138 replies to this topic

[rusthebuss]

Service center to bring 250 jobs to Chesapeake


Here is some good news with jobs coming to the area.

[urbanvb]

Looks like the city council approved a condo project in S. Norfolk.

Quote

The first project, Portlock Square, includes about 30 units on three acres. It was backed by several South Norfolk leaders who viewed it as a catalyst to transform the area. It would include stores on the ground level and condos on the second and third floors. Coupled with the recently approved Mill Creek Village, advocates said, the condos will help make the Bainbridge Boulevard corridor a destination for young families.

story

I am not sure if this is the same development we were discussing in another thread or perhaps just another development for that area.

[urbanvb]

Are there more jobs in Greenbrier than in downtown Norfolk?

Quote

CHESAPEAKE — From suburban stalwarts such as Best Buy and Bed Bath & Beyond to Michael’s and Harris Teeter, Greenbrier Parkway is a retail mecca for the region’s shoppers.

Yet tucked within the area’s winding back roads rests millions of square feet of office and commercial space, including QVC and Mitsubishi Chemical.

While Norfolk has cast a long shadow across South Hampton Roads as the area’s cultural and social center, Greenbrier is now home to more jobs than a strictly defined downtown Norfolk.

Who would have ever thought ?  

[okinawatyphoon]

guynvb, on Jan 17 2006, 03:44 PM, said:

Are there more jobs in Greenbrier than in downtown Norfolk?
Who would have ever thought ?  

That is a poor comparison IMO. They probably took quite a few square miles of Greenbrier but only a couple blocks of DT and made that comparison.

[willy]

Quote

The area includes 53,000 jobs , more than half of the city’s total work force and about 2,000 more jobs than downtown Norfolk.

Quote

“You’re not comparing apples-to-apples,” Norfolk Mayor Paul Fraim said . He points to thousands of jobs that are not counted from Old Dominion University, Norfolk State University, and the Jones Institute at Eastern Virginia Medical School. All three schools would be within a three-mile radius of downtown Norfolk.

And how much do many of these jobs pay? It's mostly retail, which boils down to quantity versus quality. It's like saying Greenbrier Kia sells more cars than Phillips Mercedes.

[vdogg]

Yeah, the conclusions made by this article are suspect. They really should've delved a little bit more into the quality of these jobs in Chesapeake vs. the quality in Norfolk.

[hoobo]

Chesapeake's Econ Development Dept website keeps crashing on me.  Conspiracy?  I'll let you decided.  From the couple pdf's I was able to open, the "Greenbrier" area's boundary is open to debate.  However, from the job demographic pdf's I wouldn't say that the employment is mostly retail.  Downtown has its fair share of retail. What Downtown lacks is industrial businesses which are abundant in Greenbrier.  Comparing Greenbrier to Lynnhaven and Downtown to Pembroke would be more accurate comparisons.

[Padman]

I wouldn't be too surprised or too alarmed by this.  It reflects a 30+ year trend of job suburbanization that has occurred nationally.  Look at the Census Journey to Work data and you'll see it.  The Virginia Beach and Newport News Town Centers are just a new twist on this trend.  I believe and I hope that there will be a renewed emphasis on downtown Norfolk as a better quality workplace, but the travel time, cost and convenience factors will weigh heavily in how much office development we can expect there.  Parking is another factor.  It may help LRT to limit parking downtown, but not the development potential of downtown.

[rusthebuss]

vdogg, on Jan 17 2006, 06:29 AM, said:

Yeah, the conclusions made by this article are suspect. They really should've delved a little bit more into the quality of these jobs in Chesapeake vs. the quality in Norfolk.

This is an attempt to bring life to Chesapeake. This so to speak attack is because when you feel threaten by something you attack it out of defense.  I don't understand the need for the comparison. What was the whole point of it? What is the median income coming from DT and the Greenbrier section? Why not just go Norfolk jobs v. Chesapeake jobs?

[Padman]

rusthebuss, on Jan 17 2006, 10:43 AM, said:

This is an attempt to bring life to Chesapeake. This so to speak attack is because when you feel threaten by something you attack it out of defense.  I don't understand the need for the comparison. What was the whole point of it? What is the median income coming from DT and the Greenbrier section? Why not just go Norfolk jobs v. Chesapeake jobs?

Agreed. Maybe what we need is a way to bring some focus and character to all of that development in Greenbrier.  "Town Center" concepts are a good start.  Both Pembroke and Greenbrier have similar problems in this area, but Pembroke has a head start on meeting the problem.

The type of jobs is also a factor.  Are we counting the Sentara/EVMS medical empire in Downtown Norfolk?  Also there are some larger regional and even national offices downtown that you might not typically see in the suburbs.  I see a pattern where there is a compact core downtown in Norfolk, and several satellite or suburban downtowns outside.  Lynnhaven is also a huge job center.  There's no reason why we can't have more jobs by sheer numbers in any of these locations.

[urbanvb]

Padman, on Jan 17 2006, 11:16 AM, said:

Agreed. Maybe what we need is a way to bring some focus and character to all of that development in Greenbrier.  "Town Center" concepts are a good start.  Both Pembroke and Greenbrier have similar problems in this area, but Pembroke has a head start on meeting the problem.

Greenbrier has a very long ways to go to get any type of character resembling Pembroke. I find Greenbrier a smaller version of Lynnhaven Parkway - all suburban sprawl.

[tuffsim]

guynvb, on Jan 17 2006, 11:56 AM, said:

Greenbrier has a very long ways to go to get any type of character resembling Pembroke. I find Greenbrier a smaller version of Lynnhaven Parkway - all suburban sprawl.

From the article, emphasis added:

Chesapeake and Norfolk leaders stress the cities are not in competition with each other. In fact, new jobs in Norfolk often go to workers who live outside of the city limits. Chesapeake’s downtown, city leaders say, is downtown Norfolk.

[Padman]

One major development project involving mixed use designs and office towers, and a Town Center type of retail and eatery pavillion is all that you would need to bring some focus to the Greenbrier mess. The proximity to I-64 and I-464, a viable shopping mall, along with reasonable access to the Chesapeake suburbs and even North Carolina  make the Greenbrier area a pretty compelling location for some additional development.  I think it's just waiting to happen, but I don't mind being wrong on this as it's not my favorite place.

[vdogg]

Padman, on Jan 17 2006, 12:15 PM, said:

One major development project involving mixed use designs and office towers, and a Town Center type of retail and eatery pavillion is all that you would need to bring some focus to the Greenbrier mess. The proximity to I-64 and I-464, a viable shopping mall, along with reasonable access to the Chesapeake suburbs and even North Carolina  make the Greenbrier area a pretty compelling location for some additional development.  I think it's just waiting to happen, but I don't mind being wrong on this as it's not my favorite place.

It seems though that Chesapeake is actually trying to focus their urbanization efforts on the South Norfolk corridor. Greenbrier will likely remain as is. We have to keep in mind that most of that cities residents prefer that very suburban character. I think the most we'll see in that corridor is maybe some denser condo development that is focused around retail, but not a town center in the truest sense of the word.

[Padman]

vdogg, on Jan 17 2006, 12:26 PM, said:

It seems though that Chesapeake is actually trying to focus their urbanization efforts on the South Norfolk corridor. Greenbrier will likely remain as is. We have to keep in mind that most of that cities residents prefer that very suburban character. I think the most we'll see in that corridor is maybe some denser condo development that is focused around retail, but not a town center in the truest sense of the word.

That South Norfolk corridor sure seems like a long shot to me, but could offer some interesting views from a high rise.  It just seems too industrial in a rust-beltish sort of way to be attractive for high-end residential use.  Environmental degragation has to be a pretty big problem there also.   But anything is possible, and that land must be pretty cheap.

[rusthebuss]

Padman, on Jan 17 2006, 02:17 PM, said:

That South Norfolk corridor sure seems like a long shot to me, but could offer some interesting views from a high rise.  It just seems too industrial in a rust-beltish sort of way to be attractive for high-end residential use.  Environmental degragation has to be a pretty big problem there also.   But anything is possible, and that land must be pretty cheap.

Alot of those houses are considered historic too in South Norfolk so I don't know that they have too much room for alot of development.

[urbanlife]

rusthebuss, on Jan 17 2006, 11:39 AM, said:

Alot of those houses are considered historic too in South Norfolk so I don't know that they have too much room for alot of development.

Actually that is a plus for that area.  There is currently several empty lots that can be developed as well as hundreds of homes that can be renovated.

South Norfolk was once a great community and will become a great community again.  It is in a prime location in the metro.  It has great interstate access.  It has a history.  It has affordable land and houses, and when people that can not afford to buy in the other cities start looking for a fixer upper building, they will look here.  This development that will happen on the water, if done right could be the spark that area needs.

So expect to see South Norfolk moving back in the radar of things in the next twenty years.


**If you go to Google Earth and look up Chesapeake, the center of Chesapeake is just off of Poindexter and on D St. in the heart of South Norfolk.  It is Chesapeake's downtown.  

Looking at the borders, I would like to see Norfolk jump on board with this and start renovating their part along the river, that area could be such a great area and lifestyle if people their showed any care in it.

Edited by urbanlife, 17 January 2006 - 09:26 PM.

[Padman]

You guys are talking about the Eastern branch.  Yes, there's great potential there.  I was referring to the Southern Branch---3 headed toadfish and that sort of thing.

[urbanlife]

yeah Southern Branch needs some serious clean up.  Eastern Branch is well worth saving though.

[rusthebuss]

NOVA plant to close by the end of the year with 150 jobs lost!