205 replies to this topic

[dfwtiger]

Leonard23, on Jul 25 2006, 09:48 AM, said:

Article from The Birmingham News

Thank the Lord!  Finally, somebody with good sense has listened and realized that there needs to be a limiting of traffic signals, curb cuts, median cuts, and access in general on that blain highway.  Maybe now since this plan has been layed out finally there can be some action with the creation those urban interchanges planned on the western end of US 280 in Jefferson and Northern Shelby counties.  I hope one day either there is total limited access with access roads and urban interchanges of US 280 from the Red Mountain Expressway to the Shelby/Talladega line or the upgrading of US 280 to 8-lane limited access freeway w/ HOV lanes.

This area needs a mass tranist element.  If not, future generations will look back at our decisions and wonder what we were smoking.  We can not build the lanes necessary to get out of the mess.  The easier we make to get from point A to point B....the further point B will move away from point A.

[kayman]

There was an article in the Sunday edition of The Birmingham News that discussed the lack of proper use of the 14 highway messageboards in the area.  However, nearly none of the police departments report the traffic incidents or accidents on the area's freeways.  Here's the article: Why is this sign still blank?

Honestly, it all comes down to imcompetence IMO.  Once again surprise, surprise Birmingham doesn't even try to coordinately tries to report its traffic problems to the control center on Arkadelphia Road.    They said they that has not been one of their priorities.  I can understand Trussville's problem because apparently somebody at the ALDOT didn't give them the right number to call in.  It is a shame that after all these years of problems with those boards apparently somebody still hasn't got this mess right.

Another thing to bring into this discussion, US280 and its lack of more messageboards and traffic cameras.  Why isn't there more cameras monitoring and warn commuters of traffic on the area's most problematic highway?  When is the full ITS network ever going to get up and properly running in this region b/c we still have to place fiber optic traffic speed sensors into area roadways to determine the flow/speed of traffic?

Edited by Leonard23, 27 July 2006 - 09:14 AM.

[Blazer85]

I think, in part, the problem is that they arent getting cooperation from all the various municipal police forces.  The police must report to the information center whenever there's a wreck.  The traffic cameras can see some accidents, but that covers a very limited area of the interstate system through Birmingham.  I also think they dont have a full-time paid staff that is standing by at the information center at the ready to post relevant traffic information.  If we could get all the police around the metro reporting interstate accidents, the message boards could actually become reliable sources of information.

[kayman]

Article from The Birmingham News

The Shelby County Chamber of Commerce[s] is going to continue to lobby the county's state legislators to progress and find solutions for their congested roads.  They are trying to campaign via advertisements, surveys, and public hearings.

[codyg1985]

A good start would be to stop bending over backwards for developers.

[kayman]

There is now some hope for the messageboards.  The Birmingham Division director of the ALDOT has sent out requests to the 17 different law enforcement agencies that cover the area.  Nearly all of them have responded and the plan is to have the 14 messageboards all reporting traffic conditions and incidents by September.  Also they was a mentioning of the expansion of the ASAP auto assistance service to all the area freeways as well as secondary highways of US 280, US 11, US 78, and US 31.

[kayman]

There is now some hope for the messageboards.  The Birmingham Division director of the ALDOT has sent out requests to the 17 different law enforcement agencies that cover the area.  Nearly all of them have responded and the plan is to have the 14 messageboards all reporting traffic conditions and incidents by September.  Also they was a mentioning of the expansion of the ASAP auto assistance service to all the area freeways as well as secondary highways of US 280, US 11, US 78, and US 31.

[kayman]

codyg1985, on May 24 2006, 09:35 PM, said:

The Progress 280 (PDF) study calls for service roads and "urban interchanges" between I-459 and Hugh Daniel Drive.  West of I-459, it was determined that intersections should be relocated.  This study also takes into consideration BRT.

I am not sure how this would compare to a service road/urban interchange system for US 280.  How would you get onto the elevated road if you did not happen to be where it began or ended?  The Florida project seems to only shuttle commuters from Tampa to the eastern suburb of Brandon, non-stop.  That solution is impractical for US 280.  

I should also mention that during the construction of the elevated road in Florida that this same engineering group designed, some of the piers that would hold up the elevated tollway collapsed into the ground, delaying the project.

Why am I not surprised?  I am usually so pro-Progress 280, this is one of the dumbest things I've seen them promote ever.  They are asking for trouble with this project.  Just wait all the NIMBYs that helped kill the upgrading of US 280 back in the 1980's will resurface just to stop this project as well.

[kayman]

Also here are 2 updates to this outlandish project.  This are just so jung ho on this project and they are set to propose this project before the ALDOT in the spring.  

Engineer shows plan for a raised 280

Skylane toll plan offers bridge relief for US 280

[AlabamaGuy2007]

codyg1985, on May 24 2006, 09:35 PM, said:

The Progress 280 (PDF) study calls for service roads and "urban interchanges" between I-459 and Hugh Daniel Drive.  West of I-459, it was determined that intersections should be relocated.  This study also takes into consideration BRT.

I am not sure how this would compare to a service road/urban interchange system for US 280.  How would you get onto the elevated road if you did not happen to be where it began or ended?  The Florida project seems to only shuttle commuters from Tampa to the eastern suburb of Brandon, non-stop.  That solution is impractical for US 280.  

I should also mention that during the construction of the elevated road in Florida that this same engineering group designed, some of the piers that would hold up the elevated tollway collapsed into the ground, delaying the project.

Now, I'm not the authority on the soil composition in the Birmingham area.  But, isn't Tampa's soil kinda weaker than the soil in Birmingham??

[kayman]

I am just annoyed how Progress 280 would chose such a reckless route of finding a solution to the traffic woes such a ridiculously large structure on a roadway.  We all know that US 280 simply needs upgrading to expressway or even freeway status like Memorial Parkway in Huntsville.  It may take 5 to 7 years for this full conversion to occur from Red Mtn. Expressway to I-459 but it needs to be done.

[kayman]

AlabamaGuy2007, on Aug 18 2006, 06:13 PM, said:

Now, I'm not the authority on the soil composition in the Birmingham area.  But, isn't Tampa's soil kinda weaker than the soil in Birmingham??

Yes.  Occuring to general knowledge of soil compositions of the Florida Peninsula is that the vast majority of it is limestone with weak soil.   However, that show poor judgement and lack of good job on the engineering firms part if they started construction on pilings and didn't do the proper soil testing.

[rtkenmore]

Leonard23, on Aug 20 2006, 03:46 PM, said:

Yes.  Occuring to general knowledge of soil compositions of the Florida Peninsula is that the vast majority of it is limestone with weak soil.   However, that show poor judgement and lack of good job on the engineering firms part if they started construction on pilings and didn't do the proper soil testing.

With everyone suggesting 280 be upgraded like Memorial Parkway in Huntsville, I have to throw in my two cents...

Memorial Parkway is an absolute nightmare when it comes to entrance and exit ramps.  You could not design a poorer design requiring people to cross lanes so much in order to exit the roadway.  If you can't happen to get over at just the right spot, you're stuck hoping you can get over at the next spot.

I think the elevated roadway is a great idea because it will allow people that live at the far reaches of it in Greystone, Eagle Lakes, Highland Lakes, etc. to get on at downtown and cruise all the way home unimpeded.  I would imagine they would do exit and entrance ramps at major intersections such as Lakeshor Parkway, Highway 31, 459, Inverness Parkway, etc. so that traffic to ease on and off the elevated roadway.  This would allow strictly local traffic to remain on the ground lanes for their local trip.

I mean, what would you prefer, the state come in and take another 50-100 feet on either side of the roadway in order to widen it to accomodate traffic?  At least with the elevated bridge, you get essentially 10 lanes of traffice in the same space as where 6 lanes now exist.  That's a tremendous benefit and it also keeps untold numbers of people and business' being displaced to obtain more right of way.

[HSVTiger]

rtkenmore, on Aug 21 2006, 12:04 PM, said:

With everyone suggesting 280 be upgraded like Memorial Parkway in Huntsville, I have to throw in my two cents...

Memorial Parkway is an absolute nightmare when it comes to entrance and exit ramps.  You could not design a poorer design requiring people to cross lanes so much in order to exit the roadway.  If you can't happen to get over at just the right spot, you're stuck hoping you can get over at the next spot.

agree with that, no road in HSV is an example of good design. The Parkway was and is a stopgap solution
to a bad problem. The best solution will be Patriot Parkway(Southern Bypass) oh we are still waiting for
that. While this elevated portion is probably the best solution, everyone posting on this thread will be dead
before if and when it is completed.It is beyond ALDOT's capability.

here is Austin TX version, works very well

Edited by HSVTiger, 21 August 2006 - 01:42 PM.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

That looks very unobtrusive (sp?).  It doesn't seem to take away any feeling of openness.

[3choBoomer]

AlabamaGuy2007, on Aug 21 2006, 06:06 PM, said:

That looks very unobtrusive (sp?).  It doesn't seem to take away any feeling of openness.

You're being sarcastic right?

[HSVTiger]

3choBoomer, on Aug 23 2006, 08:23 AM, said:

You're being sarcastic right?

I think it shows how misleading the rendering I saw compares to a real highway.
The rendering appeared to be way out of scale and unable to carry the proper load.
Plus in the article did it say it would be planned to be widened in the future?
Birmingham and ALDOT should send people who know what they are doing to Tampa
and Austin and take a look. Didn't the Governor suggest this in the beginning?
Does ALDOT realize there are good solutions all around the country if they would look?
When you are on the top level it is wide open

[AlabamaGuy2007]

3choBoomer, on Aug 23 2006, 09:23 AM, said:

You're being sarcastic right?

Pretty much what HSVTiger said.  I mean, when I first heard about all of this, it sounded like it was gonna be huge and bulky with gigantic gurders blocking any thing from view.  But that one in Austin is completely different from what it sounded like.  So, no I wasn't being sarcastic, it just looks much better than I had originially thought.

[convulso]

the one in san antonio looks fine, and it actually works. haven't seen the austin one before now.

the problem is not aesthetic for me (though even when it's done well i think it's hideous); it's the need to curb car access to outlying areas that need to shrink, not grow. the better the car access is to inverness (and farther out), the quicker the city of Bham withers. choke off auto access to the 'burbs, and people will start viewing the city and its closer environs as attractive places to live.

Edited by convulso, 24 August 2006 - 12:19 PM.

[SweetHomeColorado]

The Austin photo looks much different than the renderings that I have seen of the 280 proposal - a single column support both directions.  This highway is the same as those that run through downtown New Orleans, for that matter by the BJCC downtown with a hugh swath of dead space/parking underneath.  

There is now way that 280 would look like that.  It looks like they want to build the support columns in the median and leave the existing lanes largely where they are.  

Regardless, there are multiple bad consequences of this project.  

First, how much will it cost?  It has to be astronomical.  It will essentially be a tax payer subsidized project to support the development of more green space in Shelby County.  Isn't there enough already?  Wouldn't it be much more advantageous to the city and the state to encourage development elsewhere?