348 replies to this topic

[atlrvr]

Just a quick question.......how is MARTA funded?  Does the authority have a taxing district that exceeds municipal borders, or is it reliant on Atlant and state funds only?

[paulblackgsx]

atlrvr, on Jun 8 2005, 07:41 AM, said:

Just a quick question.......how is MARTA funded?  Does the authority have a taxing district that exceeds municipal borders, or is it reliant on Atlant and state funds only?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

MARTA is funded by a 1% sales tax on Fulton and Dekalb counties.  No tax districts, no state funds.  MARTA's 1% sales tax in those counties expires in 2032 and the voters choose not to extend it, which means MARTA can not issue bonds against future revenues (since most bonds are 30 year bonds).

MARTA is not expected to fund either the Beltline, Peachtree Street car, or any of the other streetcar proposals I've heard of.  All of them are looking for alternative funds (tax districts mostly).

[orulz]

This is a bit dubious as to relevance, but I thought I'd point out that the Atlanta Beltline shares some similarities with the most successful and heavily used transit loop in the world: the Yamanote line in Tokyo. Most significantly, both are 22 miles long. Both are wider in the north-south dimension than east-west. Both are made up by joining together segments of other existing railroads rather than starting from scratch.

There are significant differences, however. The Yamanote line is a heavy rail line (actualy, regional rail, since it's operated by JR and other trains share the same right of way). The beltline will be much more human-scale, with LRVs or streetcars and numerous grade crossings. The Yamanote has 26 stations; the Beltline, as originally concieved, would have 45.

The Yamanote line has been in place for so long that Tokyo literally grew up around it. The city would practically grind to a halt without the Yamanote line, since it links so many of the most important districts of the city together.

While the parallel between Tokyo and Atlanta is a stretch, perhaps in time, Atlanta will grow up around the Beltline and it will become a similarly important asset to the city.

[paulblackgsx]

Quote

The Yamanote line has been in place for so long that the Tokyo literally grew up around it.

I think you bring up a great point, one which is often lost on Atlanta politicans and boosters.  Building transit first and controlling the development around transit is much better than attempting to provide transit to low density units or waiting until an area is developed.  Although the beltline does have the advantage of not needing to worry about development building over the ROW for transit, it's still seems that Atlantans in general don't seem to understand the benefit of transit first.

[Lady Celeste]

Here's an update on the Atlanta Beltway:

Atlanta Beltway Updates.

This is turning out to be interesting. I am really excited about this. I hope it is realized in a true urban sense. This could really make intown living even more popular.  

[teshadoh]

Uhm... Ironchapman, that's the same article that Celeste posted.  It is actually through Planetizen - which is a planning news portal that selected the AJC article.

[teshadoh]

Just naggin' ya!   But I do hate waiting for more info on the Beltline, it's going to be a long wait though...

[orulz]

In case you haven't been following the play-by-play, a bunch of the major Beltline boosters have gotten together and formed the Beltline Partnership with the mission of putting their heads together and making the project happen.

They have also produced a number of new reports and maps for your consumption, and posted some other reports that were pre-existing, but I hadn't seen yet.

Here is the latest map:


The reports include:

• A complete overview of the Beltline; (Sept 7, 2005)
  
• The Redevelopment Plan; (Sept 2, 2005)
  
• the Rails to Trails Conservancy's Reconnecting Communities report
  
• And a comprehensive list of all the other studies and reports produced to this date.

I really hope the Beltline happens. There is nothing else on the horizon that has this much potential to change Atlanta's cityscape forever. It could turn a lot of neglected and auto-centric parts of the city into vibrant, mixed-use, pedestrian-friendly urban territory. Unlike decades past, people want to move in to Atlanta proper - lots of them just need something solid to grasp before they take the plunge. The beltline is that something. This will be similar to the way that Metrorail triggered an urban metamorphasis in the area surrounding Washington, DC.

[orulz]

The entire Redevelopment Plan report is a 108mb download but it's well worth it. They have diagrams, perspective renderings, elevations, and before/after simulations of the urban form surrounding the 12 major redevelopment "nodes" on the beltline. The tallest building that they suggest around these "nodes" are from 10-15 stories, with 5-8 being the general rule. Sounds exciting to me, but...

So far, it's all just talk. Obviously a huge amount of time and money has gone into producing these reports, but it's all for nothing unless they can actually pull it off without a decade of delay.

[ironchapman]

Here's something I just found. Anybody else seen it?

A panel of transportation experts has recently released a report that would question if the Beltline, or at least some portions of it, would get enough ridership to justify being built. However, this panel also expressed their support of creating a Tax Allocation District to fund the Beltline, something that our city council will be voting on whether or not to create next week. They argue that creating the Beltline because the parks, trails, and transit proposed in the idea would improve the city's quality of life greatly.

The AJC Article

[Lady Celeste]

ironchapman, on Sep 30 2005, 11:12 AM, said:

They argue that creating the Beltline because the parks, trails, and transit proposed in the idea would improve the city's quality of life greatly.

The AJC Article

Thank you for your post Jake.

Above I used a quote from your posting because I feel this is the paramount reason that the Beltline is so important. Parks and trails will be lures to people with children. While Atlanta's growth has been steadily increasing, most of this increase has been via singles. Familes with children will offer even more vitality to the city center. The Beltline will tie in so many parts of the city. Imagine a nice school near or next to the Beltline. Parents would be able to ride from Monroe to their children's school by Howell Mill, hope back on the Beltline, take it to Lindbergh Marta Station, ride to the Dunwoody station for shopping at Perimeter Mall and be back in time to pick up the little ones by schools end. All without ever having to drive. Once they get to the Monroe destination, the parent could then allow their children to play in the new greenspace created by the Beltline.   

Okay.....sorry, I was dreaming.......but the Beltline would definitely help bring more families to the city center.

[ironchapman]

Hate to dampen the positive spirit about the Beltline that we've seen in recent days, but this article in the AJC offers a slightly more cynical, pessimistic look toward sthe idea because of recent developments with the people backing the proposal. The supporters and campaigners fro the plan are going to have to work extra hard to convince non-supporters now that many of the proposals details have emerged. The city elections in November only compliacte the issue.

Although I wouldn't worry too much about having supporters in elected offices being booted out this November. Most of atlanta's districts seem happy with their current represenative. Same goes for Mayor Frankli, who is still running without any major opposition.

Edited by ironchapman, 02 October 2005 - 02:52 PM.

[ironchapman]

According to this AJC Article, a national land conservation group is looking to spend &1 mil an acre to buy land for the etline in some places around Atlanta.

Right now, they are trying to buy 39 acres near North Avenue to create a new park. They are looking in several other places around Atlanta to buy some of the beltline's land so that other people won't buy it with conflicting interests in mind.

[ironchapman]

If memory serves me right, this seems like an appropriate place to post this.

According to recent AJC article, the city could support the financial cost of the Beltline. They say that the city could manage these costs for the next 30 years. By that time, the cirty would have hopefully paid off the money it borrowed to build the Beltline.

The city council is expected to vote on the subject on November 7th, the day before city elections. A shortage in the amount of information about the Beltline's financial impact is what has delaye3d the voted for so long.

The Aricle (From the AJC)

[Spartan]

The Beltline is such a great project becuase it encourages Transit Oriented Development (which means higher densities). Both of which Atlanta needs desparately.

[teshadoh]

Atlanta does need higher densities, but in the appropriate centers & corridors.  Not all of the planned development locations are the best locations for higher density - but what is needed is greenspace.  Which might be the greatest battle, there are two conflicting plans, one developed by Wayne Mason for his segment of the Beltline, and the other developed by greenway advocates which proposes a ring of parkspace.

There is still plenty of developable land in Downtown & Midtown in addition to the immediate corridors leading out of this central area.  Developing higher densities in areas without transit (the Beltline isn't built yet nor for a long while) & which the street infrastructure is already near congestion levels is not smart growth.  There are corridors that bisect the Beltline, which would be good locations for higher density, but the most recent plan at 10th & Monroe is a terrible location.

[ironchapman]

teshadoh, on Oct 12 2005, 09:17 PM, said:

Atlanta does need higher densities, but in the appropriate centers & corridors.  Not all of the planned development locations are the best locations for higher density - but what is needed is greenspace.  Which might be the greatest battle, there are two conflicting plans, one developed by Wayne Mason for his segment of the Beltline, and the other developed by greenway advocates which proposes a ring of parkspace.

Which one of the plans do you think is better for Atlanta? What about for the Beltline to turn out according to the original vision?

BTW: I see you points about Atlanta needing the density and added greenspace.

Quote

The Beltline is such a great project becuase it encourages Transit Oriented Development (which means higher densities). Both of which Atlanta needs desparately.

Like teshadoh has mentioned, greenspace is another good benefit of the Beltline. Atlanta has one of the lowest percentages of greenspace in the nation when compared to city size.

Edited by ironchapman, 12 October 2005 - 07:27 PM.

[ryanmckibben]

I wrote the position paper on the beltline for the Midtown Neighbors Association, and I will repeat part of it here:

“The “green space” portion of the beltline should and must move forward as soon as possible. This means the bike/jogging lanes, parkland, and securing the right of way for what will one day become a viable transit corridor. Building the transit portion of the belt line now is putting the cart before the horse. There are numerous other transit projects that need to be funded and have the surrounding density of employment/residence to support it now. This project will eat up ALL of our available TAD space for the next 27 +/- years and won’t really do anything to help alleviate traffic. Once again we seem to be pushing forward with a project that may be politically popular, but probably is not the ideal solution. Streetcars on some of our busier streets should be our top priority.”

I believed this to be true when I wrote it, and I believe it to be true now.

[Andrea]

What Ryan said.  We need the greenspace of the Beltline desperately -- and ultimately we'll need it for a transportation corridor as well.  But I'd like to see transportation initiatives such the Peachtree Streetcar prioritized.  They're viable right now, with relatively modest legal and financial requirements.

[ironchapman]

Hotlanta, on Oct 13 2005, 11:03 PM, said:

I think the beltway should be developed like Manhattan's 9A West St. An at grade avenue with 3 lanes on each side with few intersections, dedicated pedestrian and bike lanes on each side, flowers and trees in the middle. But, also highrises on the side with ground level commercial. Where is this supposed to be anyway? I have never figured this out! Does anybody have a map?

It is supposed to surround Downtown and Midtown and a few nearby neighborhoods.

If you know your MARTA map here is the Beltline with the existing MARTA routes.