85 replies to this topic

[razorbackfan]

The Barber Group plans High-Rise Hotels, Office Space, Attract National Tenants...will be the tallest building in NWA....has anyone heard of this yet?


http://nwaonline.net...development.txt

[Mith242]

razorbackfan, on Jan 9 2006, 07:33 PM, said:

The Barber Group plans High-Rise Hotels, Office Space, Attract National Tenants...will be the tallest building in NWA....has anyone heard of this yet?
http://nwaonline.net...development.txt

Yeah RemusCal posted this in another topic.  I think it was the Legacy Building topic.  The Barber Groups has started doing some interesting things here in NWA.  I'm hoping they'll come out with more details soon.  If I'm not mistaken when the Renaissance Tower is finished it will be the tallest in NWA, at least for a little while.  At the moment it doesn't take a lot to be the tallest in NWA, although that may be changing in the near future.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

razorbackfan, on Jan 9 2006, 07:33 PM, said:

The Barber Group plans High-Rise Hotels, Office Space, Attract National Tenants...will be the tallest building in NWA....has anyone heard of this yet?
http://nwaonline.net...development.txt

500,000 square feet is a lot of space.  I'm sure they could get at least a 20 story tower out of that if they plan on making it the tallest in NWA.

I like the idea of the penthouse restaurant, too.  

I think the Joyce Blvd area is perfect for this type of development.

The only downside is the terrain is some of the lowest lying in the area and taller buildings there don't impact the overall skyline as much as if they were on higher ground.

Still, this may help get approval from the city as this area is the area of Fayetteville with the least of the "Fayetteville-feel" that most ordinances attempt to preserve.

The Barber Group seems ambitious and visionary.  The Legacy building is the type of development that is long overdue in downtown/Dickson area.

[Mith242]

DickSonstreetDFW, on Jan 9 2006, 11:21 PM, said:

500,000 square feet is a lot of space.  I'm sure they could get at least a 20 story tower out of that if they plan on making it the tallest in NWA.

I like the idea of the penthouse restaurant, too.  

I think the Joyce Blvd area is perfect for this type of development.

The only downside is the terrain is some of the lowest lying in the area and taller buildings there don't impact the overall skyline as much as if they were on higher ground.

Still, this may help get approval from the city as this area is the area of Fayetteville with the least of the "Fayetteville-feel" that most ordinances attempt to preserve.

The Barber Group seems ambitious and visionary.  The Legacy building is the type of development that is long overdue in downtown/Dickson area.

Good point.  Although as I said before I guess I prefer a more centralized area for Fayetteville's taller buildings. Although maybe I wouldn't mind seeing some more traditional looking highrises in the downtown and maybe more modern looking ones around Joyce.

[masons_dad1]

Mith242, on Jan 10 2006, 05:22 AM, said:

Good point.  Although as I said before I guess I prefer a more centralized area for Fayetteville's taller buildings. Although maybe I wouldn't mind seeing some more traditional looking highrises in the downtown and maybe more modern looking ones around Joyce.

Having a skyscraper built at each of the most developed areas of Fayetteville would make tall building more sparse but it would make the city as a whole look more modern.

[mcheiss]

I guess the big question is who's getting it?

Rogers or Fayetteville?

[DickSonstreetDFW]

masons_dad1, on Jan 10 2006, 06:02 AM, said:

Having a skyscraper built at each of the most developed areas of Fayetteville would make tall building more sparse but it would make the city as a whole look more modern.

I think that the "modern" taller buildings are much better suited to northern Fayetteville (after living in Dallas I am tempted to start using the term "uptown").

The downtown/Dickson areas don't need this type of development.  People love Fayetteville for its mountain views, hilly streets, and small-town feel.  I'd hate to see a 25-30 story glass shard jutting up out of downtown Fayetteville.  I just don't think thats the place for it asthetically.

I think a good area for this type of mid/high rise canyon most people on here seem to want to see develop is alone Fulbright Expressway and in the east Joyce Blvd area.  You already have Washington Regional and the Staffmark/Tyson building.  Fulbright Expwy gives the high profile and accessibility to points northward to make it a viable office cluster location.  It combines easy access to Benton County, while staying close enough for lunch in Fayetteville and for employees who want to live in and enjoy Fayetteville's quality of life.

I could see several 8-15 story classical styled brick and masonry type buildings clustered around downtown Fayetteville as I believe they would blend into the current environment well.  I think the primary focus for downtown/Dickson at this point shouldn't be throwing up mid-high rises, but on developing a more coherent streetscape, improving walkability and the pedestrian shopping/entertainment experience.  I think thats best accomplished with more infill of the type of Three Sisters and Legacy mixed use.  It creates the density and variety needed for a thriving downtown, without detracting from the ambiance that makes Fayetteville, well Fayetteville.

Edited by DickSonstreetDFW, 10 January 2006 - 08:37 AM.

[mcheiss]

DickSonstreetDFW, on Jan 10 2006, 08:33 AM, said:

I think that the "modern" taller buildings are much better suited to northern Fayetteville (after living in Dallas I am tempted to start using the term "uptown").

The downtown/Dickson areas don't need this type of development.  People love Fayetteville for its mountain views, hilly streets, and small-town feel.  I'd hate to see a 25-30 story glass shard jutting up out of downtown Fayetteville.  I just don't think thats the place for it asthetically.

I agree with you, and so does the Fayetteville Planning Commission. I doubt that they would approve of a 20 Floor Building in Downtown Fayetteville as the Renaissance Project (Mountain Inn Redevelopment) barely got approved and it's 16 Floors.

I would like to see more Mid Rises in Downtown Fayetteville, as it fits in with the current architecture right now.

[Mith242]

I would like to have more midrises in the downtown area but I wouldn't mind building up a little more in the near future around the downtown.  But I wouldn't anything quite so modern or post-modern looking in the downtown area.  But I do agree on the comment of having more mixed-use and such downtown.  I wouldn't want a bunch of empty office buildings necessarily in the downtown area.  You have some outrageous examples in places even like London where 'the city' area is basically just office buildings and is basically deserted after sunset.  The Fulbright Expressway is a good example of a place to put in some nice modern high-rises.  I wish they hadn't put in so many 1 to 2 story buildings not so many years ago.  A few more buildings like the old Staffmark Building (currently Tyson) would have been great.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

Mith242, on Jan 10 2006, 03:11 PM, said:

I would like to have more midrises in the downtown area but I wouldn't mind building up a little more in the near future around the downtown.  But I wouldn't anything quite so modern or post-modern looking in the downtown area.  But I do agree on the comment of having more mixed-use and such downtown.  I wouldn't want a bunch of empty office buildings necessarily in the downtown area.  You have some outrageous examples in places even like London where 'the city' area is basically just office buildings and is basically deserted after sunset.  The Fulbright Expressway is a good example of a place to put in some nice modern high-rises.  I wish they hadn't put in so many 1 to 2 story buildings not so many years ago.  A few more buildings like the old Staffmark Building (currently Tyson) would have been great.

The Fullbright Expwy corridor would have been ideal for a mid-high rise canyon should one ever come about in Fayetteville.

When the original development on the northern side with the Target and other retail began, there was a huge fight over the loss of several big trees that stood in that field.  For those who weren't around back then, there are a few of those trees still standing between the Target and Kohls.  There were about five times as many of those huge, old growth oaks in that field, and it truly was a shame to see them go.  I remember following the story and feeling that Kohl's could have been more creative in their design and parking layout to preserve more of the trees than they did.  

Now that the tide of commercial development has rushed over the entire property, its sometimes hard to remember what used to be a rural beautiful setting with towering oaks.

That said, progress has overtaken the area, and the CMN business park is a reality.  It seems like everytime I go back up there another couple of restaurants have opened in what used to be a field.

Most of the office development along Milsap on the southside, the Staffmark/Tyson building being the exception, is one story, and mostly geared towards the medical park surrounding Washington Regional.

A real visionary developer should see the visual impact of towers along that stretch of highway and the accessibility for vendors to Benton County while still being in Fayetteville.

I believe that if a skyline of any substance is to evolve in NWA, this area is a good candidate.

Speculative office tower construction requires large egos.  It appears the biggest egos for now reside in Benton County.

[Mith242]

Yeah I certainly remember about the trees.  I've heard that Target did a much better job at preserving the trees on it's land.  Although I'm still not sure how noticeable they are.  There looks to be some developments going on to the northwest of Target in that area.  I've also noticed some groundwork for something just to the northeast of Washington Regional, but I haven't figured out what it's going to be.  I would imagine just some small doctor's offices or something.  But maybe we can still hope for a skyline to develop around the Fullbright Expressway sometime in the near future.  Although it seems a bit odd to tear down buildings that haven't been there but a decade or so.  But all of this does go to either Fayetteville not restricting growth enough or perhaps too much.  There was a short period there where a number of council members seemed to be wanting almost no growth.  I think the city seems to have found a better middle ground between the two.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

Mith242, on Jan 10 2006, 03:58 PM, said:

Yeah I certainly remember about the trees.  I've heard that Target did a much better job at preserving the trees on it's land.  Although I'm still not sure how noticeable they are.  There looks to be some developments going on to the northwest of Target in that area.  I've also noticed some groundwork for something just to the northeast of Washington Regional, but I haven't figured out what it's going to be.  I would imagine just some small doctor's offices or something.  But maybe we can still hope for a skyline to develop around the Fullbright Expressway sometime in the near future.  Although it seems a bit odd to tear down buildings that haven't been there but a decade or so.  But all of this does go to either Fayetteville not restricting growth enough or perhaps too much.  There was a short period there where a number of council members seemed to be wanting almost no growth.  I think the city seems to have found a better middle ground between the two.

Part of the reason an office tower project of large scale has not developed in Fayetteville is due to the fact that its primary employer, the U of A, has its own offices and towers.  A large sector of the population is also retirees and college students.  There's not a lot of corporate activity in Fayetteville proper, and therefore not a great deal of demand.

I thnk the only hope Fayetteville has of attracting enough office activity to fill a larger tower or towers is by catering the needs of the corporate activity to the north.  That is why Fullbright makes the most sense.  It will take a large, high profile development of the kind BG is speculating about to create that demand, kind of in the same manner Village on the Creeks created a high end retail location.  If you build it, they will come.

If there was a shiny new Class A office tower fronting Fullbright either north or south with the latest ammenities, I believe Fayetteville could lure some of the office activity away from Benton county.

[Mith242]

DickSonstreetDFW, on Jan 10 2006, 04:45 PM, said:

Part of the reason an office tower project of large scale has not developed in Fayetteville is due to the fact that its primary employer, the U of A, has its own offices and towers.  A large sector of the population is also retirees and college students.  There's not a lot of corporate activity in Fayetteville proper, and therefore not a great deal of demand.

I thnk the only hope Fayetteville has of attracting enough office activity to fill a larger tower or towers is by catering the needs of the corporate activity to the north.  That is why Fullbright makes the most sense.  It will take a large, high profile development of the kind BG is speculating about to create that demand, kind of in the same manner Village on the Creeks created a high end retail location.  If you build it, they will come.

If there was a shiny new Class A office tower fronting Fullbright either north or south with the latest ammenities, I believe Fayetteville could lure some of the office activity away from Benton county.

Good point, but I do think there is room for some nice office space in Fayetteville.  I still see some companies renting out office space in old grocery stores in the city.  I'd rather get these offices into more proper buildings and redevelop there old grocery stores into something else.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

Mith242, on Jan 10 2006, 05:49 PM, said:

Good point, but I do think there is room for some nice office space in Fayetteville.  I still see some companies renting out office space in old grocery stores in the city.  I'd rather get these offices into more proper buildings and redevelop there old grocery stores into something else.

I seem to remember a call center operating out of an old grocery store on N. College when I lived there.  Unfortunately, these call center type businesses can operate out of pretty primitive office space with a few cubicles as they do not have to entertain clients on site, etc.  I'm sure they are getting a sweet deal on rent/psf there as well.  

I have no idea what vacancy rates for class A office space are in Fayetteville.

Most of the attorneys are going to want to be near the courthouse downtown, (which I believe was initially constructed speculatively during the S&L boom and sold the county after the bust).

It will take a developer, like Barber, going out on a limb to develop a nice tower at a high profile location in north Fayetteville and the tenants will trickle in.  Build something nice enough, and you might snag an office or two with a larger corporate presence currently in Benton County.  After one sizeable project, you can set the tone in an area, like East Joyce Blvd, and the next project or two won't be as speculative as tenants will be more willing to relocate to a more established office park and sign leases pre construction.

Fayetteville is still very limited to the number of tenants that will and can pay for class A office space.  Their best bet is to draft off of Vendorville for the time being, and sell Fayetteville's number one asset- quality of life.

Edited by DickSonstreetDFW, 11 January 2006 - 01:09 PM.

[mcheiss]

DickSonstreetDFW, on Jan 11 2006, 01:00 PM, said:

I have no idea what vacancy rates for class A office space are in Fayetteville.

I think the Skyline Report had Fayetteville in the range of 6-8% Class A Office Space Vacancy.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

mcheiss, on Jan 11 2006, 01:32 PM, said:

I think the Skyline Report had Fayetteville in the range of 6-8% Class A Office Space Vacancy.

Wow, that is low.  There is some pent up demand for a good office project.

[mcheiss]

DickSonstreetDFW, on Jan 11 2006, 01:33 PM, said:

Wow, that is low.  There is some pent up demand for a good office project.

It's a far cry from Bentonville where the vacancy is around 20%.

[masons_dad1]

I wish the company I work for would move us into one of the new office buildings but I don't see that happening since they own the building we're currently in. I think it would be awesome having an office somewhere around the 10th floor of a highrise especially since I work 3rd shift the view at night would be something.

Of course the guys over at Wal-Mart don't get windows anyway so they wouldn't be missing much.  

[mcheiss]

masons_dad1, on Jan 12 2006, 02:11 AM, said:

I wish the company I work for would move us into one of the new office buildings but I don't see that happening since they own the building we're currently in. I think it would be awesome having an office somewhere around the 10th floor of a highrise especially since I work 3rd shift the view at night would be something.

Of course the guys over at Wal-Mart don't get windows anyway so they wouldn't be missing much.  

Are you a vendor Masons_Dad?

I am very displeased with the way developers in Bentonville built the sprawl of vendor offices. If they would have thought smart, they could have built mid-rises and high-rises around the home office or near the Downtown corridor or in other parts. I know some of the space is used for warehouse and showroom, but developers could have done a better job.

[masons_dad1]

mcheiss, on Jan 12 2006, 02:03 PM, said:

Are you a vendor Masons_Dad?

I am very displeased with the way developers in Bentonville built the sprawl of vendor offices. If they would have thought smart, they could have built mid-rises and high-rises around the home office or near the Downtown corridor or in other parts. I know some of the space is used for warehouse and showroom, but developers could have done a better job.

I work for a vendor Matt, but I won't elaborate because it sounds like you work at either the Home Office or the ISD Building, which in the case of the latter I may say something could get me into trouble.  

The office I work at has been here long before Vendorville was a thought. The building needs a face lift.

Edited by masons_dad1, 12 January 2006 - 05:21 PM.