291 replies to this topic

[pdxheel]

DanRNC, on May 9 2006, 03:50 PM, said:

This is for the underground parking deck. Not all DENR employees were slated to be in this location. It was mainly for SECU. I don't believe this affects the project.

From a friend in the know...the parking deck is two levels below ground and he thinks 4 or 5 above ground.

[jlblaes]

DanRNC, on May 9 2006, 02:19 PM, said:

It was also good to see that NCMoA got its $40 million. NCSU also got $60 million for its new engineering complex on Centennial Campus.

On PDF page 202 there is $20M for a McDowell street parking deck.
Link

1. Department of Administration - McDowell Street Parking Deck
Funds are recommended to construct a 1,200 space parking deck across from the
Administration Building in Raleigh. The parking deck is needed to relieve overcrowding in
existing parking decks in the downtown government complex and to replace parking lost by
the Blount Street redevelopment project. It is recommended that revenue bonds be used to
Recommended Budget Adjustments, 2006-07 Capital Improvements
General Fund
202
fund this project. Debt service will be paid from parking fees generated by the deck and
other downtown parking.
Requirements - Nonrecurring $20,000,000
Receipts - Nonrecurring $20,000,000

[DanRNC]

So this parking deck is not at the Green Square site? That plot of land is too small to have an above ground lot.

[pdxheel]

DanRNC, on May 9 2006, 04:38 PM, said:

So this parking deck is not at the Green Square site? That plot of land is too small to have an above ground lot.

The section that was to be the DENR building is now a parking deck.

[ChiefJoJo]

So they scaled the project down and excluded DENR?  That really sucks.  I guess it may be due to construction cost inflation in the current market.  

BTW, the state has to tear down a small office bldg on McDowell to build Green Square.  This bldg houses some of NCDOT's traffic engineering staff, and I heard yesterday that the state is constructing a new bldg off US 70/I 40 in Garner for them.  I think it's just too expensive for the state to build in DT these days.  

[Jones133]

Based on internal updates I continue to get (I work for Division of Water Quality in DENR) I interpret all that stuff like so: The blue ridge road building is likely either an extension of the Reedy Creek Road Lab or Division of Air Quality folks (also part of DENR). Green Square will not show up in the State budget because the Credit Union is financing it. However it is probable that the parking deck will be built by the State as part of Green Square....it is supposed to have ground floor retail and stand apart from the Museum extension, [different] Lab and DENR space. DENR has someting on the order of 4000 (around 2500 located in or near Raleigh)employees and I would not expect for a second that the Archdale Building and Green Square could hold them all. I would not worry about Green Square one bit.

[avery]

Update on DENR and Easley's plan.  Doesn't look as favorable for downtown thanks to Easley.

West Raleigh DENR

Edited by avery, 10 May 2006 - 06:29 AM.

[transitman]

Relocating the Department of the Environment and Natural Resources to a very auto-dependent location with $20 million spent on parking?  

What a great idea!

Next, how about we move the Department of Health to Superfund site?

[Jones133]

Whatever they are doing, they need to hurry....talk around the Parker Lincoln Building (now 2728 Capital Blvd. ) is that it is being demolished within two years. Several DENR groups work out here and the planning for Green Square is much farther along, seemingly, than Blue Ridge Rd. DENR has even gone so far as to tell the various sections and divisions (within DENR) wether or not they will even end up in Green Square (I would actually end up in the Archdale Bldg.) I am still not convinced all is lost....Easley budgets often reflect political pressure from some some heavily biased angle (htink the lottery)....it is possbile some powers that be are pushing hard for Blue Ridge Road (like with the RBC center and other projects) over Green Square. The whole idea behind DENR getting some people in Green Square is that the Credit Union was financing it and the State could rent it (cheap) versus eating up a huge chunk of the budget building its own building. I am much more curious to see what Legislative proposals come forward.

[dmccall]

I get this crazy feeling the State Government hasn't noticed what we are all trying to do downtown. They build this monstrosity chiller tank think on Salisbury, and they're moving jobs out of downtown to the outskirts as fast as they can. Think about the jobs with DEHNR, The N. Blount St area, The Harrington St area, and Dorothea Dix. Not that any of the jobs were efficiently placed in those areas, but there is a significant group of people who will say they "used" to work downtown. Maybe the private sector will replace those jobs with more at a denser scale.

[ChiefJoJo]

Quote

Relocating the Department of the Environment and Natural Resources to a very auto-dependent location with $20 million spent on parking?

Quote

I get this crazy feeling the State Government hasn't noticed what we are all trying to do downtown.

At the end of the day, this budget is about the state of NC, and unfortunately even with a moderate surplus, the legislators form around the state probably don't care about DT Raleigh versus Blue Ridge Rd.  All they care about is getting their region some money/projects and that puts a lot of stress on the bottom line.  It's pretty clear that they don't care about keeping state workers DT either, despite a lot of pluses that can't be measured in an annual budget (consolidation of office space, reduce sprawl, better interagency coordination, etc.).  I hope that Raleigh's potential threat (see article) to pull money from Green Square causes the legislature to put this project back together as originally planned.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

ChiefJoJo, on May 10 2006, 08:31 AM, said:

At the end of the day, this budget is about the state of NC, and unfortunately even with a moderate surplus, the legislators form around the state probably don't care about DT Raleigh versus Blue Ridge Rd.  All they care about is getting their region some money/projects and that puts a lot of stress on the bottom line.  It's pretty clear that they don't care about keeping state workers DT either, despite a lot of pluses that can't be measured in an annual budget (consolidation of office space, reduce sprawl, better interagency coordination, etc.).  I hope that Raleigh's potential threat (see article) to pull money from Green Square causes the legislature to put this project back together as originally planned.

I am hoping that Mayor Meeker's threat to pull funing for this project would at least help facilitate talk with Gov. Easley? I think that the state should sale it's land off of Blueridge road, (get lots of cash). With that money build bldgs and put it's people back downtown. Just a thought! Also, I noticed that Larry Wheeler, (museum of art), got all of his requested money in the budget proposed by Easley. I live near this complex and find it one of the most unusual spots for a museum that I have ever seen. Wish it could be on the Dix property. Oh well!

[pdxheel]

The reason DENR is going to Blue Ridge and a Parking Deck to the Green Square site is cost and consolidation. With the redevelopment of the Blount Street Area state gov is losing a significant amount of parking spots, thus the need for parking at Green Square. Below ground at Green Square is too expensive (below ground was originally proposed under the Green Square DENR building). Also, there is an effort to locate all of DENR employees in one building and get them out of scattered leased space.

[Transplant]

pdxheel, on May 10 2006, 10:46 AM, said:

The reason DENR is going to Blue Ridge and a Parking Deck to the Green Square site is cost and consolidation. With the redevelopment of the Blount Street Area state gov is losing a significant amount of parking spots, thus the need for parking at Green Square. Below ground at Green Square is too expensive (below ground was originally proposed under the Green Square DENR building). Also, there is an effort to locate all of DENR employees in one building and get them out of scattered leased space.

Wouldn't the only difference in building a parking deck below ground (vs. above) be the cost to dig the hole? How much could that possibly be compared to a multimillion dollar project? Also, if it is about this money, they should bury it, and sell (or lease) the rights to the air space above it.

[Jones133]

pdxheel, on May 10 2006, 08:46 AM, said:

The reason DENR is going to Blue Ridge and a Parking Deck to the Green Square site is cost and consolidation. With the redevelopment of the Blount Street Area state gov is losing a significant amount of parking spots, thus the need for parking at Green Square. Below ground at Green Square is too expensive (below ground was originally proposed under the Green Square DENR building). Also, there is an effort to locate all of DENR employees in one building and get them out of scattered leased space.

As far as I know, Green Square parking has always been proposed as an above ground structure with commercial space incorporated into it at the SW corner of the block (NE corner of Edenton and McDowell), and it was supposed to be LNR's job to replace the lost parking in the Blount Street project (as well as the office space). Has that changed?

Edited by Jones133, 10 May 2006 - 11:47 AM.

[transitman]

pdxheel, on May 10 2006, 09:46 AM, said:

The reason DENR is going to Blue Ridge and a Parking Deck to the Green Square site is cost and consolidation. With the redevelopment of the Blount Street Area state gov is losing a significant amount of parking spots, thus the need for parking at Green Square. Below ground at Green Square is too expensive (below ground was originally proposed under the Green Square DENR building). Also, there is an effort to locate all of DENR employees in one building and get them out of scattered leased space.

AAACCKK!!!!  Losing parking spaces means people need ANOTHER WAY TO GET TO THE SITE, not that they necessarily need parking.  I'm sure this thinking is what informs the decision to move DENR, which makes me wonder if the same types of decisions will continue to get made when gas hits $5.00.

No harm meant pdx, I know you're just the messenger.

[avery]

It really would be a shame if our government jobs get sent to the outskirts of town.  I realize that it is all politics, but I think the state would be better off to sell chunks of land off Blue Ridge and use it to develop more in downtown Raleigh.  I realize that other parts of the state may not like the idea of tax money being spent on shiny new developments downtown though.  The problem is that a new building is a new building irregardless of its location.  Raleigh is our state capital people.   I think that does hold a certain amount of pride amongst all North Carolinians...or it should.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

avery, on May 10 2006, 02:28 PM, said:

It really would be a shame if our government jobs get sent to the outskirts of town.  I realize that it is all politics, but I think the state would be better off to sell chunks of land off Blue Ridge and use it to develop more in downtown Raleigh.  I realize that other parts of the state may not like the idea of tax money being spent on shiny new developments downtown though.  The problem is that a new building is a new building irregardless of its location.  Raleigh is our state capital people.   I think that does hold a certain amount of pride amongst all North Carolinians...or it should.

Agreed!
As I stated above:
I am hoping that Mayor Meeker's threat to pull funing for this project would at least help facilitate talk with Gov. Easley? I think that the state should sale it's land off of Blueridge road, (get lots of cash). With that money build bldgs and put it's people back downtown. Just a thought! Also, I noticed that Larry Wheeler, (museum of art), got all of his requested money in the budget proposed by Easley. I live near this complex and find it one of the most unusual spots for a museum that I have ever seen. Wish it could be on the Dix property. Oh well!  

[avery]

I live close to there too.  I find it an odd place for a museum as well.  I think it would be great on the Dix land.   I do enjoy it being close to me though   They have good food at the restaurant....ever been?

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

avery, on May 10 2006, 03:16 PM, said:

I live close to there too.  I find it an odd place for a museum as well.  I think it would be great on the Dix land.   I do enjoy it being close to me though   They have good food at the restaurant....ever been?

Exactly, the DIX land would be great! I could really see the new glass building that they want to build high on the hill especially at night. Oh well, when it comes to Larry Wheeler, he never ask. He just tells/instructs others with his opinion. Sorry! Just a little venting there!

Is the restaurant still being operated by the Irregardless Cafe people? If so then I have always enjoyed there food.