name='ppassafi' post='567701' date='Sep 26 2006, 03:51 PM'
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Lexington is the best example of a "new south" city in KY. It is growing fast, has a major research university, and is diversifying its economy. It also is famous for horses, and girls in southern dresses and greek life, etc. Lexington could easily be a twin of Columbia, SC, or Jackson, MS, etc.
Then you have Louisville, which was a mid nineteenth and early twentieth century metropolis. In fact New Albany, IN, a current suburb of Louisville, was the largest city in Indiana until 1850! At a time, Louisville was the nation's leading producer of rubber and tires, and was highly regarded for shipbuilding, distilling, textiles, etc. The only major city in KY, Louisville cannot be clasified as south nor midwest. It has certain southern elements but many people here do not have southern accents, do not like grits, and do NOT associate with the south or the rest of KY for that matter. And I am talking about lifelong Louisvillians who grew up in the actual city which is really bouded by the Olmstead Park System (Shawnee in the west end, Iroquois on the south end, and Cherokee on the east end). Many of the southern elements in the city are brought here by people from down state who move here. At the same time, many of the Midwestern elements are brought by transplants from places like Chicago and Cleveland who are beginning to flock here as the city slowly begins its "new south" boom.
The Louisville of today has recently hit a "new south" boom with a knowledge based economy and is becoming a major distribution and biomedical/informatics center. Condos are sprouting everywhere, downtown is growing fast, and you can feel the momentum in the city. However, if you take a stroll along the Ohio River to Shippingport, a major 1800's warehouseing district, you can almost hear the steamboats blowing as if you were in another time. Or you can travel east to Butchertown and hear the hogs squealing in the meat packing district and the stench of blood in Beargrass Creek. It is a colorful city full of a history of massive influxes of German and Irish immigrants with a distinct neighborhood known as Germantown that still has a tavern on almost every corner. Seidenfaden's is my favorite. You can feel the Midwest grit and industrial grime amidst the new south boom, the infill condos, and the coastal transplants. But you can also see the southern charm of the city with bourbon, Churchill Downs, and some friendly neighbors with a southern accent who will offer to cut your grass while you are on vacation. It is a melting pot of culture, and thats why I love the city.
As I stated earlier St. Louis nor Cincinnati are the definiton of Midwestern cities as they are too often considered to have a strong Southern inflence (St. Louis got it's Southern vibe from the black Migration to the North). Cincinnati as called by residence of upper Ohio Cincinatucky is obviously more mix of Southern and Midwestern.
Louisville was (back in the 19th century) actually defined as the manufacturing Captial of the South and the Gateway city to the South. Due to Louisville's location on the Ohio, which helped it to attract to Industry to the area just like other Southern River cities suchas Memphis and New Orleans and even non river cities like Birmingham. Louisville's title as the manufacturing Capital of the South also came into play when the L&N (Louisville and Nashville) (there was no L&C; Louisville and Chicago) was constructed that connected Louisville to Nashville and further South to Atlanta.
Louisville also had one of the largest slave owning populations (there were no slaves in the North except for the southern edge of Missouri) in the country (even though it was just across the river from a free state) which was just a reflection of it's state which had the 3rd largest slave population after (Virginia and Georgia). During the Civil War Louisville was constently under question by the North for aiding the Confederacy, and was by no means trusted by the North. To this day a Confederate monument stands in the City of Louisville.
Now honestly, I do see why you’d think it has a Midwestern under-culture, but it is a major city. The same argument, I assure you, can be made of New Orleans, Atlanta, Charleston. Major cities have major immigration, and people from all over the country--and the world--make their homes there. Sad as it is, it has shown its effects on the cities, but I assure you, at Louisville’s core, is the South. It has even been said that during the darkest days of the war, Louisville had more “Johnny Rebs” and “Southern Belles” than the entire state of Mississippi. As an historian, I might be inclined to believe that. Having mentioned Southern Belles, you’d be well advised to note Sallie Ward was a Louisvillian. Her portrait is often named “The Southern Belle.” That is because she was THE Southern Belle in the ante-bellum days. More Scarlett O’Hara than Scarlett herself! Literally, she was considered THE belle of the South! None of that is even mentioning that, as someone else noted, Louisville is a river city, giving it all the more reason to intermingle cultures. Nonetheless, to the trained ear, one can hear the traces of Southern accents in downtown Louisville, and thick as molasses accents among some of the older residence. Step outside the city limits--you can no longer judge the South by its cities. Anyone who lives in a Southern city will note the changes over the years. They’ve become melting pots, good or bad! Oh, and what is Louisville’s nickname? You don’t know? Let me tell you, “Gateway to the South!” That’s a take on its old days as a river port, and its being a Southern city, noted for two great Southern pastimes, horseracing and bourbon!
The Ohio river is a true divider of North and South. Just imagine how it held in cultures before the days of advanced transportation!
Also unlike Midwestern cities Louisville does not have a sigifigant population of Eastern and Southern Europeans (from places like Poland and Hungary) that came during a European Migration period (WWII). Even small Midwestern cities like South Bend and Toledo received a substantial number of immigrants from those areas of the world.
Archtiecturally Louisville's first suburb Old Louisville with it's wrought iron, huge fountains, huge Magnolias looming over the streets and Victorian style architecture that are found only in the most prominent Southern cities of the 19th century like Charleston, New Orleans, Savanah, and even Richmond, NOWHERE in the Midwest. Also Louisville like New Orleans urban areas (at least in the West or older parts of town) are lined with Shotgun houses destintively Southern, found mostly in cities like New Orleans.
Now from this I'm not saying that Louisville is completely Southern, as I said earlier it's large German population is a Northern characteristic. At the same time I've heard some people talk about there heritage in Louisville and when they say I'm German you would think that person was from rural Kentucky or another part of the South (yes this is based on one incident).
As far as Louisville's boom goes yeah we aren't an Austin or Jacksonville, But we are growing at a faster rate than Birmingham (a Deep Southern city). At 4% growth since 2000 for the most part we are in the range of other Southern cities like Memphis and Oklahoma city.
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Kentucky absolutely cannot be categorized as one thing or the other, no matter what anyone tells you. Eastern KY east of Lexington is most definitely Appalachian, and it is one of the poorest regions in the country. This area is a large reason KY has not hit the "new south" boom in stride bc many of the urban area tax dollars go to bailing this poverty out. The people in Appalachia have distinct nasally southern accents that are different than anywhere else.
Well Gych apparently most people feel that Kentucky is a Southern state which will be shown on the poll on this Mid-west forum. Also on the Southern focus survey taken Kentucky and Virginia tied with 86% of it's residence's identifing with the South, while the other Southern states were over 90%. Maryland and Delaware residences had fewer than 50% identifing with the South. Oklahoma had over 60% of their residences identifying with the South. Even you use to say that Kentucky was Southern, Louisville is not (during your whole Louisville isn't part of Kentucky argument which obviously didn't go to far) You also know that Louisville had over twice as many votes as a Southern city than Midwestern on the Skyscrapercity poll
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The most "southern aspect" of the city's history is the persistent availability of slaves that were used by the region's steamboat, railroad, and distilling aristocracy. In contrast to the true south, slaves were not as concentrated in Louisville nor would you find any plantations in the region. They merely served as household servants who would live in "cariage houses" in alleys behind the wealthy mansions. In fact, when you think about it, these early neighborhoods were ironically "integrated" withe the wealthy whites living on tree lined streets in mansions and their slaves living in servant quartes in densely packed carriage houses on back alleys.
Gych please stop lying just STOP IT! Louisville and the state of Kentucky have one of the largest slave owning populations in the South. Kentucky was not a "plantation slave state" most slave owners owned no more than 10 slaves, which ranked Kentucky at number 3 only behind Virginia and Georgia in that category. Like New Orleans; Louisville was a large Southern city which did not have alot of plantations. Louisville pioneered the art of being a large Urban Southern city, along with New Orleans. Gych we've been over this a thousand times when will it end. Having slaves automatically made a place Southern Gych in both mentallity and perspection from Yankees
The bible Belt obivously includes Louisville and Southern Indiana
Gych must you try to mislead these people in my absense. You base this argument on NOTHING, Louisville isn't a Hardcore Deep Southern city like Birmingham or Jackson, But we are Mid- Southern Gych. You seem to only want to see the extreme South during this argument you don't think of Richmond, Nashville, Va beach, or even Memphis. Also when you say Midwest you must think about Minneanapolis, Greenbay and Milwaulkee, now clearly Louisville has WAY! more historical and cultural signifigance with the deep Southern cities than the upper Midwestern cites I just mentioned.
Edited by Louisvilleslugger, 11 November 2006 - 10:45 PM.
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Weallneedhistory, on Oct 5 2006, 07:12 PM, said:
If you come here and ask for a soda, they'll understand you but they won't appreciate it.
