47 replies to this topic

[Hybrid0NE]

Just entertain the thought for a moment, cause everyone knows there is no way this State will let it's breadwinner stand-alone but it would be a great way to keep issues concerning Metro Atlanta off the backburner. I'd split the State in half around the Fall Line and either rename the northern half "Piedmont", "New Georgia", etc. or the southern portion "Lower Georgia". Atlanta would retain it's capital status while Savannah would be the best choice for the South (regardless of it's proximity to the border) or a new central city could be built for the capital. If Statehood is too much for some of you to bear, then maybe the Atlanta region could become a special district like Washington, D.C. (Atlanta, D.G.) that way we wouldn't have to create another state and the city could become emancipated.

[ironchapman]

No, I don't think it should. Atlanta does provide quite a bit of Georgia's economy, population, and entertainment, but the state isn't that divided.

It is an extremely important part, easily without question the state's main economic powerhouse, but the state as a whole isn't that bad or divided.

However, ifi the state ever was divided, I think it would be best of the Northern half was "North Georgia" and the Southern half was "South Georgia"

Edited by ironchapman, 25 December 2005 - 09:56 PM.

[Newnan]

You have quite an imagination to think about Georgia being cut in half. I don't think GA should be split up  or giving Atlanta its own district. I mean, Illinois and Chicago are doing just fine.

[Hybrid0NE]

Newnan, on Dec 26 2005, 06:31 PM, said:

You have quite an imagination to think about Georgia being cut in half.

Not really, I kinda borrowed the idea from the South Carolina forum, there's a thread about "Upstate Seccession," but don't tell anyone. Wouldn't want my roots to exposed.

Whose the mystery person that voted "Yes"?

[Relient J]

I think it would be a great loss for both parts of the state if the two were to break up.  Obviously that's a choice that should be left up to the people of Georgia, but I for one would be sad to see it.

[Spartan]

Newnan, on Dec 26 2005, 06:31 PM, said:

You have quite an imagination to think about Georgia being cut in half. I don't think GA should be split up  or giving Atlanta its own district. I mean, Illinois and Chicago are doing just fine.

Not really. Lower Illinois's economy is stagnant at best. Chicago dominates that state in almost every way.

[ironchapman]

Spartan, on Dec 30 2005, 03:20 PM, said:

Not really. Lower Illinois's economy is stagnant at best. Chicago dominates that state in almost every way.

Another difference between GA and Illinois is that many of our lesser cities still contribute to Georgia's economy. Also, many of Georgia's smaller cities still have some significance to the state. Savannah is an important port and tourist destination, which contirbutes gretly to the local and state economy; Athens is a sizeable college town that has a great draw to it with UGA, Augusta has the masters; and Columbus is rapidly becoming GA's second city. In Illinois, almost everything outside of U of Illinois' main campus and the state capital is in Chicago.

I have had a theory that if Atlanta had Savannah's port, it would befar and away the most dominant area of the state (on the Illinois-Chicago level, at least the smaller cities have some sya in the state here).

[Hybrid0NE]

If you're in the Atlanta area, last week's [creative loafing] cover story was "Secession!" I wonder if the writers visit this messageboard?...

[Spartan]

Its possible! The UrbanPlanet effect has shown its head many times before...

[aboutmetro]

North and South GA might not be the way to go, but I agree that it's time our system of government looks at the reality of super-cities.  Some issues - water, air, traffic - are borderless.  Putting in a constitutional basis for creating multi-county governance for super-cities makes sense. Not just for Atlanta, but for all multi-jurisdictional markets. These include Georgia's tertiary cities - Augusta, Columbus, Macon, Savannah.

[andremurra]

Well with the new economy developing in Coastal Georgia, I see the state split into Dual Economies in the next 20 years: Atlanta & Coastal Georgia. Should Georgia remain one state, Atlanta can have better access to the Seaports. Also, Augusta is already split between two states. Drawing a line between north and south Goergia will split Augusta into three. I think Creative Loafing as well as many Atlantans think that the impact of Atlanta far exceeds what it does in real life. No one in the rest of the state denies that Atlanta's impact is huge, but many times I feel that Atlantans have an over-exaggerated point of view concerning its importance to the state. There are other urban areas in Georgia as well as assets that make Georgia great.

[Lady Celeste]

I think when people see the term "Atlanta" they take it to mean the actual city limits. I was under the impression that "Atlanta" meant the entire CSA of Atlanta....which is also in two states like the CSA of Augusta and Columbus. Also, a north/south split would also take along with it the fast growing north Georgia mountains.

Be it right or wrong but when one considers that more than half of the population of Georgia lives in "Atlanta," Atlanta's importance can not be denied. Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport has always been a selling point to the business community. This is why Atlanta is home to several national and international corporations. The telecomm industry (all clustered in "Atlanta" has brought attention to Georgia. From Coca~Cola, Delta and Home Depot to CNN, TBS to the Weather, Atlanta incons have shown Atlanta and Georgia to be progressive places. Financially, Atlanta (the CSA) is the economic engine of the state. Let's consider this...what if all the taxes collected in the CSA of Atlanta (income, sales, ad valorem) stayed in this special tax district. How would this affect the state?

Everything we say here is purely speculative but I would be very curious for some economist to run real numbers. Georgia, without Greater Atlanta. Greater Atlanta, without Georgia. Which scenario would be most tellling? If you make this a North Georgia/South Georgia issue then the new North Georgia would have almost all of the old Georgia's premier schools....UGA, Tech, Emory, The Medical College of Georgia, Mercer, GSU, The AUC and on and on.

Do I want the state to split? No. Do I feel that the state could and should pay more attention to "Atlanta" than it does? Most definitely. The term "New South" was coined by Henry Grady in Atlanta. Atlanta and it's collection of suburbs has carried Georgia into national prominence...sometimes kicking and screaming. I remember many years ago my husband and I were having a dinner party with many of his friends who had moved to the area. Amazingly, I was the only southerner in the crowd...well one wife was from North Carolina. As we are sipping, we begin having a converstation about their experiences in Atlanta and how they found their new home. Many had ventured outside of greater Atlanta to explore their new state. After much converstation about living here, I half-heartedly asked, "I wonder what Georgia would be without Atlanta?" My husband quickly responded "Mississippi!" Others chimed in with "yeah, Mississipi...that's what I would say." So on and so forth.

The words were poignant and I had to think about that assessment. No knock to Mississippi. I'm sure it is a lovely place but it's not the most progressive of places. Is this what outsiders think of Georgia sans greater Atlanta? Perhaps this why some writers at Creative Loafing and some greater Atlantans think North Georgia should break away.

I know I would never fully support such a decision.

[krazeeboi]

I think this data may be relevant to the discussion here.



Note: These statistics rely on 2005 data, and for multi-state metros, only the in-state portion of the metros were included.

[Lady Celeste]

Thank you Krazeeman...you are too smart and relevant to be called anything else   ...that chart clearly show's greater Atlanta's importance to the state.

[krazeeboi]

Thanks Celeste.

Those figures are just mind-boggling.

[Spartan]

Lady Celeste, on Nov 9 2007, 10:04 PM, said:

I think when people see the term "Atlanta" they take it to mean the actual city limits. I was under the impression that "Atlanta" meant the entire CSA of Atlanta....which is also in two states like the CSA of Augusta and Columbus. Also, a north/south split would also take along with it the fast growing north Georgia mountains.

Be it right or wrong but when one considers that more than half of the population of Georgia lives in "Atlanta," Atlanta's importance can not be denied. Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport has always been a selling point to the business community. This is why Atlanta is home to several national and international corporations. The telecomm industry (all clustered in "Atlanta" has brought attention to Georgia. From Coca~Cola, Delta and Home Depot to CNN, TBS to the Weather, Atlanta incons have shown Atlanta and Georgia to be progressive places. Financially, Atlanta (the CSA) is the economic engine of the state. Let's consider this...what if all the taxes collected in the CSA of Atlanta (income, sales, ad valorem) stayed in this special tax district. How would this affect the state?

Everything we say here is purely speculative but I would be very curious for some economist to run real numbers. Georgia, without Greater Atlanta. Greater Atlanta, without Georgia. Which scenario would be most tellling? If you make this a North Georgia/South Georgia issue then the new North Georgia would have almost all of the old Georgia's premier schools....UGA, Tech, Emory, The Medical College of Georgia, Mercer, GSU, The AUC and on and on.

Do I want the state to split? No. Do I feel that the state could and should pay more attention to "Atlanta" than it does? Most definitely. The term "New South" was coined by Henry Grady in Atlanta. Atlanta and it's collection of suburbs has carried Georgia into national prominence...sometimes kicking and screaming. I remember many years ago my husband and I were having a dinner party with many of his friends who had moved to the area. Amazingly, I was the only southerner in the crowd...well one wife was from North Carolina. As we are sipping, we begin having a converstation about their experiences in Atlanta and how they found their new home. Many had ventured outside of greater Atlanta to explore their new state. After much converstation about living here, I half-heartedly asked, "I wonder what Georgia would be without Atlanta?" My husband quickly responded "Mississippi!" Others chimed in with "yeah, Mississipi...that's what I would say." So on and so forth.

The words were poignant and I had to think about that assessment. No knock to Mississippi. I'm sure it is a lovely place but it's not the most progressive of places. Is this what outsiders think of Georgia sans greater Atlanta? Perhaps this why some writers at Creative Loafing and some greater Atlantans think North Georgia should break away.

I know I would never fully support such a decision.

I would argue that Georgia, without Atlanta, would be much more like South Carolina. There would be about 4 million people, a collection of mid-sized metros that would arguable be in better shape than they are today, your historic port city.... I could go on. But its also hard to argue what would NOT have happened without Atlanta because the entire South if not the nation would have grown differently.

But I have to wonder what the rest of the state thinks about Atlanta? There is a tendency among Atlantans to ignore the rest of the state, and I think its a bit self-righteous to think Atlanta doesn't already get more than its share. I would argue that Atlanta has not been the best leader for the state in terms of setting an example of the right way to do things, especially in terms of urban development.

[krazeeboi]

Here's a relevant article from Creative Loafing.

As far as Atlanta getting more than its fair share, I don't think that's always the case, especially when you consider transportation issues in metro Atlanta. Here's an editorial in the AJC that goes into detail.

[Lady Celeste]

Spartan, on Nov 10 2007, 10:36 AM, said:

But I have to wonder what the rest of the state thinks about Atlanta? There is a tendency among Atlantans to ignore the rest of the state, and I think its a bit self-righteous to think Atlanta doesn't already get more than its share. I would argue that Atlanta has not been the best leader for the state in terms of setting an example of the right way to do things, especially in terms of urban development.

I don't have to wonder what many of the south state lawmakers think of Atlanta. Living in close proximity to the capital city, one can get quite an ear full to the disdain that is felt by many lawmakers from more rural confines. Surely these lawmakers represent the sentiments shared by a majority of the constituents...or they would not be in office.

As far as many in Atlanta being self-righteous...that in itself is to strong of a word and not befitting...is incorrect and definitely off base. In fact, I have read from south Georgians that view Atlanta as the lake of Hell. From of deviants and not worthy of salvation. For those Georgians who can remember the elections of 92' or 94' when the lottery was up for vote. It seems to me that some south state Georgians view Atlanta as the hotel of heathens....so I think the self-righteous attitude analogy is reversed.

Back to the numbers though, one only has to look at the numbers to see that Atlanta does not recieve 67% of total tax collected in the state of Georgia. Like I have said earlier, I don't feel that Georgia should split but I would not be in objection to a special tax district formed for the CSA of Georgia....minus the county in Alabama that is a part of the CSA. This way greater Atlantans would not have to "beg" for help with transit and south Georgia politicians will not have to grumble just because a governor has decided to establish a regional transportation authority.

The Brain Train and the Lovejoy line could be established with the 70%+ tax revenue that is collected in the greater Atlanta area. Schools in the Greater Atlanta Special Tax Area (GASTA) could be supported strictly by tax dollars collected in those counties and then by those collected from GASTA. Maybe even Grady could be supported by a mere .05 sales tax from GASTA. This way a politician from Waycross would not have to say "let them eat cake" to those less fortunate.

There will only be one governor to represent the whole state. When a car factory locates to an area outside of GASTA, the state as a whole will celebrate. GASTA would not compete with the state and vice versa. If there is something that is statewide affecting...like increasing capacity of the ports at Savannah and Brunswick then every jurisdiction could pitch in.

To me, Atlanta and it's suburbs have prospered because of it's leadership. Have they done all things perfect? No. I would wager my next five commission checks to anyone who finds me one city in this state that has done most things in terms of urban planning in the short time that Atlanta has achieved what it has become. This would be post WWII...when the auto became king. I would rather take chances and err than to never go after something. Sure the balkanization of greater Atlanta is not optimum but is sure beats the inaction of some of the politicians that represent other lesser municipalities throughout the state.

Where are the William B Hartsfields, Ivan Allens, Manuel Maloofs, Liane Levetans, Sam Massells, Wayne Shaklefords, Maynard Jacksons, Henry Gradys, Sam Olens', Shirely Franklins....ect., of south Georgia. The state surely did not encourage the growth that is Atlanta. Many of the railroad lines followed trade routes...which themselves followed trade routes of the indigeous Americans. Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport was birthed from a small airfield by Hartsfield and expanded by Jackson. Noone forces corporations to locate to metro Atlanta. From what I have seen in the decades that I can remember, Atlanta did this in spite of the state not because of the state's help. Atlantans (meaning greater Atlantans) had vision and from that vision mistakes were made but you must respect the American zest and zeal that was shown. To want to be something greater....a beckon of progress.  

Let us all call on our local polititcians to support the formation of GASTA within the state of Georgia. This will solve the issue of other Georgians from assuming that we Greater Atlantans have some "self-righteous" predisposition to self superiority...be it imagined or actual.

[Spartan]

I said what I did because I know the rest of the state does not care for Atlanta. They already feel that Atlanta gets too much money and attention, etc. I also state this with little knowledge of Georgia politics.

Atlanta is in a tough spot because it is a primate city, and it dominates the Georgia economy, but there is still that other half of Georgia to think about. These people shouldn't be ignored just because Atlanta is so much larger. I think that as the leader in the state, its up to Atlanta and its surrounds to work with the other representatives in the other parts of the state to achieve solutions to the problems. Secession is not the answer. Thats just cutting of your nose to spite your face.

[cocateho]

well, pardon my bluntness, but anyone who actually supports the idea is a crackhead (not literally for those who might take it that way, but you get my point). first off, yes there is a big rift in more than a few areas between atlanta and the rest of georgia, financially and psycologically. i dont think that the reast of georgia NEEDS atlants any more than atlanta needs the rest of georgia. however, that doesnt mean that diversity can't or shouldn't exist in georgia. think about new york. New York city is to the state of new york what atlanta is to georgia, a behemoth of a city, and it does overshadow the other new york cities, although maybe not buffalo as much. but honestly, how long did it take you to find out albany was the real capitol of new york? when people think new york, they think the city. same with illinois and chicago and probably to a lesser extent states like arizona with pheonix or utah and salt lake city . all are states with one city that by far outranks any other city in the state, and we have no more reason to have a secession than they do. there has always been some tension between urban dwellers and the more rural areas and between massive urban areas and smaller ones, especially with certain conflicts of interest, but just because we disagree or dont always get along, doesnt mean we should split, its just natural to have different veiws when you have different lifestyles.