105 replies to this topic

[KendallKid]

TaureanJ, on Feb 18 2006, 09:42 PM, said:

But couldn't one in Orlando argue they can do everything one can do in (Miami except the beach)?

No you cant go to the zoo in orlando. You cant go to World Class clubs and restraunts.  And last time I checked You cant watch any pro sports teams outside of basketball. So no no you cant.

[KendallKid]

JRS1, on Feb 18 2006, 11:44 PM, said:

I love Miami, but its no Manhattan.  There's no Times Square; no Central Park; and no 5th Avenue.
---------
Noone ever said anything about Orlando being mentioned in the same league as Miami.  Miami may be Florida's premier city, but we need to keep things in perspective.

Look, Orlando might not have Shaq, the 'fins, or a baseball team looking to move b/c they can't get the city to pony up the $$$ to get them to stay, however, for its size, Orlando has things that can't just be swept under a rug b/c Miami folk have big egos:
  
-OIA - Florida's busiest airport; JetBlue's natl. pilot training facility & Fed Ex's main Fla. Dist. hub  which left Ft. lauderdale Intl. for OIA 5 years ago; & Virgin Airlines' busiest US hub;
-Orange Co. CC- the 2nd largest convention ctr. in US, and 2nd busiest convention market to Vegas, actually;
-world class convention hotels way bigger than Miami's largest;
-2nd largest amount of hotel rooms (2nd to Vegas) in US and prob. the world;
-The #1 tourist destination in the WORLD.  Vegas is 2nd.
-Golf Channel, and host to 2 PGA tounaments per year.
-the theme parks, which is obvious...
-Port Canaveral- 30 minutes from OIA and home to Disney Cruise Line and serviced heavily by OIA, is ranked as high as 2nd behind Miami as the world's 2nd busiest cruise port.

I guess if Orlando was in Miami's league, as our Lethal Weapon fan claimed that its not, then it wouldn't enjoy these prestigious lofty rankings and resources which are good indicators of a city's worth and reputation as being a world-leader destination city and nationally recognized and respected business meeting center.  

Last I checked, Miami was ranked nowhere near Orlando in these categories and never will be, I might add, (save the cruise port), but I love Miami nonetheless.  No, Orlando is not in Miami's league...

Miami is number 3 in this country for international tourist a year behind Ny and L.A. so its a matter of perpective.

[prahaboheme]

KendallKid, on Feb 19 2006, 09:02 PM, said:

No you cant go to the zoo in orlando.

You are correct, you cannot go to a Miami zoo in Orlando, but Animal Kingdom is a zoo, and there is SeaWorld and Discovery Cove.  The Sanford Zoo is just North of Orlando and there is the bird sanctuary at Lake Toho in Kissimmee.

Edited by prahaboheme, 19 February 2006 - 08:32 PM.

[JRS1]

Look, I don't want to get into an infighting Miami-bashing thing here while the world watches us; its like punching myself in the arm.

But, I will say this, Sanford has the Central Florida Zoo, for the last 30 or so years, such as it is.  And, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't Paris Hilton's first club opening in Florida on Church St.?

Speaking of internationals, Orlando is also home to 45-50,000 Brits.  If Miami is No. 3 in international tourists, Orlando isn't far behind.

Noone is knocking Miami.  We all know about Metrozoo and the Seaquarium.  But just b/c you pay a ticket to go to Sea World  and Animal Kingdom doesn't change the fact that they offer more than Miami's or most any other city's comparable zoo and aquarium.

If Orlando sux so much, why was Hilary Clinton and W in town this weekend?  Not that they aren't visiting other cities.

Atlanta vs. Miami:  Miami metro is larger, has more money, way more malls, has 3 ports, large airport cargo terminal, cruise ports, as wide-expressways; Metrorail, Tri-rail, Metromover, and a building boom that Atlanta will never see or be able to equal not on this Earth or in any other reality.

But Atlanta is a larger convention city with GWCC, has Hartsfield Intl., MARTA, Buckhead, hosted the Olympics, has Home Depot, lost a Ford plant this month, though; has Ga Tech and UGA nearby, and taller bldgs downtown (for now or untill EWT gets built)...

I've lived in Atlanta and I loved it.  But even Orlando beats out Atlanta with the categories I listed before- except for Hartfield--funny, if you take away Delta's connecting flights, OIA is neck and neck with Atlanta for O&D flights, and Atlanta is 2.5 times the size of Orlando.

Miami beats out Atlanta because of the geography, the water, the growing skyline, and b/c of the Hialeah Wal-Mart(busiest in US) I would frequent from Miami Lakes whenever I would visit my ex-GF.

[JRS1]

Oh, I missed one: world class restaurants-- please...  Does Miami have Emiril's?  How about Morton's?  Orlando, as of the late nineties, had the most restaurants per capita than any other city in the US.  And there are many award winning eateries here.  We've also got 2 Ruth's Chris and their headquarters; we're home to Darden restaurants and have the new Seasons 52 chain; a few Charley's Steakhouse's, a ritzier restaurants at the top of the Wyndham, BOA, in the Peabody, Grand Floridian, etc...

Miami's got the clubs, I don't disagree.

[JRS1]

Oh, the sports teams issue-- well, for a Palm Beach Gardens resident to watch the Heat, he has to travel 70 miles.  So, an Orlando resident can travel the same distance to Tampa to watch the Lightning or Bucs play- and vice versa.  I-4 is being widened between the two cities right now and I-4 is already like I-95 between Richmond and Arlington, VA.

[KendallKid]

KendallKid, on Feb 9 2006, 11:22 PM, said:

Might i suggest that is going to be one of those posts where we all fight. Perhaps we shouldnt respond so much... just a thought.

I should have taken my own advice.   My point was in miami u have city zoo's without benefit of Disney. And Emeril's is a chain not a trendy restaurant. Like say Joe's Stone Crab(which i personally hate but u get it) Additionally i never said Anything about being in the same leauge or anything. That was someone else. What I said was true. As far as Club Paris is conerned she does not own it, she sells her name to Franchisees who use it for thier clubs and while we r on that topic Paris often goes to Pawn Shop in Downtown Miami which does not bare her name.  I just wrote what I wrote in response too what you said, And i knew this would escalate into a "im better than you are." Honeslty who cares, people from Orlando live there because they like it and have made that choice People in Miami live their for w/e reason they chose to, can we please drop it like i cautioned on Feb 9, 2006 and 11:22 PM and if not I will.

[JRS1]

KendallKid, on Feb 19 2006, 10:31 PM, said:

I should have taken my own advice.   My point was in miami u have city zoo's without benefit of Disney. And Emeril's is a chain not a trendy restaurant. Like say Joe's Stone Crab(which i personally hate but u get it) Additionally i never said Anything about being in the same leauge or anything. That was someone else. What I said was true. As far as Club Paris is conerned she does not own it, she sells her name to Franchisees who use it for thier clubs and while we r on that topic Paris often goes to Pawn Shop in Downtown Miami which does not bare her name.  I just wrote what I wrote in response too what you said, And i knew this would escalate into a "im better than you are." Honeslty who cares, people from Orlando live there because they like it and have made that choice People in Miami live their for w/e reason they chose to, can we please drop it like i cautioned on Feb 9, 2006 and 11:22 PM and if not I will.

???

Well, if you look at MY previous posts, I was the one making the case for, and not against Miami-- which is what this thread is about.  But to make the case for Miami, there's no harm in bringing to light its strong points and weaknesses when compared to other Fla. cities, since the topic is "most impressive Fla. city."

We need to flush some things out now:

You need to take a chill pill, b/c your Feb 9 post was in response to nothing more than people trying to establish the parameters of "impressive", and if that offended you enough to write your "escalate" warning, at that point, then you are way too sensitive to partake in discussions for fear of reading something you might not like.  Its called a discussion, and reading facts that don't necessarily cater to your liking is a fact of life.  

You need to go to an Emiril's or talk to someone whose been to one.  Since that's not good enough of an example, which goes against logic, add Flemings, Houston's, Brio, Antonio's, and McCormick & Schmick to the list, along with a couple of Cheesecake Factories, Wolfgang Puck, and the touristy Rainforest Cafe (2) which Miami also has, along with Blue Martini, Hue, Sam Snead's, U-Club, Citrus Club, and a host of urban cafe's (Dexter's, etc.) popping up in Thornton Park, Winter Park, and College Park.

What Paris Hilton's patronage of a Miami pawnshop has to do with her opening a club in Orlando is beyond me.  Its no secret Paris Hilton is a serious Miami Beach party girl.

And here's my final comment on this whole "my thing/your thing" BS; Just b/c Miami is the most urbanized and developed metro in Fla. does not mean that there is nothing of equal value elsewhere in the state.  

For example, in Orlando:
We've got Bloomingdales, Saks, Nordstrom, Neiman's, Macy's (before the buyout), still have Lord & Taylor; Ritz Carlton, JW, Wyndham, etc... just like Miami.  We've also got Gaylord Palms & CC.  We've got ritzy neighborhoods like Alaqua, Isleworth, and Lake Nona, and new modern PUDs like Avalon Park, Celebration, Baldwin Park, ChampionsGate, Reunion Resort, Independence, Stoneybrook West, etc...; We've got suburban office parks and industrial parks and 3 major universities in the metro with 2 law schools; we're a major distribution center for the state for Lowe's and Walgreens, etc... we've got major urban renewal and condo construction in places other than downtown and the attractions area, which is a tougher sell than a condo on any beach; we've got road widening going on continuously, and new major urban infill proposals which are steadily coming to fruition...  there's alot going on here aside from Disney.

And like I said earlier, Orlando, for its size, has a lot to offer compared to larger cities.  nothing more, nothing less.

Do I think its Florida's most impressive city? No.  B/c to me, bigger is better.

peace.

[cameronm]

JRS1, on Feb 20 2006, 11:22 AM, said:

???

Well, if you look at MY previous posts, I was the one making the case for, and not against Miami-- which is what this thread is about.  But to make the case for Miami, there's no harm in bringing to light its strong points and weaknesses when compared to other Fla. cities, since the topic is "most impressive Fla. city."

We need to flush some things out now:

You need to take a chill pill, b/c your Feb 9 post was in response to nothing more than people trying to establish the parameters of "impressive", and if that offended you enough to write your "escalate" warning, at that point, then you are way too sensitive to partake in discussions for fear of reading something you might not like.  Its called a discussion, and reading facts that don't necessarily cater to your liking is a fact of life.  

You need to go to an Emiril's or talk to someone whose been to one.  Since that's not good enough of an example, which goes against logic, add Flemings, Houston's, Brio, Antonio's, and McCormick & Schmick to the list, along with a couple of Cheesecake Factories, Wolfgang Puck, and the touristy Rainforest Cafe (2) which Miami also has, along with Blue Martini, Hue, Sam Snead's, U-Club, Citrus Club, and a host of urban cafe's (Dexter's, etc.) popping up in Thornton Park, Winter Park, and College Park.

What Paris Hilton's patronage of a Miami pawnshop has to do with her opening a club in Orlando is beyond me.  Its no secret Paris Hilton is a serious Miami Beach party girl.

And here's my final comment on this whole "my thing/your thing" BS; Just b/c Miami is the most urbanized and developed metro in Fla. does not mean that there is nothing of equal value elsewhere in the state.  

For example, in Orlando:
We've got Bloomingdales, Saks, Nordstrom, Neiman's, Macy's (before the buyout), still have Lord & Taylor; Ritz Carlton, JW, Wyndham, etc... just like Miami.  We've also got Gaylord Palms & CC.  We've got ritzy neighborhoods like Alaqua, Isleworth, and Lake Nona, and new modern PUDs like Avalon Park, Celebration, Baldwin Park, ChampionsGate, Reunion Resort, Independence, Stoneybrook West, etc...; We've got suburban office parks and industrial parks and 3 major universities in the metro with 2 law schools; we're a major distribution center for the state for Lowe's and Walgreens, etc... we've got major urban renewal and condo construction in places other than downtown and the attractions area, which is a tougher sell than a condo on any beach; we've got road widening going on continuously, and new major urban infill proposals which are steadily coming to fruition...  there's alot going on here aside from Disney.

And like I said earlier, Orlando, for its size, has a lot to offer compared to larger cities.  nothing more, nothing less.

Do I think its Florida's most impressive city? No.  B/c to me, bigger is better.

peace.

Great post

[orlandonative]

JRS1, on Feb 20 2006, 11:22 AM, said:

???

Well, if you look at MY previous posts, I was the one making the case for, and not against Miami-- which is what this thread is about.  But to make the case for Miami, there's no harm in bringing to light its strong points and weaknesses when compared to other Fla. cities, since the topic is "most impressive Fla. city."

We need to flush some things out now:

You need to take a chill pill, b/c your Feb 9 post was in response to nothing more than people trying to establish the parameters of "impressive", and if that offended you enough to write your "escalate" warning, at that point, then you are way too sensitive to partake in discussions for fear of reading something you might not like.  Its called a discussion, and reading facts that don't necessarily cater to your liking is a fact of life.  

You need to go to an Emiril's or talk to someone whose been to one.  Since that's not good enough of an example, which goes against logic, add Flemings, Houston's, Brio, Antonio's, and McCormick & Schmick to the list, along with a couple of Cheesecake Factories, Wolfgang Puck, and the touristy Rainforest Cafe (2) which Miami also has, along with Blue Martini, Hue, Sam Snead's, U-Club, Citrus Club, and a host of urban cafe's (Dexter's, etc.) popping up in Thornton Park, Winter Park, and College Park.

What Paris Hilton's patronage of a Miami pawnshop has to do with her opening a club in Orlando is beyond me.  Its no secret Paris Hilton is a serious Miami Beach party girl.

And here's my final comment on this whole "my thing/your thing" BS; Just b/c Miami is the most urbanized and developed metro in Fla. does not mean that there is nothing of equal value elsewhere in the state.  

For example, in Orlando:
We've got Bloomingdales, Saks, Nordstrom, Neiman's, Macy's (before the buyout), still have Lord & Taylor; Ritz Carlton, JW, Wyndham, etc... just like Miami.  We've also got Gaylord Palms & CC.  We've got ritzy neighborhoods like Alaqua, Isleworth, and Lake Nona, and new modern PUDs like Avalon Park, Celebration, Baldwin Park, ChampionsGate, Reunion Resort, Independence, Stoneybrook West, etc...; We've got suburban office parks and industrial parks and 3 major universities in the metro with 2 law schools; we're a major distribution center for the state for Lowe's and Walgreens, etc... we've got major urban renewal and condo construction in places other than downtown and the attractions area, which is a tougher sell than a condo on any beach; we've got road widening going on continuously, and new major urban infill proposals which are steadily coming to fruition...  there's alot going on here aside from Disney.

And like I said earlier, Orlando, for its size, has a lot to offer compared to larger cities.  nothing more, nothing less.

Do I think its Florida's most impressive city? No.  B/c to me, bigger is better.

peace.

Done and done.  

[poonther]

For me it's an intangible thing about Miami and South FL.  You can list and list and list things about both cities (ORL, MIA) but South Florida just has a more Cosmopolitan feel about it from Palm Beach Gardens all the way down to South Dade.  Maybe it's that the people are linked more to Latin America, Europe and the Northeast...but to me it's undeniably more cosmopolitan and that has nothing to do w/size either.  The same could be said for Santa Fe which is ten times smaller than Albuquerque, but is ten times more cosmo.

This feeling and vibe is subjective, but I never get it when I'm at The Mall at Millenia, DT Orlando or say Park Avenue, but I do get it at Town Centre, Aventura, Las Olas, DT Miami, Bal Harbour etc etc.  I also don't get that feeling in ATL either, but the reasons why are a whole other topic.

Here's a small example:  When you guys list all the things ORL has like Bloomies, these places...well actually in this case...THE place....feels more like an attraction in ORL like "wow lookie there, it's a fancy Bloomies.  Let's go in and say we've been in one."  Yes, I think those are more of the small town tourist type, but none-the-less the vibe is there.  Whereas in MIA/South FL the Bloomies are just a place to shop and buy clothes and nothing to get excited about.

That is the difference to me and I mean no disrepect to ORL people.  And as always YMMV (your mileage my vary.)

P.S.  I have lived in both metros and still visit each of them frequently b/c of relatives in both areas and my job.

Question:  Of those of you posting on this thread, how many of you have LIVED in both metros as opposed to just the one you live in now and are supporting?

Edited by poonther, 20 February 2006 - 12:31 PM.

[simms3]

This post is exactly why I don't frequent UP any more.  This is how low it's gone.  Nobody discusses important issues any more, but everyone sure jumps on the bandwagon to bash eachother and come up with some lame thread titled "will miami always be the most impressive city in in Fl".

[Go Gators]

simms3, on Feb 20 2006, 04:21 PM, said:

This post is exactly why I don't frequent UP any more.  This is how low it's gone.  Nobody discusses important issues any more, but everyone sure jumps on the bandwagon to bash eachother and come up with some lame thread titled "will miami always be the most impressive city in in Fl".

yet you felt you needed to respond to it!

[JRS1]

Noone's bashing anybody here, we're just analyzing the topic which is based on so many factors.
--------
Now, back to the topic.

I agree that Miami is more cosmopolitan than Orlando.  But what makes a city more cosmopolitan than another?  Diversity in culture coupled with size and exposure?  If yes, then yes, Miami is more cosmo.  

Lets not forget that Orlando has the largest Puerto Rican population in Florida, and is Banco Popular's Florida HQ.  60,000+ move to Central Fla. annually, and they're mostly from up north.  Orlando also has a "Little Vietnam" district, and is home to the 45-50,000 Brits I mentioned earlier.  Orlando has also been home to the likes of Tiger Woods and other pros, Carrot Top, other actors,  and has had establishments endorsed and/or owned by Ken Griffey, Jr., and Andre Rison; and is home to Lou Pearlman's Intercontinental, which started the likes of the boy bands of the last decade and current stars like Mandy Moore and Nick's little brother, etc...  and has had studio and production work done in house at MGM and Nickelodeon since 1990.  

Regarding Miami and the cosmo feel, I personally don't get that feeling when I'm in Aventura.  South Beach and Bal Harbor and Brickell, yes.  That's why Sobe is my favorite beach in the state.  Miami is more visibly cosmopolitan b/c Miami-Dade is mostly Latin.  But, Hialeah doesn't give me that cosmo feel either, and its totally Latin.  Miami-Dade feels way more cosmo than Broward to the north and PB Co. even further north, b/c those counties are more white.  Las Olas is cosmo, but Broward Blvd. isn't.  

THere's just a lot of established villages and townships in Miami-Dade which carry the rest of the region making it more desireable.  Its that way with all major cities:  There's pockets of paradise among all the crap (the crap being Carol City, Liberty City, Opa Locka, parts of Hialeah, west Broward (before Plantation), believe it or not, many parts of West Palm Beach, especially where the PB Mall is, and other parts I can't remember right now.  Even Sunny Isles was a beach slum and is undergoing a transition, as is Hallandale and Hollywood Beach.

And Orlando is no stranger to slums either, believe me.

Regarding the Bloomie's example; Saks has been here for a decade and the rest have been here for almost 5 years.  The novelty of those stores wore off after the first year, and everyone I know shops at Gucci or Bloomie's or Macy's or Neiman's b/c there's stuff that they want that those stores sell; no different than Miami folk.  That's my point.  Its business as usual in retail up here just like in SoFla.  Same goes for the Ferrari/Mazerati dealership in Winter Park:  its been here for at least 8 years that I know of; its not a big deal anymore- not that it ever was.


Miami is just Miami, period.  Its an exciting place to be.

[poonther]

Good post and points there JRS1.  Like I said and you too, it's all subjective, very subjective.

We definitely don't always agree, but you're always polite about it and I've never seen you bash IMO.

But the big question is:  can you defend the Appliance Direct and that KISS-A-MEE used car dealer commercials that run all hours of the night in your market?  Boy those two advertisement/infomercials are awful and make me run from the room screaming!  

Just a quick personal question if you don't mind....how old are you and how long have you lived in ORL?  Just asking cause you do know your O-town.  

I use to work for the East Central Florida Regional Planning Council, so I'm pretty familiar w/the area too, but you're much better bud.

[bobdreamz]

poonther....I moved from Miami to Orlando 5 months ago and the differences are night & day to me. I love downtown Orlando but the rest of the metro is so suburban in nature that I'm having trouble adjusting here since you have to drive everywhere. Like i said this is subjective but i like Miami's density more...it does have a vibe that isn't replicated here in Orlando....and I will say this but there is something about living here that feels fake to me....please I'm not trying to start a war...these are my personal opinions & I hope you guys can respect them.

[prahaboheme]

South Beach is the only true urban hood in the state of Florida, even the rest of the Miami metro has dismal urbanity despite its density and size.

[JRS1]

Well, the positive spin to the Appliance Direct guy is that he's Asian!  Except for his hick partner who really irkes me.  The used car dealer-- I think, is the Family Auto Mart guy from Melbourne, but they recently opened shop in Orlando.  I can't defend him any more than I can the Sanford Flea Market.  But, Miami's got flea markets too (Opa Locka and others).

Yeah, Orlando is no stranger to hick-dom, but like the northerners who claim this state is nothing but hicks, I've been to Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Pennsylvania, and upstate New York, and I can assure you and them that the hicks in Florida pale in comparison to whats up north.  

Miami is a Florida town first.  There are Dade County rednecks, believe it or not, but you never see them on I-95 or the turnpike heading into Miami.  THey are strategically out of the way in the backwaters.

I've been in Orlando since 1997 and grew up in Daytona- but I'm from up north (Chi-town).

At the end of the day, Miami is just like every other Florida city; its got its share of Wal-Marts, Goodwill's, Salvation Army outlets, and pawn shops.  It also has its share of NIMBY's.  But its also got the good stuff, which makes it fabulous.

Orlando has turned the corner and has become relevant beyond Disney.  But many forget that Orlando was heavily engrossed in the defense industry and still is before Disney ever came to the scene.  Also, Embry Riddle Aeronautical U. moved to nearby Daytona decades ago from Miami, and is the Harvard of the skies.

In fact, Daytona has ERAU, Bethune Cookman, NASCAR HQ, LPGA HQ, and Hawaiian Tropic HQ.  A lot of people don't know that-- and Daytona is relegated to being nothing more than a redneck, biker, defunct spring break town.





... and was the home to John Travolta at the Spruce Creek fly-in until this past year when the neighborhood association made him leave b/c of his lear jet.

[depechecureguyorl]

Orlando native here and have lived here practically my whole life. My dad was in the Navy when I was a kid, so we did move around a lot until settling back in Orlando. I grew up going to Disney, so Orlando "after Disney" is the only Orlando I know. But, I DO know my history, and JRS1 is correct (I'm surprised he knows so much since only being here since '97...good one!). Orlando lacks downtown height & population density mainly because it wasn't an important industrial/commercial city before the 90's. Jax, IMO, is the only example of a "Northernesque" city in Florida, because it was the ONLY major city in Florida for a long while...Tampa was a close second.

Miami, IMO, was impressive when I first visited (have since been countless times) but now, it's just another Florida city. Yeah, it has skyscrapers, but after the day is over, they're still just buildings. Orlando & Miami are as different as night & day; politically, culturally, and economically. The fact that Orlando DOESN'T look like Miami is just fine for me. I'd prefer Orlando keeping it's own identity. I love visiting Miami, but I just wouldn't want to live there. There is nothing wrong w/Miami, but Orlando is home and probably always will be. Whether or not we become "International", "First/Second Teir", "Cosmopolitan", etc. truly rests in the opinion of others.

[poonther]

Hey gang this is a great thread and it's cool that everyone has been so polite in their posting.  I've learned a lot about both cities since I started reading this thread, which is the main reason why I come here...to learn.  It seems to me that no matter how great our arguments are for or against a place, most of us will come here w/one idea about these two great cities and we also leave w/those same ideas....so no one's mind is being changed, but again..we are learning different facts....and that is the most important thing.  Mainly,  I am just glad to find a place and people that can talk about these kind of things in an intelligent, interesting and passionate manner, that to me is the best thing of all.  Thanks!