214 replies to this topic

[Urban_Legend]

I know they're planning for a route to the airport.  That'll be an important connection.  I'm glad to hear of some progress on this.  While I wish that we could get Light Rail, I'll settle for the bus thing.  It sounds as if the stations will be nice.  Also, I hope that the new Matthews Bridge will include a dedicated lane for the Regency-bound transit.  Kinda like how the Acosta bridge has a Skyway lane.

If you haven't been to the Rapid Transit site, check it out here.

[bobliocatt]

Its great to see that they aren't wasting anytime getting this thing done.  However, if it were up to me, I'd change a couple of things.

To me it should be mandatory to connect the airport to downtown, with any new line the city choses to do.  I also noticed two routes (downtown-Wilson & downtown-Baymeadows) run, nearly parallel to existing rail right of way.

Based on this, I'd consider running two commuter rail lines in these corridors, one from downtown to ST. AUGUSTINE and the other from Downtown to Orange Park.  With the rest of the remaining BRT money, I'd expand the North and East BRT lines to the airport and the beaches.

In the end, to me, commuter rail seems like a cheaper, quicker, and more viable option.  The tracks are already there and CSX and FEC are both local companies.  The city, JTA or some body should negotiate a deal with these companies, buy a couple of commuter trains, build some stations (nothing to expensive) are start operating the lines.  Just look at Tri-Rail in South Florida for the closet example of what I'm talking about.

[Urban_Legend]

^I agree, the existing tracks should be used for transit.  There's rails next to Roosevelt Blvd that would be perfect for commuter trains.  Oh well, I'm at least thankful that there will be some form of transfer station for the Skyway.  Perhaps that will increase Skyway's ridership.

[scongro]

But since you have the Skyway, why do you have all of the downtown stops?

To see what I'm talking about, check out the print article (the maps do not appear online).

To me, you have a stop at the intermodal center, and maybe a stop at the stadium (since a line goes over the Mathews anyway), and that's it.

[crazy cuban]

the bus rapid transit line is a good idea and it has been installed in south miami, down by the dadeland area.  and about once a week there was somebody who made a right turn when they weren't supposed to ...  wham....  accident.  this means that now traffic will have a red light for right turns..  Light rail i think would be a better way to go, but to much infrastructure>>>  a rail system like the tri-rail is probably the best option, it has the ablility to cover the longest distances with a system that is partially inplace.  the only issue i can see with this is the amount of cargo traffic on our rails.. ever been at the sunbeam rail crossing???

along time ago, there was talk of converting the prime osborn back to train service.  this is jacksonville's grand central, 30th street station, it could truly be an intermodal...  the convergence of amtrak, busses, skyway all in one place and central to downtown.  let's let jack diamond build his new convention center and bring trains back to downtown ... plus since the major tracks are there>>>  commuter trains will work as well.... of course we can put all these things in action, but unitl jacksonvill-ians give up the car>>> ???

thoughts????

Thanks

[merlin]

crazy cuban, on Nov 30 2004, 08:16 AM, said:

of course we can put all these things in action, but unitl jacksonvill-ians give up the car>>> ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

give up the car???  Are you MAD man?  As someone who has lived abroad and in other major cities, this is a fundamental mentality that is going to be extremely hard to break around here.  Granted it will be much easier to do this if the infrastructure was in place to move people in a timely fashion around the downtown and the city.  I think turning the Osborne back into a viable station is a fantastic idea and without a doubt it could truly become an intermodal.  This revitallization of the Osborne I think would help to bring even more new construction it's way and really extend the boundaries of "downtown proper".

[Urban_Legend]

Last I heard, JTA was building their own intermodal center, which will probably leave out the Prime Osbourne.  Oh well, it really would've been awesome.

[crazy cuban]

Urban_Legend, on Nov 30 2004, 12:13 PM, said:

Last I heard, JTA was building their own intermodal center, which will probably leave out the Prime Osbourne.  Oh well, it really would've been awesome.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well, as always..  none of the city parts can seem to work together on things.  This subject of the prime osborn was raised about 4-5 years ago at a panel discussion on Jacksonville during arch week here.  Seeing all of JTA's wondeful taste in architecture i can't wait to see the intermodal???  nothing like a 100' long hip roof.  can you imagine returning the main hall of the osborn back to its previous life and coming off of a bus or train, you would think this was a major metropolitan city...  allow the disappointment to hit you later.  If you look at the bus lanes timeline , the project will take about 20 yrs. to complete, and with the population growing at the rate it is, it most likely will be to late by then, but this is the way the system works...  never think ahead, just work to catch up.

in the end it all comes down to cost...  400 million here, 2 billion there?  it takes about a year to lay asphalt on a street??  

Merlin, yep...  i am reminded of a PBS special on the car that had a college professor standing at Detroit's version of the skyway explaining why it doesn't work...  "because there should be a sign at the gate that says 'Loser enter here'" and then stated "it's a great way to take an air conditioned tour of the ruins of Detroit."  i think when gas hits $5 a gallon but we are still making the same amount of money...  you'll see alot of parked SUV's at the bus stop.

Thanks.

[JaxNole]

Original Article



Video: Proposed Transportation Hub

By Melissa Ross
First Coast News

JACKSONVILLE, FL -- State transportation officials and the JTA are working on long-simmering plans to bring a huge new transportation complex to the Prime Osborn Convention Center that would unite Amtrak, Greyhound, JTA buses, and the Skyway in one big hub.

The facility would cost $127 million, with both federal and state money funding the project.

Council president Elaine Brown is meeting with Mayor Peyton next week to discuss plans for the proposed "Jacksonville Transportation Center," or JTC. The center would also feature a hotel, retail space, and pedestrian walkways.

"It could be the hottest place in Jacksonville," said Brown, who conceded getting the funding will be a challenge.

[bobliocatt]

It will be interesting to hear more detailed information about this.  If this can be pulled off, it would definately be a big positive for the Prime Osborn and what's left of LaVilla, as well as getting Greyhound out of the heart of downtown.

[bobliocatt]

Transportation hub grows into $127 million plan

By DAVID BAUERLEIN
The Times-Union

A plan to transform part of downtown Jacksonville's LaVilla neighborhood into a transportation hub for trains, buses and the Skyway has grown much more ambitious and expensive since officials presented a previous proposal in 2000.

The new "vision" for a Jacksonville Transportation Center would cost $127 million.

The state Department of Transportation is sending the proposal to local, state and federal agencies for their feedback. But as before, there is no construction funding for the project, which has been discussed since the early 1990s. The state hopes to get 70 percent of the cost financed by the federal government.

In 2000, the state Transportation Department estimated it would cost $56 million to move Amtrak and Greyhound to a transportation hub at the Prime Osborn Convention Center. After a June 2000 public hearing on that plan, further study has added more kinds of transportation to the proposed center, said DOT project manager Craig Teal.

There also would be a multi-story Jacksonville Transportation Authority bus terminal, a rapid transit station for either light rail or express buses, a Skyway station parking garage, and a traffic management center for high-tech monitoring of traffic conditions on major roads. The plan also identifies places for a future office building, a hotel, and residences.

"We just feel this is going to be a tremendous economic engine running in this area because of the multimodal center," JTA spokesman Mike Miller said.

City Council President Elaine Brown said making the plan a reality boils down to "money, money and more money."

She said it's part of the long-range solution to traffic gridlock and could fit in with an expanded convention center.

"What would you do as a conventioneer in an area like that right now?" she said. "But to have entertainment, a pedestrian walkway, a town center ... It could be one of the hottest areas in Jacksonville."

Because of the changes since 2000, DOT will need to conduct another public hearing on the proposal after getting more of the engineering design completed. Teal said the public hearing will probably occur around April 2006.

"We've taken a couple of steps back," Teal said. "It's no longer just Amtrak and Greyhound."

First Coast News reporter Melissa Ross contributed to this report.

david.bauerleinjacksonville.com, (904) 359-4581

This story can be found on Jacksonville.com at http://www.jacksonvi..._18104281.shtml.

[Viper]

They need to stop dilly dallying around these projects and get them done.  Now is the perfect time to get this one going.  Of course Tallahassee would rather spend $127 million on a new Miami parking garage first.

[bobliocatt]

We could probably pay for most of this ourselves, by using the money we're wasting to build overpasses at intersections all over the Southside.  We could save a lot of money, by just constructing dual turns lanes, etc., at most of these spots.  With that said, I don't see the Federal government contributing much for this in the upcoming decade.

[Viper]

The sooner the better.   Construction prices are far worse in 2-3 years.   By then the Southside overpasses will have begun as well.  


Dual turn lanes or single flyover lanes instead of full blown overpasses would be good.

Money saved goes to this Transportation hub and maybe some into funding a new Matthews bridge as well.

[RiversideGator]

Regarding the Transportation Center, I think this is a good idea in theory, but in reality, the types of people who use the train and especially the bus services are not exactly upscale.  I dont know when the last time y'all visited the bus station was, but generally people who ride the bus are on their last economic legs and wont do anything to improve downtown.  Train travel is a little more upscale (I took the train to NYC last yr and enjoyed it).  I question the utility of including the bus service though - how many people actually come to town on a train and then get on a bus?  Maybe 10 a day at most?  I guess I am just concerned that this transportation center might get in the way of potential convention center business and this would not help anyone.  By the way, who designed that bomb shelter meets parking garage meets New Mexico strip mall?  Was it a color blind time traveler from the 1970s?  How about a design that relates in some way to the old train station??

[RiversideGator]

For the record, however, I do support bringing train service back to the Prime Orborne in conjunction with expanding the existing convention center.  I just think that this idea is a bridge too far.  I also can never support the construction of something so ugly in such a prominent location.

[BosTech]

"who designed that bomb shelter meets parking garage meets New Mexico strip mall"

Design is BEFORE they captured Saddam Husein.
But my question is ,does 127 milion price tag include people in picture?
Somehow they alway make it look hot on picture ,once its build its empty and soulless.

[bobliocatt]

I'm hoping the design is a left over from 10 years ago, when they first came up with this deaign.  I believe the most important thing about relocating the bus terminals, is to get those things off of the premium centralized sites, they now occupy.  The information given so far, still seems a bit sketchy.  How much and what type of retail will be included?  What's the time line?  How realistic is this?

[bobliocatt]

Well I just watched the video, which gives a little more insite to this project, which looks to be bounded by I-95, Bay, Johnson & Adams Streets.  The hotel site is along Bay, closest to I-95.  It definately could go back to the drawing board for a better facade.  Councilman Reggie Fullwood thinks it will take about 3 years to secure funding and get construction started.  Elaine Brown speaks of retail and entertainment with a town center concept, as being potentially the hottest spot around.  I wonder how much retail are we talking about and what streets will it be facing?  Are we talking about something like Cityplace in West Palm Beach?

[jjoshjl]

Riverside does have a point though. I don't think it will be supported by the right demographics. How is making a nice building going to imporve ridership on the skyway/buses/train. Until they start implimenting some sort of more expanded mass transportation like light rail that goes from the Airport to avenues. You need to have the destinations for you to have a hub, and right now, we dont have the right destinations to support wider ridership.

cheers
Josh