18 replies to this topic

[PVDJack]

See the sidebar in the latest edition of the RI Smart Growth newsletter:


http://www.growsmart...bruary2006.html

I hadn't previously heard of this project, but I recently drove around the Paramount Cards complex and was dumbfounded by how huge it is -- a true shame that it won't be renovated.

Edited by PVDJack, 15 February 2006 - 11:08 AM.

[JimmyGreaves]

PVDJack, on Feb 15 2006, 12:08 PM, said:

See the sidebar in the latest edition of the RI Smart Growth newsletter:
http://www.growsmart...bruary2006.html

I hadn't previously heard of this project, but I recently drove around the Paramount Cards complex and was dumbfounded by how huge it is -- a true shame that it won't be renovated.

http://www.projo.com...5x.2bfa4fb.html
Carcieri is evidently wary of absorbing over $100 million of tax credits in the next 2 years in lieu of a looming budget deficit and proposed tax cuts.  What the article doesn't talk about is the tax revenue benefit to Rhode Island by having these credits.  A study by a Maryland Real Estate Consulting firm estimated the that the credit generated $795 million in economic activity vs the state's expense through 2004 of $145 million ("Historic tax credit helps R.I. economy", Projo 4/8/05).  Gordon Fox is even quoted in the Projo article as saying it's a "grand slam".  Seems like a shortsighted move to me if they're thinking of rolling this tax credit back.

[eltron]

JimmyGreaves, on Feb 15 2006, 12:46 PM, said:

http://www.projo.com...5x.2bfa4fb.html
Carcieri is evidently wary of absorbing over $100 million of tax credits in the next 2 years in lieu of a looming budget deficit and proposed tax cuts.  What the article doesn't talk about is the tax revenue benefit to Rhode Island by having these credits.  A study by a Maryland Real Estate Consulting firm estimated the that the credit generated $795 million in economic activity vs the state's expense through 2004 of $145 million ("Historic tax credit helps R.I. economy", Projo 4/8/05).  Gordon Fox is even quoted in the Projo article as saying it's a "grand slam".  Seems like a shortsighted move to me if they're thinking of rolling this tax credit back.

I've said it before - the loss of the state historic tax credit would be a GIGANTIC blow to the progress of this state. If there was ever a reason to call or write you state legislator and the governor, THIS IS IT.

[JimmyGreaves]

eltron, on Feb 15 2006, 01:01 PM, said:

I've said it before - the loss of the state historic tax credit would be a GIGANTIC blow to the progress of this state. If there was ever a reason to call or write you state legislator and the governor, THIS IS IT.

After the historic tax credit program was changed to raise the filing fee in order to balance the budget this past year, I e-mailed the leadership of the House and Grow Smart RI to express my concerns but got no response.  Of course, I could have been the only one writing which would not elicit a response the way a more coordinated effort would obtain.

[gregw]

That is very, very disappointing. I hope it doesn't portend more cancellations.

Hopefully, supporters of the Tax Credit will now have extra ammunition to make their case to the General Assembly.

One thing that I don't understand (maybe someone can clear this up for me) is why state legislators see the tax credit as costing revenue when these projects would almost certainly not happen without it. Is the state fiscally better off with scores of deteriorating empty mill buildings than with the Tax Credit?

[jencoleslaw]

gregw, on Feb 15 2006, 01:22 PM, said:

That is very, very disappointing. I hope it doesn't portend more cancellations.

Hopefully, supporters of the Tax Credit will now have extra ammunition to make their case to the General Assembly.

One thing that I don't understand (maybe someone can clear this up for me) is why state legislators see the tax credit as costing revenue when these projects would almost certainly not happen without it. Is the state fiscally better off with scores of deteriorating empty mill buildings than with the Tax Credit?

of course, because it means that all these "blights" can be demo-ed and paved over for parking lots, or walmarts.

[gregw]

jencoleslaw, on Feb 15 2006, 05:27 PM, said:

of course, because it means that all these "blights" can be demo-ed and paved over for parking lots, or walmarts.

I'm hoping that a few more Providence mill conversion projects will happen before the Gen Assembly kills the Tax credit program. Jencoleslaw or anyone, do you know anything about the status of the following?

1. The vacant Foundry bldg next to 95. I saw in the RIEDC list that rehabilitation was in the works but haven't heard any announcements.

2.  The GE plant on Atwells across from Eagle sq. Seems like a great candidate for rehabilitation but I haven't heard anything.

3. The Struever project for US Rubber/American Locomotive on Valley St. This was announced a while back (over 2 million sq. ft.) but it's not listed anymore on SBER's website.

[jencoleslaw]

gregw, on Feb 16 2006, 07:02 AM, said:

I'm hoping that a few more Providence mill conversion projects will happen before the Gen Assembly kills the Tax credit program. Jencoleslaw or anyone, do you know anything about the status of the following?

1. The vacant Foundry bldg next to 95. I saw in the RIEDC list that rehabilitation was in the works but haven't heard any announcements.

2.  The GE plant on Atwells across from Eagle sq. Seems like a great candidate for rehabilitation but I haven't heard anything.

3. The Struever project for US Rubber/American Locomotive on Valley St. This was announced a while back (over 2 million sq. ft.) but it's not listed anymore on SBER's website.

there have been many attempts to do something with the GE plant and they refuse to sell, so i don't know what will ever happen there, but that is a sweet spot for something. Like a park!

I happened to be in a position yesterday to be thumbing through some old comprehensive plans from 50+ years ago, and even then the city recognized that neighborhoods like Federal Hill lack important green space and play space. I wonder when we're gonna get around to doing something about that...Seems to me that with all this development, and variances on heights and parking and density and landscaping and setback etc, we should be able to get developers to give back a little something... Probably a post for a different thread. sorry.

[gregw]

http://www.hayessher...0Properties.pdf

[gregw]

Great news! This project has apparently come back to life.

From the Projo:

"But Urban Smart Growth isn’t stopping there.

About a week ago, the company agreed to buy the former Paramount Card company building on Pine Street out of receivership, along with an adjoining building, Wierks said.

A mixed-use project similar to Hope Artiste Village is planned there. Wierks said the impetus is being provided by the city’s plans to restore commuter rail service to the Pawtucket-Central Falls train station, which is on Broad Street, about 200 yards away."

http://www.projo.com...IN.30c5f40.html

The article doesn't mention that the fact that the General Assembly decided not to mess with the Historic Tax Credit must have made this project feasible.

[foxpointer]

Greg, they did not mess with it THIS YEAR, despite many attempts to do so.  Sen. Alves of W. Warwick submitted legislation to reduce the tax credit to 20%, and this was one of his more benign efforts.  A state buyback program promulgated by Rep. Segal did pass, however. This does not mean the tax credit is safe by any means.  A 'blue ribbon' panel will convene in the fall to investigate ways to alter the tax credit.  Luckily, it will not just be tin-eared legislators at the table; other stakeholders will have a voice.

The real issue is that the preservation/smart growth/development community has to fight EVERY YEAR to protect the historic preservation investment tax credit.  If this is an investment, as the formal name of the program insists, why does the Assembly keep attempting to tinker with it, cap it, reduce it, or kill it off?  This is no way to incentivize investment in redevelopment in Rhode Island, because the climate for investment is constantly under thereat.  I think this is symptomatic of the larger structural issues the State faces and the inability of the State to develop a formal policy for economic development, or at least one that has a life longer than our annual political cycle.  

Simply put, if the tax credit get messed with next year, we can forget about Paramount Cards, among other projects.  USG has stated quite bluntly that they are in RI because of the tax credit, and if it were to be altered in some substantial way, they would pull out their resources.

[foxpointer]

jencoleslaw, on Feb 16 2006, 10:44 AM, said:

there have been many attempts to do something with the GE plant and they refuse to sell, so i don't know what will ever happen there, but that is a sweet spot for something. Like a park!

OK... lots of activity at the GE site recently... There is now a security guard posted 24/7 on the Harris Ave. side and lots of trees have come down.  Last week I saw what looked to be movers brining out old office furniture.  Also, an environmental firm was out there doing groundwater testing.  Something is afoot.

[frymasterspeck]

foxpointer, on Jul 1 2007, 09:48 AM, said:

A 'blue ribbon' panel will convene in the fall to investigate ways to alter the tax credit.  Luckily, it will not just be tin-eared legislators at the table; other stakeholders will have a voice.

All right, I'll step in it. It's my way.

As background, check out this post on my blog and follow the links to the CEOs for Cities blog that includes coverage of a meeting that may or may not have included the blue ribbon type people to whom FP referred.

The CfC blog does not include the part of the discussion that I think is relevant here, which is this: all-residential mill conversions are inherently profitable, and politicians pay a price for tax breaks that have the appearance of lining the pockets of the already wealthy. Further, all-residential developments don't produce the kind of synergistic economic expansion that creates the sought-after "whole place." They become ghettos. Finally, some say these breaks have gone to some of the worst actors on the development scene, and that has left a bad taste in some peoples' mouths.

The talk I heard was about focusing the tax credit on mixed-use and jobs-only development. So USG would have nothing to worry about, seeing as how they stress mixed-use and community and so forth.

I guess my main question is this: is there any scenario in which historic preservation is not the driving concern?

[eltron]

frymasterspeck, on Jul 3 2007, 03:46 PM, said:

All right, I'll step in it. It's my way.

As background, check out this post on my blog and follow the links to the CEOs for Cities blog that includes coverage of a meeting that may or may not have included the blue ribbon type people to whom FP referred.

The CfC blog does not include the part of the discussion that I think is relevant here, which is this: all-residential mill conversions are inherently profitable, and politicians pay a price for tax breaks that have the appearance of lining the pockets of the already wealthy. Further, all-residential developments don't produce the kind of synergistic economic expansion that creates the sought-after "whole place." They become ghettos. Finally, some say these breaks have gone to some of the worst actors on the development scene, and that has left a bad taste in some peoples' mouths.

The talk I heard was about focusing the tax credit on mixed-use and jobs-only development. So USG would have nothing to worry about, seeing as how they stress mixed-use and community and so forth.

I guess my main question is this: is there any scenario in which historic preservation is not the driving concern?

John,

I gotta disagree - while its always desirable to have a diverse mix of uses in any city or neighborhood, there are many many buildings that are more suitable for one or the other. Likewise, while economic development and job creation is important, there are plenty of cases where a straight residential project if perfectly appropriate.

I happen to the think what downtown Pawtucket needs is MORE residents...for the core of the city to really be vibrant again, it needs people on the street at all times of the day, not just 9-5. Yeah, jobs, offices, and retail will help get there, but PEOPLE are the real thing thats gonna make it happen (and yes, ALL types of people, not just the specific brand you allude to elsewhere).

Edited by eltron, 06 July 2007 - 01:39 PM.

[gregw]

This has come back to life but even bigger than before. The project is called the Thread Factory. Amazing when you consider the uncertainty over the Historic Tax Credit. From the USG website:


The former largest thread factory complex in the world (Conant and Coates and Clark mills) just two miles north of Hope Artiste Village, is USG’s most recent acquisition. Consisting of 7 buildings with a total of over 1,000,000 square feet of buildings, USG  intends to duplicate the successful formula of Hope Village, by beginning to fill this vast space with artisan manufacturing, live/work artist lofts and specialized retail. The efforts of Pawtucket to obtain a train station to Boston and points south appear to be bearing fruit, and the addition will afford residents the ability to walk to the train to major employment centers from the Factory. As shown in adjacent renderings, we are designing a village destination on the 17 acre site, and are offering immediate occupancy for industrial users, large and small, with moderately priced mixed use live/work lofts available by 2009.

Edited by gregw, 17 March 2008 - 12:05 PM.

[Cotuit]

Quote

The efforts of Pawtucket to obtain a train station to Boston and points south appear to be bearing fruit

They do? Is there something I do not know about this?

[frymasterspeck]

Cotuit, on Mar 17 2008, 01:37 PM, said:

They do? Is there something I do not know about this?

Nothing of which I'm aware. My contact is taking a new job in the midwest this spring, so I'll chat him up before he leaves.

Last I heard, they were trying to get Congressional $ to study where/how to add the 3rd line. Existing site is curved and narrow and difficult. Alternative site (where trash-fer station is trying to go) already has, like, infinity train tracks.

This convo is a few months old.

[Frankie811]

Cotuit, on Mar 17 2008, 02:37 PM, said:

They do? Is there something I do not know about this?

I did read something about this in the Pawtucket Times, but I couldn't bring it up online, after endless tries.  

[dialectric]

foxpointer, on Jul 3 2007, 06:08 AM, said:

OK... lots of activity at the GE site recently... There is now a security guard posted 24/7 on the Harris Ave. side and lots of trees have come down.  Last week I saw what looked to be movers brining out old office furniture.  Also, an environmental firm was out there doing groundwater testing.  Something is afoot.

Not sure if this is the right thread, but the GE Site now appears to be for sale, albeit with no listed price. There have been several posts suggesting that GE would never sell, so I wonder what has changed. In any case, rennovating the site would be a massive undertaking. From the Hayes & Sherry site:

"GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPANY ("GE") HAS RETAINED CUSHMAN & WAKEFIELD ("C&W") IN CONJUNCTION WITH  
HAYES & SHERRY ("H&S") AS ITS EXCLUSIVE AGENT IN THE DISPOSITION OF ITS FEE OWNERSHIP INTEREST IN A THREE STORY
240,000 SQUARE FOOT BRICK MANUFACTURING BUILDING SITUATED ON 7.0 ACRES OF LAND WITH 330' OF FRONTAGE ON
ATWELLS AVENUE AND 700' ON HARRIS AVENUE.