in the heart of our CBD. Now if only we had this expansion plan 15 years ago, those assholes wouldn't have demolished 3 historic buildings on the greyhound site back in the late 90s.

Bye the way, I also think the "landscaping" comment is ludicrous. Does anyone have any site plans or renderings besides the ones above? I thought I remembered the plan being relatively urban, but i could be wrong.

#28 Urban_Legend

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 02:39 PM

^I'm pretty sure it will be adjacent to the Convention Center Skyway Station.  Maybe it will be built on one of the JTA's surface parking lots.  That would be nice!  Also, I notice that one of the renderings shows some outdoor urban furniture (i.e. tables w/ umbrellas) so maybe a cafe will be included.

#29 prahaboheme

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Posted 02 October 2004 - 10:30 AM

This will be a great project.  The best way to get people downtown is to have everything converge there...also it will be nice to get the greyhounds in there, because I remember the JAX greyhound station being particularly shady.  This sort of reminds me of Boston's South Station, where the commuter trains, greyhounds, amtracks, all come into one large, and attractive, station.  This could definitely be yet another nice public works project for JAX.

Edited by prahaboheme, 02 October 2004 - 10:31 AM.


#30 scongro

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Posted 09 October 2004 - 09:35 PM

Personally, I think that instead of being next to the Prome Osborne, it should be the Prime Osborne.  Remember, this thing was designed similarly to Penn Station in NYC, so it would function well as a transit hub.  Plus, the rail lines already run next to the thing, and the Osborne Center isn't exactly the world's best Convention Center anyway (the new one probably will be at a different site)

#31 Fruit Cove

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Posted 10 October 2004 - 06:26 AM

welcome to the forum scrongo, where in jacksonville do you live?

#32 Urban_Legend

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Posted 10 October 2004 - 11:38 AM

I totally agree that the Jacksonville Terminal (aka Convention Center) should go back to being a transit hub.  It would be a great site.  But if they build a separate transit center and move the Convention Center elsewhere, the building would need a tenant.  If we couldn't use it as a train station, I think it would be a cool site for MOSH, but who knows if that would ever happen...

#33 vicupstate

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Posted 10 October 2004 - 12:31 PM

Welcome to the forum scongro!

I agree with your position on the Osborn Center, and adding MOSH to it as Urban Legend suggests would be better still.  The Osborn center is too isolated to be the best convention center location IMO.  The Federal Reserve and RR tracks as well as the significant distance from the Landing and it's hotels serve to isolate it quite a bit.

#34 wolfdawg54

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Posted 10 October 2004 - 12:45 PM

It is a good idea to have a transportation hub in jacksonville. It think that it will benefit the city greatly.

#35 scongro

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Posted 10 October 2004 - 06:55 PM

Thanks for the welcome!

I spend part of the time in Avondale, part with my parents in Ponte Vedra, and I am under contract for a townhome that is currently under construction at Kernan @ Wonderwood.

I wanted to move Downtown, but I wanted to own (not rent), and  the options downtown are Berkman (IMO, not worth it for the price), the Shipyards (out of my price range, and who knows when anything will go vertical there), or the Parks at the Cathedral, which is not bad, but I am looking more short term, and I don't feel like it is a good short term investment (hurts to say, because I love downtown)

#36 bobliocatt

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Posted 10 October 2004 - 10:26 PM

Welcome to the forum, Scongro.  I agree that Jax needs a new convention center and that the highest and best use for the Prime Osborne is to return it to its original use.  However, at this time, I don't know where the money to fund it would possibly come from.  With the courthouse situation, it would also be difficult to get the public behind spending millions of dollars for a new center at different location.

#37 scongro

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 09:21 PM

Well, I'm sure people would never go for another better jax plan, but go with me for a second.  The city owns the Prime Osborne, which the JTA would buy (hopefully we wouldn't give it away for too cheap).  The JTA has to buy land and build the building already, and it's not like the Prime Osborne is in bad condition, so the renovations would be too extensive (relatively speaking).

Plus, what about the bed tax we are charging at our hotels?  Between the two of these, I thing we should have a start.

#38 vicupstate

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 10:43 PM

I believe the Convention Center study will recommend that the Bed Tax be bonded to provide the funds for a new center.  Jack Diamond has mentioned that.

What that means is that the current bed tax revenue stream is used to pay off a bond issue to pay for the construction, rather than being spent annually as the money comes in.

I agree with Lakelander that the Courthouse fiasco will strongly dampen any attempt to build/expand a convention center.  That's a real shame, because this is something Jax needs to do now, not later.

#39 scongro

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 12:11 AM

City set to start buying land for rapid transit bus system

29-mile network for express buses would pick up passengers at 27 stations


By DAVID BAUERLEIN
The Times-Union
With $100 million in the bank and a stack of studies on the shelf, Jacksonville will start buying land in 2005 for a 29-mile rapid transit system where express buses zip along in their own lanes while picking up passengers at 27 stations in downtown and the suburbs.

The total bill for building the system over a 20-year period will be $611 million, according to estimates by the Jacksonville Transportation Authority. To make good on the blueprint, the JTA must make headway in winning several hundred million dollars in state and federal support.

That will be a daunting challenge because other cities are competing for the same pot of transit cash, but JTA officials said they're optimistic they can build the system in stages.

"It's been through a lot of variations and a lot of study by a lot of people, including citizens," said Ed Castellani, rapid transit director for the JTA. "How fast it gets used and how fast we can get funding is how fast we are going to get it built."

The $100 million already on hand is from the Better Jacksonville Plan, approved by voters in 2000 with a half-cent sales tax increase.

Most of the plan's $1.5 billion in transportation funding is for roadwork, reflecting the fact that cars are the dominant way for people to get around. As Mayor John Peyton said at a recent town hall meeting in East Arlington, "Everybody on the road wants the person in front of them and the person behind them to ride the buses."

The premise behind rapid transit is that building lanes exclusively for buses will make riding the bus more appealing because buses will travel free and clear of the rush-hour congestion that makes driving a hassle.

"We don't have enough money and enough space to build enough roads," Castellani said, referring to long-range transportation studies that show worsening traffic jams citywide in the next 25 years. "As congestion builds, and it will, people will see the difference between sitting in traffic and the speed of transit."

The journey toward rapid transit began in 1997 when the JTA commissioned a report that envisioned a light rail line running from downtown to Gateway mall in north Jacksonville, a second light rail from downtown to Orange Park in Clay County, a third light rail from downtown to Mandarin, and a "busway" with lanes dedicated for buses from downtown to the Regency Square mall area in Arlington.

JTA dropped the idea of light rail because of the high cost. Instead, all the rapid transit routes would use express buses with an eye toward converting the routes to light rail lines in the future if ridership is high enough.

The 2O-year plan also scaled back the size of the system to bring down the cost. The north leg reaches Gateway mall and the east leg still goes to Regency Square mall. But the southwest legs goes only to Wilson Boulevard in Jacksonville, well short of the Clay County line. The southeast leg stops at Baymeadows Road, rather than continuing to Mandarin.

The JTA has estimated the cost of building the system in two ways. In today's dollars, it would cost $476 million. That cost is comparable to estimates for what it would cost to build the proposed "outer beltway" through Clay County and St. Johns County with a new bridge over the St. Johns River.

Because rapid transit won't be built all at once, the JTA also has taken into account inflation and penciled in the figure of $611 million over the 20-year period.

A city typically pays 25 percent of the cost for building rapid transit, along with a 25 percent contribution by the state and 50 percent from the federal government. Based on that formula, Jacksonville's share of the cost would be $153 million.

The JTA's financial forecasts show the agency can achieve the local match by using the $100 million earmarked in the Better Jacksonville Plan and tapping the JTA's current revenue sources for bus service to get the remaining $53 million.

Castellani said the order in which the different phases are built is tentative. However, the agency will definitely start acquiring right of way in 2005 and expects to spend the $100 million from the Better Jacksonville Plan by 2010.

The JTA is banking on being able to share state Department of Transportation right of way at no cost for the bus lanes. Most of the Better Jacksonville Plan funding will purchase the property for the transit stations, Castellani said.

The JTA's study has identified general areas for stations but not specific pieces of property. One station might be in the northeast corner of Interstate 95 and Baymeadows Road, where a home-building company proposes to build condominiums on what's now the Baymeadows Golf Club course. At a town hall meeting on that proposed development, residents who live along the golf course laughed derisively at the notion that rapid transit would help traffic congestion on Baymeadows Road.

The JTA also faced neighborhood-based opposition when it considered buying land at Atlantic Boulevard and San Pablo Road for a transit site with a park-and-ride lot. The authority pulled the plug on that earlier this year after deciding the future route for rapid transit to the Beaches communities would run down Beach Boulevard.

In cities that already have rapid transit, a growing trend in real estate development is "transit-oriented development" around stations, according to a September report by the Federal Transit Administration. Those living near transit stations own fewer cars than the region as a whole, are more likely to rent an apartment than own a home and prefer living in a denser development where they're close not only to the transit station, but also to stores and restaurants.

"I don't think it's ever too soon to start planning for that," said Jeannie Fewell, director of the city's Department of Planning and Development. "Whether it's too soon for it to reach a point where it's faster for people to get out of their cars and take a dedicated bus [lane], that's really an individual choice."


david.bauerleinjacksonville.com, (904) 359-4581

#40 scongro

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 12:18 AM

While i'd love to see Jacksonville get Rapid Transit, it seems like JTA is taking the wrong direction.  Instead of extending lines to Regency, Gateway, Baymeadows, and Wilson, they should pick two of them, and finish them (like from the Airport to the Avenues).  I'd think there would be a lot more demand for a line from OP to Downtown, rather than just Wilson for example.  I know you have to start somewhere, but if you get Skyway sized ridership, people will scream.

What do you all think?




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