113 replies to this topic

[AuLukey]

Yea, Richmond is probably last on the list of "rivals" as I can't think of anything that Jax and Richmond have in common outside of their position on the eastern side of the Mississippi.

I now do have to change my vote to Tampa and/or Orlando just after having spent some time down there and not many people down there even knew anything about Charlotte but did talk about Tampa and Orlando quite a bit.  I'm going down there again June 1st for a little longer than last time, but I imagine this will stay the same.  I think Charlotte's true rival is Raleigh; I mean, they are competing for the same state funds and aren't all that far apart in location or size (metro, not city limits.)  Jacksonville has a lot less in common with Charlotte than I had previously thought.  I guess I was still looking at Jax through the close-minded eyes of a nine year old (how old I was when I moved away from there.)

[Charlotteman]

I still think Tampa is Jacksonville's true rival.  Charlotte is too far away to be a rival.

[traintrain]

Based on the amount of underhanded deals and JTA's BRT plan, I had to answer: "Other"
As far as I can determine, our biggest rival is US! Neanderthal thinking at City Hall AND JTA!! Both placees seem to want us to stay Cowford. BRT is just a new way to BUILD ROADS TODAY or put another way, it's just BAD RAPID TRANSIT!

traintrain

[VistaLakes01]

RALBOI, on Aug 7 2006, 02:41 PM, said:

Bravo! Mr. derrickskugler you've gone from false to misleading a step up for you, but if you want to compare a CSA to a MSA then yes your right as far population but hardly fair, as far as tall buildings go Charlotte folks have aready explained that to you, basicaly the number of tall buildings don't make the city Washington D.C. prove's this, and if you go their then JAX would be considered a 3rd tier also because that skyline is nothing to sing about and another thing sense you have managed to pull this forum off topic  I have great respect for Charlotte, because yes they have set the bar for North Carolina and a high standard one at that, but it's also one that the Triangle will take even Higher and also let me state my position clearly about this as a city Charlotte has no equal in North or South Carolina, but when you Factor in the Metro area as ahole then things are different, Triangle easily compare's when all things considered like college's,Medical school's ,law school's ,Highest workforce with degree's,highest per capita income, always in the top 5 for best place to live or for business and even for singles looking to get married, STATE CAPITAL,RTP first major league ChampionShip for both Carolina's, man the list goes on and final comment's on this thing         and scope. Charlotte will always be the biggest city the Carolina's but the Triangle will one day be the biggest Metro Area in the future to come in North Carolina and for Jacksonville we have already blown pass you guys, where growing at a much faster rate and we have too many assets too play second fiddle to any metro in the South and another thing, Charlotte has blown you guys away also, and you are not their Rival,because your metro Area is to small now , your being outpaced by every other metro in the south, like I said .I can't wait for the new Census report ,so some people can just shut up

I know this is an old post/subject but I have been reading great things about Raleigh and seeing it ranked with the nations "hippest" cities like Austin, TX and always in the top 10 in best places to live, start a business, etc.  I was recently in Charlotte and found it kind of like Atlanta's stepchild.  People say...this is "our Buckhead" or this is "our Peachtree St."  A city should be made famous by it's own attractions and not trying to be "a wannabee Atlanta"....I have yet to hear anyone make the comment "I wish my city were like Charlotte" except maybe some people from small cities near there.

[derrickskugler]

Yeah, thanks for bringing that back up.  I appreciate seeing that guy flame me again.  :-)  Oh well, what should I have expected?  I brought reality into his world and he didn't like it much.  

Anywho, remember that Jacksonville often gets placed on those lists as well.  Raleigh isn't a bad place to live, but we are on the Jacksonville board here.  Let's show the hometown some love!

[RALBOI]

derrickskugler, on Jun 18 2007, 10:37 PM, said:

Yeah, thanks for bringing that back up.  I appreciate seeing that guy flame me again.  :-)  Oh well, what should I have expected?  I brought reality into his world and he didn't like it much.  

Anywho, remember that Jacksonville often gets placed on those lists as well.  Raleigh isn't a bad place to live, but we are on the Jacksonville board here.  Let's show the hometown some love!

Hey 'derrickskugler'.How do you want it, medium,rare or WELLDONE! Anyway just JOKING with you. But SERIOUSLY the only REALITY you bought into my world is that you have your opinion and I have mine, I don't have any hard feeling it's IT'S ALLGOOD! anyway I was in Jax about a month ago and I had a GREAT TIME. Jacksonville is a nice city with a bright future CHEERS!!!  

Edited by RALBOI, 30 June 2007 - 01:19 PM.

[Spartan]

I don't think that what people think about Charlotte is relevant to this thread. How does that relate to Jacksonville? Are people saying "wow I wish my city were more like Jacksonville?"

traintrain, on Jun 13 2007, 08:24 PM, said:

Based on the amount of underhanded deals and JTA's BRT plan, I had to answer: "Other"
As far as I can determine, our biggest rival is US! Neanderthal thinking at City Hall AND JTA!! Both placees seem to want us to stay Cowford. BRT is just a new way to BUILD ROADS TODAY or put another way, it's just BAD RAPID TRANSIT!

I agree its not ideal, and that LRT is a better option all around, but BRT can be an effective solution. There are cities out there that have used BRT and it works.

[asonj23]

BRT has its benefits.  In Jax, the existing rail lines should be used to service the areas it passes through.  BRT then makes sence in the corridors that aren't currently served by rail such as a line from DT to the beaches via the Arlington Expsy and Atlantic Blvd.

[citykidd]

prahaboheme, on Jan 27 2006, 05:32 PM, said:

Honestly, does JAX really have a natural rival?  It doesn't seem so.

I gotta agree, Jacksonville isn't like any other city except for its massive size (see Houston, TX).

[pinetree221]

I agree with those who say that Jacksonville does not have a real rival.   Orlando is the closest big metro area, but Orlando's economy is completely different.  Jacksonville is simply too isolated.  Jacksonville is the center of it's own little universe, sort of like Oklahama City or Denver.  Well, perhaps it's not as isolated as Denver.

[ProjectMaximus]

asonj23, on Mar 17 2008, 08:11 AM, said:

BRT has its benefits. In Jax, the existing rail lines should be used to service the areas it passes through. BRT then makes sence in the corridors that aren't currently served by rail such as a line from DT to the beaches via the Arlington Expsy and Atlantic Blvd.

Man, we were once the railroad capital of the south. (Not capitol, right? I forgot which one is which, but I'm sticking with 'a' cause it looks right in this context...and it's late) There are four companies with working rail lines in Jax. CSX is HQ'd there. It's embarassing that we have no commuter rail of any sort. You, sir, are absolutely correct. Utilize the existing rail...and implement "BRT" (or at least what the JTA calls BRT) to service the rail-less corridors. Let's just take care of this now. It's ridiculous...if we start now, we'll have a faux-comprehensive commuter rail system in 10-15 years. If we wait to get started? Even longer. If we go the BRT route? Maybe never! Augh!

aussie luke, on Aug 19 2006, 11:08 AM, said:

I take everything I have said about Charlotte having in common with Jacksonville in this thread back. I just finished a three day vacation seeing some friends in St Augustine and spent a little time in Jacksonville. I cannot believe how much growth there is. Not to the skyline, but to the city. It feels like a city. The skyline may not be tall, but it is more spread out by leaps and bounds. Plus, on the ground level, if you don't look up, you don't realize you've left the CBD when leaving the city. Charlotte feels a lot more suburban with huge spans of nothingness in between. I've lived in Charlotte and its suburbs as well having lived in Jacksonville and its suburbs over the last couple decades. I envisioned Charlotte of being such a larger city (metro-wise) because I have day by day seen the growth happening here. But since my last trip to Jax (in March) so much has changed. Bridges are going up in all directions; the interchange for 9A and 95 is one of the most gorgeous interchanges I've ever seen. While that isn't a measure of a city's size or power, it speaks well of the sense of pride Jax puts into its architecture. The bridges lit blue at night put a beautiful touch to the now bisected string of towers. I wish I had had my trusty camera on my side. I wish even harder that i didn't have to miss the Jaguars play the Panthers later today.

I know none of this has to do with a rivalry, but I figured I'd take back a lot of what I've said the two cities have in common. I can't let my dog swim in the ocean and chase birds at the beach in Charlotte.

I appreciate your kind words about Jax. For the last six years now I've been in college and grad school outside of my hometown of Jacksonville, and in a way I've been quite detached and apathetic about all the development there. But over the past year, with the traveling and growing I've done (epiphanies included) I've started to really take pride in my Jacksonville roots. And while the mess with downtown development (particularly given the economic downturn over the last 2 years) and mass transit has driven me nuts, based on my memories I think for what it is, Jacksonville is an amazing city in which to grow up, and to a lesser extent, to live in. The place has so much to offer from a physical standpoint, that once the population fills out in the next decade (particularly with the right demographic that has been brought in by all the new major corporations) and that population demands an improved transit system and urban core, man...it will be a very desirable place to live. But once more, I repeat, the city is already great for what it is...an amalgamation of american suburbia, but each with their own flavors...from OP to the Beaches and everywhere in between. If I weren't such a city guy (naturally drawn to the Manhattan and Chicago's Loop) then Jax would be perfect as is.

As for this thread's original question...after 5 seconds of skimming the choices and an additional 5 seconds of deliberation, I went with Tampa. It was simple...gut instinct from a Jacksonville native. Growing up I think I would always have considered Tampa to be the most similar to Jax. A little bit larger, but very similar. I could also very easily accept the argument that we have no rival...cause we really are quite unique in potential and geographical layout. But that feels too much like a cop out.

Edited by ProjectMaximus, 07 July 2008 - 02:56 AM.

[USF_Rockstar]

Tampa

Both are industrial.

Both are on the water, but neither are on the ocean/gulf.

Both have tons of sprawl.

Both have the military (Jax Navy, Tampa Army).

Jax has I-95 for Northeasterners going to Miami, Tampa has I-75 for Midwesterners going to Miami.

Jaguars v. Bucs

etc.



Orlando doesn't have much in common with Jax other than proximity. Miami has even less in common with Jax.

[VistaLakes01]

USF_Rockstar, on Jul 7 2008, 10:58 AM, said:

Tampa

Both are industrial.

Both are on the water, but neither are on the ocean/gulf.

Both have tons of sprawl.

Both have the military (Jax Navy, Tampa Army).

Jax has I-95 for Northeasterners going to Miami, Tampa has I-75 for Midwesterners going to Miami.

Jaguars v. Bucs

etc.



Orlando doesn't have much in common with Jax other than proximity. Miami has even less in common with Jax.

After reading a lot in the Birmingham thread, while I wouldn't consider Birmingham a rival city with Jacksonville, I would consider it a similar city, until Jacksonville considerably outgrows Birmingham in population since Birmingham is barely growing, they both seem to be at the same stage of development.  Excited about getting a Nordstrom, starting to get some of the restaurants that have been in the larger markets for years, etc.  I would say Jacksonville is pretty isolated and is in a region of its own.  A major difference between the other major metro areas in Florida is that the other major metros are surrounded by mid sized cities, such in Tampa/Orlando, they have the cities in Polk county, Lake county, Volusia county, Brevard County, Sarasota County, Pasco county, Hernando County, Marion County.  Jacksonville, if you look at a map is mainly surrounded by small towns except for St. Augustine to the south.  So Tampa, Orlando, and Miami are hubs for surrounding cities with large populations which make them much more active than Jacksonville. It's strange that Palm Coast is included (according to the census) is in the Orlando CSA.  It seems by location it would be more in the Jacksonville metro area, but apparently Jacksonville just isn't much of a draw for people living in the surrounding area.  It's strange driving in to Jacksonville from the south on I-95 and seeing the Jacksonville City Limits sign and still driving through miles of woods.  Also Jacksonville doesn't have the growth in all directions like Orlando does, pretty equal growth north, south, east, west.  Jacksonville's growth seems mainly on the strip of land between the St. John's River and the ocean to the east. The northside isn't really growing, and neither is the west side. The only other area growing is the Orange Park, Middleburg area, but it seems very average and the zoning is terrible. I wouldn't consider Tampa a rival either, except for the industrialness. Tampa has very active neighborhoods like Hyde Park, SoHo, Channelside, Ybor City, Harbour Island, Palma Ceia, Bayshore Blvd, etc.  While Jacksonville boasts about its historic neighborhoods, they just don't have a lot of foot traffic, shops, restaurants, and nightclubs.  I'm sure Jacksonville will change once it gets to the 2,000,000 mark, that seems to make a huge difference in metro areas at that point. We are forgetting how small Jacksonville is population-wise in comparison to most other rival cities on the list.  That's why I choose Birmingham, they are similar in size and amenities except for the ocean, but have you been to the beach in Jax? Not the most beautiful oceanfront scenery compared to South Florida or the Gulf coast.

[Spartan]

Don't judge growth on population alone. The Jacksonville is essentially Duval County, so its hard to make a population comparison on anything except the metro area.

metrowester, you have a great point about Charlotte vs Jacksonville. After having lived in Charlotte for a while now, and having spend a lot of my youth in Jacksonville, Jax has a much older urban core, and so it retains that "city" feeling much more than Charlotte does. Districts evolve over time. Charlotte is just starting to see distinct districts form, and I expect that the locals will tell you of the same thing in Jax. I would be interested to hear what districts the locals see evolving today.