125 replies to this topic

[AlabamaGuy2007]

Rocket256, on Aug 1 2006, 03:15 PM, said:

what's the name of the church?

Calvary Assembly

[Southron]

monsoon, on Jul 26 2006, 05:04 PM, said:

Build a bunch of roads and you get a bunch of sprawl.  Alabama's future ought not be based on more highway building.

Exactly!  We don't need anymore interstates or widened existing interstates.

[Southron]

AlabamaGuy2007, on Jul 26 2006, 05:21 PM, said:

As true as that is, you can't say for sure that we won't still be drive on four wheels down a paved road in the future.  You're right about the sprawl, but, that's really hard to control without creating hazardous traffic problems.

Suburban sprawl is the source of hazardous traffic problems.  Building or widening roads induces more traffic, creating traffic problems rather than alleviating them.

[kayman]

ExpatBaman, on Aug 14 2006, 02:15 AM, said:

Suburban sprawl is the source of hazardous traffic problems.  Building or widening roads induces more traffic, creating traffic problems rather than alleviating them.

I agree.  We need more coordinated control over all this sprawl that is occuring in the state just look at Greater Birmingham.  It is sprawling in all directions nowdays where it used to just do this in just south of the city towards Shelby County.  Now Shelby County is hemmed into major traffic problems because all this out of control growth.  The state's transportation funding should be divided evenly between roads and public transportation.  This would allow better management of funds while improving on our existing infustructure in our cities.

[aupatt10]

The only toll roads that would really make any sense would be something like the I-95/JFK Highway in NE Maryland applied to I-65 north of BHM. And the other would be the elevated roadway on US 280.

With the JFK Highway you are charged a one-time toll of $5 on your northbound travel, this would be applied to I-65 just inside the TN state line. There would be no other tolls charged for exits, just a one time toll upon entering the state.

US 280 would recieve its elevated roadway and have 3 tolled entry and exit points, Homewood, I-459 and the eastern terminus between Eagle Point Pkwy and Highland Lake Dr.

Edited by aupatt10, 11 September 2006 - 11:34 AM.

[davidzLA]

It's obvious you put a lot of work into this, but I have to agree, many of these have little chance of being built in the foreseeable future.  (I once routed out a deep-bore subway system for Birmingham if it makes you feel better.)  Tolled lanes in metro Birmingham, and later the other big 3 I envision within the next 5-20 years.

To play devil's advocate I'd say the reason many of these freeway corridors aren't built already (or will be this century) is because the demand isn't there, and aside from some sort of population explosion in the state I'd be surprised if that changed drastically.  Aside from a crisis scenario, like an 10m evacuation of coastal Florida due to rising sea level, I just don't see Alabama's economy growing so much faster than the national average as to see that come to be.  To be sure there are many corridors with outdated alignment and that could use an upgrade to freeway status (in my opinion the Shoals area's survival depends on a limited access US-72), quite possibly with a toll component.

One thing I don't understand is the talk about a major north-south freeway in west Alabama from Muscle Shoals to Mobile.  Am I missing something, is there some pent-up demand and need for such a freeway?  It strikes me as a road built from somewhere to somewhere else.  A big project to fill a perceived vacuum, to connect dots that don't need it.  I would imagine it would be among the lightest traveled freeways in the state, mostly truck traffic and beach-bound Tennesseans.  Considering the number of public works and road projects already needed, not to mention debt, I'd lay that asphalt elsewhere.  Toll roads can and do fail to pay for themselves, like the Hardy toll road in Houston.

I suspect Alabama will be very slow to embrace a long distance tollway model like Oklahoma or New Jersey's.  I mean, it could happen (I also marked up a few state maps with planned 800mph maglev.)

[AlabamaGuy2007]

davidzLA, on Oct 6 2006, 02:36 AM, said:

It's obvious you put a lot of work into this, but I have to agree, many of these have little chance of being built in the foreseeable future.  (I once routed out a deep-bore subway system for Birmingham if it makes you feel better.)  Tolled lanes in metro Birmingham, and later the other big 3 I envision within the next 5-20 years.

To play devil's advocate I'd say the reason many of these freeway corridors aren't built already (or will be this century) is because the demand isn't there, and aside from some sort of population explosion in the state I'd be surprised if that changed drastically.  Aside from a crisis scenario, like an 10m evacuation of coastal Florida due to rising sea level, I just don't see Alabama's economy growing so much faster than the national average as to see that come to be.  To be sure there are many corridors with outdated alignment and that could use an upgrade to freeway status (in my opinion the Shoals area's survival depends on a limited access US-72), quite possibly with a toll component.

One thing I don't understand is the talk about a major north-south freeway in west Alabama from Muscle Shoals to Mobile.  Am I missing something, is there some pent-up demand and need for such a freeway?  It strikes me as a road built from somewhere to somewhere else.  A big project to fill a perceived vacuum, to connect dots that don't need it.  I would imagine it would be among the lightest traveled freeways in the state, mostly truck traffic and beach-bound Tennesseans.  Considering the number of public works and road projects already needed, not to mention debt, I'd lay that asphalt elsewhere.  Toll roads can and do fail to pay for themselves, like the Hardy toll road in Houston.

I suspect Alabama will be very slow to embrace a long distance tollway model like Oklahoma or New Jersey's.  I mean, it could happen (I also marked up a few state maps with planned 800mph maglev.)

Yea, that's why I included only if there was to be enough support for one.   

The reason why the want a north south freeway is to spark growth in the Black Belt.  It would like the Shoals to Tuscaloosa then Selma then I guess eventually Mobile.

[DruidCity]

Quote

It would like the Shoals to Tuscaloosa then Selma then I guess eventually Mobile.

I think the Tuscaloosa-Mobile route that ALDOT is looking at now is farther west ( possibly around Gordo ).

[aupatt10]

AlabamaGuy2007, on Oct 6 2006, 03:29 PM, said:

The reason why the want a north south freeway is to spark growth in the Black Belt.  It would like the Shoals to Tuscaloosa then Selma then I guess eventually Mobile.

After spending the last 4 days in the "Black Belt", which I can safely say is named such, not for its ethnic makeup, but for the fact that if you were to take a picture from an airplane at night, all you would see is big black spot, I am convinced that the good people of that region are content with the way things are. I was working in Coffeeville and staying in Thomasville, and got the impression that they were content with their support of the logging industry and I'm sure enough of them commute to Montgomery, Mobile or Meridian to work. The most important thing that needs to be developed in the area is funding, if the state made an effort and dumped money into improving the education it would make all the difference in the area.

Building a N/S interstate in the western part of Alabama makes about as much sense as a domed stadium in Birmingham.

[Huntsville_secede]

I say to connect all of the main cities in Alabama need to be connected by the interstate system.  This does not currently exists. Mobile & Tuscaloosa.. Mobile & Montgomery.... Huntsville, Gadsen, Anniston all cities that are fairly close to each other are not connected without doing some major backtracking when you travel.

1) Build an expressway between Tuscaloosa and Mobile (the western alabama north south freeway except don't build the part north of tuscaloosa, there won't be a need for that since I-22 will go through this area and the Memphis to Huntsville expressway.

2) Go ahead and build the 85 extension from Montgomery to Meridian.  This will connect Montgomery with Meridian, Jackson, and Tuscaloosa (by way of the highway built between Mobile and Tuscaloosa)

3) Build the Memphis to Huntsville expresway (don't build the part to atlanta i have a solution below for that part) (US 72 in Huntsville is also supposed to be upgraded to interstate grade all the way I-24 outside of Chattanooga)

4) Instead of building the Huntsville to Atlanta highway, built a north south expressway connecting Huntsville-Gadsen-Anniston and terminating as far south as needed possibly all the way to I-10. or connect to I-85 somehow. This can be an alternative to the extra north-south freeway that may be needed to alleviate traffic on 65

5) Of course the Memphis to Birmingham freeway is already under construction

6) Birmingham to Auburn/Columbus GA also connecting Montgomery with Columbus, GA and possibly intersecting with the Huntsville/Gadsen/Anniston freeway and connecting with Dothan depending on how far south the Hsv/Anniston freeway goes.

That will give all of the major cities an extra highway or so going through the city

6) Whatever loop expressways are needed for each city, e.g. Birmingham Northern Bypass... Huntsville Southern & Northern Bypass.. Tuscaloosa western bypass, etc.

[codyg1985]

1) Just to be sure that both ends tie into those cities and not at some point east or west of those cities.  It could be an alternative to I-65, but this, just like the West Alabama freeway, seems like a project to connect a small population to another small population (relatively speaking) with nothing in between.  Hardly an economic opportunity there, even less that if both areas connected had a metro population of 1 million plus.

2) may actually make a bit more sense for through traffic interests, but I would take a guess that US 80 isn't exactly gridlocked either.

3) From what I understand US 72 is slated to be upgraded to a freeway east of Huntsville to Gurley where the loop around Huntsville will intersect US 72.  Much of "Corridor V" which was to connect Huntsville and Chattanooga via I-24 has been built already as a four-lane highway.  I could possibly see a need for US 72 between Huntsville and Kimball, TN to be upgraded to a freeway.  It would make more sense than the previous two proposals IMHO.

4) Part of this may come to fruition in the form of extending I-759 in both directions in Gadsden.  Originally the I-59/I-759 interchange was built to accommodate a westward extension.  There has been some talk of connecting both ends of I-759 to US 431 north of Attalla and southeast of Gadsden, but nothing has been set in stone yet.  The Anniston Eastern Bypass, which currently ends well shy of forming a bypass, isn't a freeway but a five-lane boulevard as it stands now.  

I think that proposal would be something that may be built in segments in Huntsville, Gadsden, Auburn/Opelika/Phenix City, and Dothan.  There needs to be a bypass of Guntersville/Albertville/Boaz on US 431.  The Huntsville-Gadsden segment may see the light of day at some point, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Edited by codyg1985, 02 November 2006 - 04:07 PM.

[rivercity123]

Huntsville_secede, on Nov 2 2006, 11:48 AM, said:

I say to connect all of the main cities in Alabama need to be connected by the interstate system.  This does not currently exists. Mobile & Tuscaloosa.. Mobile & Montgomery.... Huntsville, Gadsen, Anniston all cities that are fairly close to each other are not connected without doing some major backtracking when you travel.

1) Build an expressway between Tuscaloosa and Mobile (the western alabama north south freeway except don't build the part north of tuscaloosa, there won't be a need for that since I-22 will go through this area and the Memphis to Huntsville expressway.

2) Go ahead and build the 85 extension from Montgomery to Meridian.  This will connect Montgomery with Meridian, Jackson, and Tuscaloosa (by way of the highway built between Mobile and Tuscaloosa)

3) Build the Memphis to Huntsville expresway (don't build the part to atlanta i have a solution below for that part) (US 72 in Huntsville is also supposed to be upgraded to interstate grade all the way I-24 outside of Chattanooga)

4) Instead of building the Huntsville to Atlanta highway, built a north south expressway connecting Huntsville-Gadsen-Anniston and terminating as far south as needed possibly all the way to I-10. or connect to I-85 somehow. This can be an alternative to the extra north-south freeway that may be needed to alleviate traffic on 65

5) Of course the Memphis to Birmingham freeway is already under construction

6) Birmingham to Auburn/Columbus GA also connecting Montgomery with Columbus, GA and possibly intersecting with the Huntsville/Gadsen/Anniston freeway and connecting with Dothan depending on how far south the Hsv/Anniston freeway goes.

That will give all of the major cities an extra highway or so going through the city

6) Whatever loop expressways are needed for each city, e.g. Birmingham Northern Bypass... Huntsville Southern & Northern Bypass.. Tuscaloosa western bypass, etc.

Some of these projects are really probably not going to happy, like the Memphis to Atlanta highway.  But, I really only see the need for a complete eastern Alabama expressway.  One that goes from Huntsville, with a connector to Decatur since no one will want to drie down 67 or go NORTH to Huntsville just to get on this thing, and goes south to Gadsden, then to Anniston, then down to Auburn, and eventually ending at I-10 in Florida.  That would be the most supported.  Well, over half the states population would be within 40-50 miles of this highway.  Not to mention how much traffic would go down in cities like Decatur, Birmingham, Montgomery, Troy, and even Mobile could see some traffic reduction.

[Huntsville_secede]

rivercity123, on Nov 2 2006, 11:34 PM, said:

Some of these projects are really probably not going to happy, like the Memphis to Atlanta highway.  But, I really only see the need for a complete eastern Alabama expressway.  One that goes from Huntsville, with a connector to Decatur since no one will want to drie down 67 or go NORTH to Huntsville just to get on this thing, and goes south to Gadsden, then to Anniston, then down to Auburn, and eventually ending at I-10 in Florida.  That would be the most supported.  Well, over half the states population would be within 40-50 miles of this highway.  Not to mention how much traffic would go down in cities like Decatur, Birmingham, Montgomery, Troy, and even Mobile could see some traffic reduction.

Building this would remove the need for the Huntsville to Atlanta highway because Huntsville will be connected to Atlanta via Anniston.  Why do you think the Memphis to Atlanta highway will never get done, its listed on the 30 year development plan by the state and the city of HUntsville.

[rivercity123]

Huntsville_secede, on Nov 3 2006, 06:52 AM, said:

Building this would remove the need for the Huntsville to Atlanta highway because Huntsville will be connected to Atlanta via Anniston.  Why do you think the Memphis to Atlanta highway will never get done, its listed on the 30 year development plan by the state and the city of HUntsville.

It wouldn't remove the need for a Huntsville to Altanta highway.  It takes a long time to drive from Huntsville to I-20 via Anniston.  There could easily be a connector that runs through Scottsboro and over the river southeast to I-75.  

Because, it's been being planned for a really long time.  If it does happen, it'll take decades.  With I-22, Miss. had their portion built for a LONG time.  ALDOT just took their sweet time.  The 30 year development plan isn't law, it's just what the city would like to do, it doesn't mean they'll actually do it.  A multi state highway is a pretty big project for one city.

[PortofBama]

aupatt10, on Oct 6 2006, 08:27 PM, said:

After spending the last 4 days in the "Black Belt", which I can safely say is named such, not for its ethnic makeup, but for the fact that if you were to take a picture from an airplane at night, all you would see is big black spot, I am convinced that the good people of that region are content with the way things are. I was working in Coffeeville and staying in Thomasville, and got the impression that they were content with their support of the logging industry and I'm sure enough of them commute to Montgomery, Mobile or Meridian to work. The most important thing that needs to be developed in the area is funding, if the state made an effort and dumped money into improving the education it would make all the difference in the area.

Building a N/S interstate in the western part of Alabama makes about as much sense as a domed stadium in Birmingham.

  I strongly agree !!!

[Huntsville_secede]

rivercity123, on Nov 3 2006, 03:35 PM, said:

It wouldn't remove the need for a Huntsville to Altanta highway.  It takes a long time to drive from Huntsville to I-20 via Anniston.  There could easily be a connector that runs through Scottsboro and over the river southeast to I-75.  

Because, it's been being planned for a really long time.  If it does happen, it'll take decades.  With I-22, Miss. had their portion built for a LONG time.  ALDOT just took their sweet time.  The 30 year development plan isn't law, it's just what the city would like to do, it doesn't mean they'll actually do it.  A multi state highway is a pretty big project for one city.

Yeah I agree there needs to be an expressway connecting Huntsville to Atlanta directly it would really cut down on time.  I'm just saying at least there would be a quicker way than now to get to Atlanta directly by expressway.  Georgia still has to agree to build their part and last I heard they didnt.

[kayman]

Huntsville_secede, on Nov 4 2006, 03:41 PM, said:

Yeah I agree there needs to be an expressway connecting Huntsville to Atlanta directly it would really cut down on time.  I'm just saying at least there would be a quicker way than now to get to Atlanta directly by expressway.  Georgia still has to agree to build their part and last I heard they didnt.

I doubt that road will ever get built connecting to I-75.  The most likely scenerio will be the upgrading of U.S. 72 to an limited access highway connecting Huntsville with Chattanooga via I-24.

Edited by Leonard23, 04 November 2006 - 06:33 PM.

[codyg1985]

Huntsville_secede, on Nov 4 2006, 03:41 PM, said:

Yeah I agree there needs to be an expressway connecting Huntsville to Atlanta directly it would really cut down on time.  I'm just saying at least there would be a quicker way than now to get to Atlanta directly by expressway.  Georgia still has to agree to build their part and last I heard they didnt.

I think Georgia is/was interested in upgrading US 411/GA 20 from Rome to Cartersville to a freeway, but nothing west of Rome.

I think Georgia is thinking along the lines of how Tennessee thought about upgrading US 78; Alabama will not build it within a century, so why build a road to nowhere?

[Huntsville_secede]

bamasouth, on Nov 6 2006, 04:45 PM, said:

That would be a great idea.  But, it wouldn't do us much good would it?  It'd be great for them to extend it maybe to Gadsden.

Actually it would do us a much good if they would extend it to where the memphis to Atlanta expressway via Huntsville enters Georgia.. THat expressway was suppose to connect to I-75 at Cartersville, GA.

[codyg1985]

Huntsville_secede, on Nov 6 2006, 05:39 PM, said:

Actually it would do us a much good if they would extend it to where the memphis to Atlanta expressway via Huntsville enters Georgia.. THat expressway was suppose to connect to I-75 at Cartersville, GA.

I think that's GDOT's answer for now for the Memphis-Huntsville-Atlanta interstate.  Alabama is the state that is pushing for the road to be built, and only northern Alabama interests are pushing for this for now.  Mississippi isn't interested either beyond a bypass of Corinth, MS (and judging by the light amount of traffic on the existing four-lane US 72 east of Memphis during rush hour, a freeway isn't needed).

I figure if Alabama actually gets around to building its portion of the highway then other DOT's may become more interested in doing their part, but I figure that for the moment this highway is seen as a pipe dream more than anything else outside of Alabama.