153 replies to this topic

[Tennesseestorm]

Thanks for asking.... they are doing fine!  Unlike last winter at this time, my Live Oaks still have the leaves on them.  Last year was the first year, so I think that is why they lost their their leaves, but this year, they are fine- well, so far.      The Windmill is thriving.  I also went out on a limb last summer and planted a Slash pine, which is not native here.... it too has thrived.  Really suprised me in this red clay soil.  My Longleaf pines are growing like mad, but I was sure they would be OK, because there are a few of these in this area,  but not many.  Most pines here are Loblolly, White pine, Virginia pine, as well as some others I cannot recall at this time.  

I was just discussing the Live oaks with another Tennesseean who lives in north central Tennessee that has had Live oaks since 1996 and one is nearly 4 stories tall!  He has some photos posted somewhere.  They are even draped with Spanish moss, which he said he has had on them for years and it has survived amazingly.  


Still, my Spanish Moss for the most part is also doing well, but some of it is looking glum.  Most of that I got last summer that was "sick" when it was shipped to me has seemed to have died out.  The healthy moss that was sent to me is still nice looking, but it is not as nice green looking when wet.  I think our lows in the lower 10s for a few mornings took a toll on it.  During dry spells, I "mist" it occasionally with water.  The moss that I have kept in the house is not well at all, despite only about 5 hours of sunlight and misting it with water daily.  I think its just too dry and hot in this room.  Some of my outdoor moss that is healthy has SOME areas in it that appear white when wet, rather than green.  Thats the parts I think is not doing well.  We will see though, we are on the trend toward spring.  Hopefully it will survive.  

Since my Birmingham and Windmill palms have been successful here, I am thinking of moving onto something even more challenging/risky here.  I am going to try a Cabbage palm next.  I am also going to plant a Sabal Minor and a Needle palm, which should be fine here, especially the latter, which is a zone 6b now and I am in 7a.  It has been said to survive as cold as -25° and we have never been that cold here... not within the last 125 years anyway .  

poonther, on Feb 2 2008, 12:00 PM, said:

T-storm....how are your Windmills and Live Oaks doing this winter up there?

Edited by Tennesseestorm, 04 February 2008 - 12:05 AM.

[HSVTiger]

In the Huntsville area

http://www.coldpalms.com/index.html

[Tennesseestorm]

HSVTiger, on Apr 5 2008, 09:35 PM, said:

In the Huntsville area

http://www.coldpalms.com/index.html

Thanks.  Thats an interesting website.  Do they sell locally only?  

I would like to get a larger needle palm.  I just purchased three Sabal Minors that I will be planting next week.

[Alabadrock]

Tennesseestorm, on Apr 7 2008, 12:12 AM, said:

Thanks.  Thats an interesting website.  Do they sell locally only?  

I would like to get a larger needle palm.  I just purchased three Sabal Minors that I will be planting next week.

My family purchased three from them about a year ago.  They told us that they get business from about as far away as Gadsden, but do most of their business in Huntsville and Decatur.  If you do live in Bristol like your sidebar thing says you do, they may not survive that far north.  The palms we bought survive at just a bit above zero and below that is quite dangerous for them.  And, in North Alabama does get down to zero a few times each decade, we're usually the farthest north it's safe for them.

[Tennesseestorm]

Thanks.. yes, I live in Bristol in northeast Tennessee.  I am not sure which palm you are referring to that will not survive here.. are you referring to the Cabbage Palm?  Yeah, that one is iffy and I may pass on that, but not sure if you noticed , but there is a photo here of someone 20 miles west of here in Kingsport with a large Cabbage palm that he has had for 3 years without damage.  I was told he wraps it with heat tape when temps drop below 15°, which is not that common even here.  

The palms that I am sure are safe here are the Needle palm, Windmill palm, Sabal Birmingham and Sabal Minor.  All are supposed to be OK to about 0° and I have heard the Needle palm grows even in the northern USA (I have heard as far north as Ohio) in some areas and has said to withstand temperatures below -20°... thats cold!  We have not seen weather that cold since 1985 and its not been nowhere near that cold since.  We have not even been below 0° here in over 15 years.  Maybe its our area?  I know we are now officially in zone 7a, which is 0° minimum.  Our coldest low at my house in years was 8° and I am in a rural area.  Temps even near zero are very rare here these days.  I know of several people here that have some of the above mentioned palms that they have had for years.  

Thanks for that info on the site... I would love to get one of those larger Needle palms... I may contact them somehow.  

Alabadrock, on Apr 7 2008, 03:53 PM, said:

If you do live in Bristol like your sidebar thing says you do, they may not survive that far north.  The palms we bought survive at just a bit above zero and below that is quite dangerous for them.  And, in North Alabama does get down to zero a few times each decade, we're usually the farthest north it's safe for them.

[Alabadrock]

Tennesseestorm, on Apr 11 2008, 12:47 AM, said:

Thanks.. yes, I live in Bristol in northeast Tennessee.  I am not sure which palm you are referring to that will not survive here.. are you referring to the Cabbage Palm?  Yeah, that one is iffy and I may pass on that, but not sure if you noticed , but there is a photo here of someone 20 miles west of here in Kingsport with a large Cabbage palm that he has had for 3 years without damage.  I was told he wraps it with heat tape when temps drop below 15°, which is not that common even here.  

The palms that I am sure are safe here are the Needle palm, Windmill palm, Sabal Birmingham and Sabal Minor.  All are supposed to be OK to about 0° and I have heard the Needle palm grows even in the northern USA (I have heard as far north as Ohio) in some areas and has said to withstand temperatures below -20°... thats cold!  We have not seen weather that cold since 1985 and its not been nowhere near that cold since.  We have not even been below 0° here in over 15 years.  Maybe its our area?  I know we are now officially in zone 7a, which is 0° minimum.  Our coldest low at my house in years was 8° and I am in a rural area.  Temps even near zero are very rare here these days.  I know of several people here that have some of the above mentioned palms that they have had for years.  

Thanks for that info on the site... I would love to get one of those larger Needle palms... I may contact them somehow.

WOW, I hadn't heard of some of those.  Interesting to find out.  We have three Windmills, which as you said are OK down to 0.  That is weird, cause I remember about a decade ago it getting down to about -1.  Hmm, who knows, ridges and valleys can affect the temps A LOT.

[Tennesseestorm]

Alabadrock, on Apr 11 2008, 01:22 AM, said:

WOW, I hadn't heard of some of those.  Interesting to find out.  We have three Windmills, which as you said are OK down to 0.  That is weird, cause I remember about a decade ago it getting down to about -1.  Hmm, who knows, ridges and valleys can affect the temps A LOT.

Oh yeah- those are some of the most hardy palms.  I have had my Windmill palm for about 3 years now and have never given it any protection, but like I said the coldest we have dropped to in 3 years was a couple of 8° mornings in the winter of 2006-07.  If you dropped to -1° and your Windmills were OK, then it looks like it will be perfectly fine in the future.  Like in that photo- there is even a guy here with a large Cabbage palm, but I do not think I will chance one now.    

My Sabal Birmingham was also untouched... some say this ones OK down to about -5°.  We used to be in zone 6b, but the USDA has bumped us up to 7a over the past couple of years.  We actually have zone 7a trees that have been here for over 70 years.  The Southern Magnolia is officially a 7a tree, but we have some here that are huge and said to be over 100 years old.  We have one in a local cemetary next to my grandmothers that is so large, I cannot put my arms around it - not even 1/2 way.  Its amazing.  Makes you wonder if some trees are not underrated.  They obviously survived our all-time record low of -20° in 1985 at the airport- which is one the coolest area of the metro however - it was not nearly as cold here where we live.  It has not got nowhere near that cold since either.... thanks goodness.    

Yeah, location plays a big part in temps... like valleys, etc.  Our airport is in a river valley location and it gets much cooler there at night that most of the metro area.

[USF_Rockstar]

Coconut palms are where its at... Only in FL from about Martin County south on the east coast and Pinellas County south on the west coast. I'm curious whether or not they live in southern California. It would seem like the climate would permit those palms to live there but I've never seen a picture of one in SoCal.

Ocean Dr., Miami Beach, FL



Key Biscane Causeway

Edited by USF_Rockstar, 23 June 2008 - 07:14 PM.

[waccamatt]

I have to admit I like Coconut Palms, but my absolute favorite is the Canary Island Date Palm. I haven't chanced trying to grow one here in 7B, though I think a decent-sized one with the right placement could survive.

[pinetree221]

If your really into palms, I strongly suggest picking up on of Alan W. Meerow's books on the subject.  I personally have an old copy of "Betrocks Guide to Landscape Palms", which has some good information about cold-hardy palms.  He also has written a book devoted to cold-hardy palms, called "Betrock's Cold Hardy Palms".  A search on Amazon on his name will show those books.

Incidentally, I used to live in Charlotte, and I recall seeing a side street in one of the inner suburbs, near one of the hospitals I believe, that had lots of palms.  I'm not sure what kind of palms they were, but I believe there were date palm, washington palms, and several palms that may have been Australian fan palms (Livistona australis).  They looked like sabal palmettos but their leaves drooped down, like a curtain.

In eastern NC, I remember seeing a lot of those tall yucca plants, which businesses used to use in place of palm trees.  I always thought they looked neat.

[poonther]

USF I've seen Coconuts thriving as far north as Melbourne on the East Coast, but they were right near the water like they are in Pinellas.  I've only seen coconuts in SoCal right near the coast and often in very protected areas like courtyards.  They also didn't look so healthy.  That maybe b/c they do have several chilly nights in the winter (especially in the valleys like the San Fernando), their daytime highs in the winter often stay colder than FL's and their long dry season and low average yearly rainfall.  I've also seen adult coconuts in far south Texas. I use to have two monster ones (the Jamaican variety) at my house in Ft. Lauderdale and miss them very much.

waccamatt, Canaries do well here in Tally which is zone 8b, but the central city under the trees and urban heat is more like zone 9a.  Here you can see them at FSU's Wescott bldg.  There are a lot taller ones around town too.




pinetree I'm in Charlotte a lot visiting good friends.  I'm surprised that Washingtonia's survived there.  I've seen them die from cold points much further south.  Same goes for date palms.  They must have been California Fans and not Mexican Fans.  I'd just as surprised about the Australians, however I'm not doubting you since you know your palms it seems.  The Australian's cousin, the Chinese Fan, does grow here in Tally zone 8b, but when they are young, you must provide them w/protection from the coldest nights.  Most of the palms I've seen in CLT have been Windmills and Needle Palms.

[NCMike1981]

I've noticed a few palm trees are starting to make their way into Raleigh (NC). I think they are mainly windmill palms. The few that I've noticed are Pullen Park, 1 in front of the police station downtown, Bahama Breeze off Wake Forest Rd (yep they are real haha) and there's this spa off Hwy 70/Glenwood near Umstead that has a whole slew of them. It seems like folks are starting to experiment with them more but you really have to look closely for them as the winters in central NC can be a bit tough for widespread palms. If you want lots of palm trees in NC you'll need to head to coastal NC, Wilmington has them everywhere, although I don't think they grow naturally in the wild, except maybe in the extreme SE corner of the state.

I think the main factor in NC when it comes to palm trees is distance from the ocean. The exception to this is of course the mountains and foothills region in the western part of the state. I can't imagine a palm tree ever surviving a winter at an elevation above 5 or 6k ft in western NC, I think you'd be hard pressed to even grow one above 2000 ft without alot of precautions during the winter. Across the central part of the state the elevation change is much more gradual. The Triangle area (Raleigh/Wake Co-Durham/Durham Co-Chapel Hill/Orange Co) is in the north eastern piedmont, Raleigh being near the fall line where the piedmont meets the coastal plain. Elevationwise in the Triangle it varies from around 200 feet in SE Wake County to a few hilly peaks just under 900 feet in NW Orange County. Raleigh in central Wake County is about 120 miles from the coast with an avg elevation of 350ish ft, and Hillsborough, in central Orange Co is about 40ish miles northwest of Raleigh with an avg elevation of 600ish ft just to give you an idea on distance. As a side note I've never noticed any palm trees in Orange County although I'm sure there are a few small windmill or needle palms tucked away in residential areas. I've noticed a few small (trunkless) palms in Durham before, but it seems like Raleigh/Wake County is sort of on the boundary of where you'll start noticing taller palms, and even then you have to almost be searching for them.

Here's a few examples of some of the windmill palms found in Pullen Park in Raleigh. Note they tend to turn a bit brownish in the winter but seem to do just fine overall. I know they've been there for years, and the ones pictures tend to be as tall as the few that we have scattered around Raleigh get. I'd definately recommend all palm fans head out to Pullen Park, there are a few clusters of these palms scattered about, and a few are even tucked away off to the side amongst other types of trees.....

Sorry for my ramblings, this palm tree talk has got me wishing for the summer haha.

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Edited by NCMike1981, 03 March 2010 - 11:23 PM.

[Hybrid0NE]

Row of Palmettos at Days Inn Atlanta Marietta Galleria location...


It was a rough winter here in the Atlanta Metro. Can't wait to get back to Columbia and see some lush green ones.

[NCMike1981]

Here are some palms located off Glenwood Avenue in NW Raleigh (NC):





They didn't seem to mind the last few cold winters we've had...seems like more palm trees are popping up in Raleigh everyday!