153 replies to this topic

[Tennesseestorm]

Call me crazy, but I am a tree "nut".

I am wondering - who has cabbage palm trees in their city?  If you live in Florida, southern MS, AL, GA, SC (eastern), or coastal NC and southeastern VA- then I know the answer is yes, but I am referring to areas north and west of those areas.  I am trying to figure just how far north and inland that the "cabbage palm" tree grows.  There are tree websites that show where certain species of trees grow, but trees are known to grow in areas they are not typically supposed to.

I know that some plam trees grow as far north as the coast of southeastern Virginia, but I am not sure what species they are - I am not certain that these are cabbage palmettos, but they look like it.  There is supposed to be a certain species that will grow in temperatures as cold as -10*.  The palm I am referring to is called the "Needle palm and scrub palm" - reported to grow as far north as Washington DC, but I am really not referring to that palm tree.  Here is a link to the hardy palm trees:
http://members.aol.c...alms/index.html


The tree I am referring to is the "Cabbage Palm" - It is the same tree that is the South Carolina state tree.  http://hort.ifas.ufl...ees/SABPALA.pdf - this is the tree I would like to know if it grows in your city.
Actually- here is a link to the South Carolina state tree:
http://www.50states....uthcarolina.htm

I have heard that these cabbage palmetto trees grow as far north and inland as Columbia, SC - can anyone verify this?  If they do- then how about Atlanta, Dallas or Birmingham?  Any "cabbage" palmetto trees in those cities?  If they grow there, then they definitely do in Columbia, since Columbia is typically a warmer city and a lot lower in elevation.

Thanks!

Edited by Tennesseestorm, 03 March 2006 - 11:17 PM.

[sonofaque86]

I don't think I've even seen a cabbage palmetto tree in Columbia...I think I've seen them near Orangeburg which is about 30 minutes to the south

[Tennesseestorm]

Thanks for the fast reply.  Columbia was really a city I was wanting to know about.  I saw a photo once of what was supposed to be Columbia and I thought I saw a palm tree, but I was not certain - so I wanted to clarify.  If they do not grow in Columbia, then I am sure they do not in Atlanta- since they are just as far north, not to mention- about 800 ft. higher in elevation than Columbia.  

Thanks again!  

sonofaque86, on Mar 4 2006, 12:38 AM, said:

I don't think I've even seen a cabbage palmetto tree in Columbia...I think I've seen them near Orangeburg which is about 30 minutes to the south

[sonofaque86]

Oh yeah, I think Columbia's elevation is around 300ft or somewhere around that...They import the Palm Trees to Columbia.

Edited by sonofaque86, 03 March 2006 - 11:51 PM.

[The_sandlapper]

Actully, shrub palmetto trees grow naturally in the Congaree National Swamp south of the city in Richland county. There are several planted Palmetto trees that thrive throughout the city. here are a few shots of pics I've taken around Columbia.

Edited by The_sandlapper, 04 March 2006 - 01:26 AM.

[sonofaque86]

I knew they grew South of the city....I've never been to the Congaree swamp though but they would grow around there. but they do well here when planted like sandlapper said

[Tennesseestorm]

Ahha!  Thanks for posting those terrific photos!  So, that was a palm tree that I saw in that other photo of Columbia.  

Now, it would be interesting just how far north and west they are in South Carolina.  I have been to Easley (upstate), but I do not think they survive that far north?  

Now, since I know they grow well in Columbia - would be intersting to know if any are in Birmingham, Atlanta or Dallas.  

Thanks again!

[DruidCity]

Yes. In Alabama, the farthest north I've seen thriving cabbage palms are roughly along the I-20 corridor :
Tuscaloosa-Birmingham-Anniston. There is a nice little palm display garden in Anniston, too.
I've seen 'em in Atlanta, too (which is connected to the above areas via I-20).
Far to my west, but still on I-20, Dallas can indeed grow palmetto trees: http://dallaspalms.com/

In addition to Sabal palmetto, jelly palms (Butia) and especially windmill palms (Trachycarpus) are occasionally seen in landscapes in the above cities.

[The_sandlapper]

Tennesseestorm, on Mar 4 2006, 08:57 AM, said:

Ahha!  Thanks for posting those terrific photos!  So, that was a palm tree that I saw in that other photo of Columbia.  

Now, it would be interesting just how far north and west they are in South Carolina.  I have been to Easley (upstate), but I do not think they survive that far north?  

Now, since I know they grow well in Columbia - would be intersting to know if any are in Birmingham, Atlanta or Dallas.  

Thanks again!

Pretty much anywhere in the south could support palmettos I would think as long as the climate is warm enough. However I am no expert. It came as a surprise to me but I did see palmettos in Columbus, GA. In upstate SC I've seen 1 or 2 palmetto trees there but they are just not as popular as on the coast and the midland region of the state.

[Tennesseestorm]

Thanks very much Druid for that link and info!  I have been on that site you posted for nearly 3 hours looking at the trees there and getting info!  LOTS of links there to other tree information.  I discovered on a certain page that I am on the borderline of 6B-7A hardiness zones.  Seems like there are some palm trees that will grow here too, but I do not think the cabbage palm would survive here.  Seems to like zone 8A - MAYBE 7B if protected.  I like the looks of that "Mexican fan palm".  It shows to be zone 9A, but reported to grow in Chattanooga as a perennial - meaning dormant in winter and leaved out in spring and summer.  I wonder just how cold before it totally killed it?  Scroll to bottom of this link:
http://www.sepalms.o...k_Reference.htm

I am wanting to find a good palm to plant here to accompany my yuccas, southern magnolias, bald cypress, loblolly pines, peach trees, camellias, azaleas, and cane trees - to complete my "southern lawn".  

Thanks too for the info about these trees in the central GA area.  Obviously in Dallas area- those are great photos of the palms in Dallas!  I did not realize there were so many mice palms in the Raleigh, NC area- it has been years since I have been there to visit family- but I do not recall seeing any palms.  We did go on down to Wilmington, where they are abundant.  

Thanks again!  

DruidCity, on Mar 4 2006, 11:15 AM, said:

Yes. In Alabama, the farthest north I've seen thriving cabbage palms are roughly along the I-20 corridor :
Tuscaloosa-Birmingham-Anniston. There is a nice little palm display garden in Anniston, too.
I've seen 'em in Atlanta, too (which is connected to the above areas via I-20).
Far to my west, but still on I-20, Dallas can indeed grow palmetto trees: http://dallaspalms.com/

In addition to Sabal palmetto, jelly palms (Butia) and especially windmill palms (Trachycarpus) are occasionally seen in landscapes in the above cities.

Edited by Tennesseestorm, 04 March 2006 - 09:15 PM.

[DruidCity]

I've seen people try to grow the Washingtonia palms as dieback perennials, but they look like crap that way.
A restaurant in Birmingham planted a row of large (like 20-foot) Washingtonias, then removed them after they defoliated the first winter.

The short palms (Sabal minor and Rhapidophyllum (Needle Palm)) are probably the very most cold-hardy.
I've seen  Sabal minor in the wild a few miles south of Tuscaloosa.

Some other plants you might want to consider for "palm-like" effect :

Musa basjoo - Japanese fiber banana is very hardy as a die-back perennial.

Yucca rostrata - A lot of the southwest-native yuccas do just fine here in the east.
I've seen impressive photos of Y. rostrata growing in places like New Jersey.
The first really nice one I saw in person was at EPCOT in Orlando.
http://www.plantdeli...tail/00127.html

Another cold-hardy plant that is easy to grow & gives a "tropical" look is Clematis armandii.
The "Apple Blossom" form is slightly harder to find, but looks good.
Unlike most Clematis, this one is evergreen, has big, shiny leaves, and is robust (as opposed to how so many Clematis vines look kinda wimpy).

Edited by DruidCity, 05 March 2006 - 08:02 AM.

[Tennesseestorm]

Oooh - that Yucca rostrata is amazing!  I am going to get one!  Thanks for that link!  How do you find these sites?     

We have a lot of yuccas in my lawn, but there seems to be another type of yucca here in my city that look like mine, but they are taller- like a small tree.  I think there is a certain way you can prune them to get them to get taller.  I may do that to a couple of mine.  Attached is a photo of a few of mine late spring.  

Right about the needle palm - it seems to be the hardiest palm, but it really does not have the look I wanted, but they are neat - I may get some anyway.  

Upon some research on that site you posted- it seems like the "Windmill palm" may be a good choice.  Supposed to be OK in zone 7A (which I am barely in).  It says its hardiness is 0*F (with protection).  Temperatures of 0* are very rare here- its been years since it has dropped to the lower single digits.  This may be another one I should consider?  I definitely want one of thise Yucca rostrata!  It should be OK here- it shows zones 5-10.  

Thanks again!

This photo was not meant for the yuccas, but someone on a classic car site was wanting to the back of my old car, so I took that photo.  Just happened the yuccas showed nicely.  Also - one of my loblolly (that perished last year) with a yucca in the background.

DruidCity, on Mar 4 2006, 10:56 PM, said:

I've seen people try to grow the Washingtonia palms as dieback perennials, but they look like crap that way.
A restaurant in Birmingham planted a row of large (like 20-foot) Washingtonias, then removed them after they defoliated the first winter.

The short palms (Sabal minor and Rhapidophyllum (Needle Palm)) are probably the very most cold-hardy.
I've seen  Needle palms in the wild a few miles south of Tuscaloosa.

Some other plants you might want to consider for "palm-like" effect :

Musa basjoo - Japanese fiber banana is very hardy as a die-back perennial.

Yucca rostrata - A lot of the southwest-native yuccas do just fine here in the east.
I've seen impressive photos of Y. rostrata growing in places like New Jersey.
The first really nice one I saw in person was at EPCOT in Orlando.
http://www.plantdeli...tail/00127.html

Another cold-hardy plant that is easy to grow & gives a "tropical" look is Clematis armandii.
The "Apple Blossom" form is slightly harder to find, but looks good.
Unlike most Clematis, this one is evergreen, has big, shiny leaves, and is robust (as opposed to how so many Clematis vines look kinda wimpy).

Edited by Tennesseestorm, 04 March 2006 - 10:27 PM.

[Lady Celeste]

Tennesseestorm, on Mar 4 2006, 12:13 AM, said:

I have heard that these cabbage palmetto trees grow as far north and inland as Columbia, SC - can anyone verify this?  If they do- then how about Atlanta, Dallas or Birmingham?  Any "cabbage" palmetto trees in those cities?  If they grow there, then they definitely do in Columbia, since Columbia is typically a warmer city and a lot lower in elevation.

Tennesseestorm as far as Atlanta, I have seen them as far north are southern Forsyth County which is a northern suburban county of Atlanta. There is even one growing on the terrace of a 30th floor Penthouse in the Mayfair condominiums in Midtown Atlanta.   I love palms also and although I'm not gowing these types, I do have a few of my own.

[DruidCity]

Re: Trachycarpus ("Windmill Palm") - Since you're pretty much on the northern edge, you might want to seek out an especially hardy strain, perhaps T. takil : http://www.plantdeli...tail/02575.html

Tennesseestorm, your Yuccas look like the clumping type, Y. filamentosa.
The "spiky" ones that grow taller that you're probably seeing around town
are Y. aloifolia. Here's a special version of it :
http://www.plantdeli...tail/02105.html
In winter, the variegated ones like that take on a reddish coloration.

[Tennesseestorm]

Thanks for the replies!  I have to stay off of that site though - I have already racked up $73.00 in plants!     This was after I added that Trachycarpus ("Windmill Palm") you suggested.  I think it will do well here.  

Thanks again!  

DruidCity, on Mar 5 2006, 12:36 AM, said:

Re: Trachycarpus ("Windmill Palm") - Since you're pretty much on the northern edge, you might want to seek out an especially hardy strain, perhaps T. takil : http://www.plantdeli...tail/02575.html

Tennesseestorm, your Yuccas look like the clumping type, Y. filamentosa.
The "spiky" ones that grow taller that you're probably seeing around town
are Y. aloifolia. Here's a special version of it :
http://www.plantdeli...tail/02105.html
In winter, the variegated ones like that take on a reddish coloration.

[thedude26]

There are several hundred palms in Augusta, GA.  In the entire metro area, I would say there are a couple thousand of them.  They were most likely planted here though.

[Tennesseestorm]

Thanks.  I was pretty sure that Augusta had a lot of them.  I have relatives in Anderson, SC - which is almost due north of Augusta, but Anderson is higher in elevation and further north.  I have never been there, nor have I asked them if any are there.  

thedude26, on Mar 5 2006, 02:48 PM, said:

There are several hundred palms in Augusta, GA.  In the entire metro area, I would say there are a couple thousand of them.  They were most likely planted here though.

[Tennesseestorm]

Druid, I finally got a photo of my yucca in my lower lawn.  If I recall, this ONE yucca was the same one as my others in my lawn.  My father originally dug it from this spot (as he said it was too much in the shade) and moved it to the upper lawn.  There were actually a few other root clusters in it.  We planted them as you can see on the hillside in the previous photos, but it CAME BACK in its original spot.  I am assuming that we did not get all of the roots.  Actually, this one came from another spot (at our old house) which also came back.  Seems like when you dig them, transplant them, more comes back in its spot.  

I am planning on trimming the lower part of this one, to see if it will get that "tree" look.  I have heard that if you trim the bottoms, they get taller (develop a trunk).  

I am still going to get some of those on that site you posted.  I just got my loblolly pines planted and getting ready to plant some longleaf pines, as well as some hardy palms.  



Also- here is a photo of my southern magnolia - its about 10 years old now.  



And one of my newly planted loblolly pines - which seem to be a well known southeastern pine tree.  



After some research on that palm tree site you posted, there are several that seem to do well even in my zone (6B - 7A).  I am going to do more research and pick out the best one.  I was suprised at that one site, of that very large palm tree in Chattanooga.  

Thanks again for posting those!

[lammius]

Tennesseestorm, on Mar 4 2006, 12:13 AM, said:

Call me crazy, but I am a tree "nut".

I am wondering - who has cabbage palm trees in their city?  If you live in Florida, southern MS, AL, GA, SC (eastern), or coastal NC and southeastern VA- then I know the answer is yes,

I grew up in SE VA.  We didn't have any type of palms.  A few hotels at the Va Beach Oceanfront have planted them but they look horrible and they have to be wrapped up during winter.  I can't think of any places in NE NC that have them either.  The farthest north I've seen these things planted in large numbers is extreme SE NC (Wilmington and surrounding beaches).  I don't even know that they're native to those areas.  

I love palms, though.  I wish I could keep the majesty palm in my apartment alive!  It's not looking too good now



I should add that last summer I saw some palms (not sure what kind) planted on the beach in Point Pleasant, New Jersey!  I'm sure they were pulled out at the end of summer though.  Here's a pic of them...

Edited by lammius, 09 March 2006 - 12:59 AM.

[DruidCity]

Quote

Seems like when you dig (Yuccas), transplant them, more comes back in its spot.

Yep. I remember one time when neighbors chopped up some of their Yuccas and threw them in the trash pile. I took some of the stems (even though they had no roots) and stuck them in the ground in my yard, and they rooted and grew just fine.

For those wanting to grow palms in extremely cold area, there's even a "Palms for the Northeast"
message board : http://members3.boar...t.com/joe02917/