258 replies to this topic

[kayman]

rolltider, on Jun 25 2006, 08:10 PM, said:

I guess I am an idiot but 40 years ago the 'intelligent' people were saying Birmingham doesn't need a civic center.  But now, where would this city be without the BJCC?

This city desperately needs an improved civic center, an entertainment district, more hotels and a dome.  I have to wonder if people here realize how far behind we really are.  This is not only about entertainment for the city, it is about a commitment to the future to attract interest from prospective business and employers that want to locate in a progressive city.

I used to agree about the dome stadium, but that's before the price jump nearly 20% over the last 3 years.  I think the dome talk is a wrap, but the discussions of a Plan B that could bring a vastly improved and renovated BJCC Arena that is to NBA, AFL, and NHL standards and possible corporate naming rights.  Plus on top of it most cities nowadays aren't building full enclosed dome stadiums anymore, but stadiums with a retractable roofs.  I want Birmingham to move forward and become a very viable destination for conventions and exhibition show, but a major expansion without a dome would be the solution.

In addition, most stadiums (not arenas) are nearly always fully funded by private investors.  That is something that hasn't obviously been a proponent in this situation.

Edited by Leonard23, 25 June 2006 - 07:23 PM.

[Fear of Heights]

I was strongly in favor of a dome for the longest time but now agree that a scaled down but still major renovation of the arena along with increased convention space and a new hotel and entertainment district is a much better plan. An outdoor stadium can be built at a later date with private money IMO (and in another area of downtown....perhaps midtown?).  

On a side note, I think a dual purpose open air stadium would be a better option for downtown (somewhere in midtown preferably somewhere between 20th street and the Red Mtn Expressway....in other words tear down/buy out a large area of low rise buildings and build it there.).  I'm thinking more in the way of a smaller sized stadium with tons of expansion possiblities built to accomodate large concerts, an MLS franchise, or even a bowl game/NFL franchise.  The MLS franchise in particular is far from a pipe dream when you consider that the sport is slowly but surely growing in popularity in the US and Bham has a strong soccer reputation among Southern U.S. cities. Personally, I'm not much of a soccer fan but I've heard Bham mentioned is some impressive company when it comes to soccer in this country. Imagine a sweet, sparkling 35,000 to 40,000 seat stadium with low level/open ended endzones (which would provide major expansion potential if ever needed).   You could develop an entertainment district around it as well while provided an incredible concert venue and large event facility in a fairly nice part of downtown.  Though I'm a Bama grad/fan and not fond of a program (UAB football) that is openly hostile towards the main campus, I would think they could use such a facility as well. This would be totally separate from any convention/arena renovation/entertainment/hotel project at the current BJCC site. I mention the open air stadium idea in light of Blazer85 mentioning of a possible private "dome" development in Gardendale. I think my suggestion wouldn't be any crazier than what could happen in Gardendale. Just some food for thought.

[Blazer85]

Rumors are that there may be a similar proposal as this for an area near Gardendale (north of downtown Birmingham).

[kayman]

Blazer85, on Jun 29 2006, 04:10 PM, said:

Rumors are that there may be a similar proposal as this for an area near Gardendale (north of downtown Birmingham).

I hope this doesn't come to fruition.  All this will do is push to make Greater Birmingham into another Metro Detroit.

[where_am_I]

I was very supportive of the dome myself, me being a birmingham native, but now I am getting the impression that the dome proposal should definitely be shot down.  But I fully agree that an expanded BJCC arena, (probably to 18,500-20,500 seating capacity), an entertainment district, additional hotel rooms, and expanded exhibition space would do very, very well for B'ham and the entire area.  I like to use Oklahoma City as a example and what they did to revitalize their city with a new downtown arena and an entertainment district  http://www.visitokc....psprojects.html.  This would be a good example for B'ham to use, and I think the public would (SHOULD) support an expanded BJCC and entertainment district.  In a matter of time, the Steeldogs are upgraded to AFL, and possibly a NBA or NHL franchise would be soon to follow if an expanded arena, additional hotel rooms, entertainment, and area support were to be offered.

[kayman]

where_am_I, on Jul 4 2006, 05:51 PM, said:

I was very supportive of the dome myself, me being a birmingham native, but now I am getting the impression that the dome proposal should definitely be shot down.  But I fully agree that an expanded BJCC arena, (probably to 18,500-20,500 seating capacity), an entertainment district, additional hotel rooms, and expanded exhibition space would do very, very well for B'ham and the entire area.  I like to use Oklahoma City as a example and what they did to revitalize their city with a new downtown arena and an entertainment district  http://www.visitokc....psprojects.html.  This would be a good example for B'ham to use, and I think the public would (SHOULD) support an expanded BJCC and entertainment district.  In a matter of time, the Steeldogs are upgraded to AFL, and possibly a NBA or NHL franchise would be soon to follow if an expanded arena, additional hotel rooms, entertainment, and area support were to be offered.

The OKC inspired development was part of the MAPS plan that Birmingham area officials had proposed and was put up for referendum.  However, it all failed because of 2 things:  1) It was another all or none type of referendum that is very common in this state, i.e. $1.2 billion tax reform package.  2)We had vocal opponents that claimed they had their own plan called RAPS but they fell back into obscurity once they did their dirty work.  

I see we are most definitely on the same page when it comes to the potential that the BJCC Arena has if they would improve it.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

I was originally a dome fan.  Of course, if we actually got one, that would be awesome, but as we probably won't get one......

The Plan B would be great, it would spur more growth, and, the thing is, if there is enough growth caused by the Plan B, there might be enough support for a dome.  You just have to see how it plays out.  Though, whether or not a dome would EVER work is unlikely, but it's still possible in the distant future.  Birmingham's personal income base needs to grow before any kind of upgrade of a football stadium is started.  

I think what should be done is the city needs to work on inducing a better living in the area around Legion Field.  If that works, and the area has gotten better as a whole, and the quality of life is up higher, then they should go forward with structural improvements on Legion Field as far as safety goes.  Then, if people feel the area around the stadium is safer, and the stadium is more structurally sound, then there's some room for expansion.  

The whole area would benefit much better if the city would work on improving the quality of life around Legion Field.

[aupatt10]

I think and have always felt that a dome would be a tremendous waste of the taxpayers money, unless Tom Benson wants to bring the Saints here and foot the bill for half of it.

I believe that replacing the current BJCC arena with one that meets or exceeds NBA/NHL standards and promoting the growth of an entertainment district in that part of town is the best course of action there. Also, like AG07, I think that the Graymont area is primed for a rebirth, and the foundation for that is a complete razing of Legion Field (I know is historical and all, but hey they are replacing Yankee Stadium) to make way for a new 45,000 seat mixed use facility to be used primarily by UAB and Birmingham Southern football teams, as well as continuing to host the events that currently use Legion Field. The facility would also be built to MLS and FIFA capable standards with the hope of drawing more exhibition matches and possibly a MLS franchise as the sport continues to grow in the US. Who knows, maybe keep a portion of Legion Field for a museum, or monument, kind of like that section of fence that is left from Fulton County Stadium in Atlanta.

I envision a light rail connecting the new Graymont Stadium District with the BJCC Entertainment district with a connection with the Birmingham International Airport. At the BJCC stop passengers would disembark there and use the trolley service to reach UAB, 5 Pts South or Lakeview.

Edited by aupatt10, 15 September 2006 - 11:01 PM.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

Looks like the dome plan might be revived again, judging by this article in the Bham news.  

Dome gets more discussion

[kayman]

AlabamaGuy2007, on Sep 23 2006, 01:20 PM, said:

Looks like the dome plan might be revived again, judging by this article in the Bham news.  

Dome gets more discussion

It's not really talking about the dome in particular (for once).  I have been saying for the longest that the BJCC board needs to look into expanding the current facilities like the arena and the exhibition halls for the longest.  There is no need for a dome at this point.  Like for instance Raleigh is a whole new convention center with out a dome in their region which slightly larger than Greater Birmingham.  We need to get the wheels rolling on just expanding the convention space that's all and BJCC board is still wrangling and badgering everybody over a damn dome.

[where_am_I]

Interesting article from the Birmingham News regarding a Birmingham Councilwoman's consideration to convert Legion Field into a domed stadium as an alternative to the proposed dome and expansion of the Birmingham Jefferson Civic Complex.

http://www.al.com/ne...e....xml&coll=2

Edited by where_am_I, 04 October 2006 - 04:53 PM.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

where_am_I, on Oct 4 2006, 05:51 PM, said:

Interesting article from the Birmingham News regarding a Birmingham Councilwoman's consideration to convert Legion Field into a domed stadium as an alternative to the proposed dome and expansion of the Birmingham Jefferson Civic Complex.

http://www.al.com/ne...e....xml&coll=2

I read that.  But, something about putting some kinda heavy covering on that old stadium scares me to death.

[kayman]

AlabamaGuy2007, on Oct 4 2006, 10:15 PM, said:

I read that.  But, something about putting some kinda heavy covering on that old stadium scares me to death.

It would be along the lines of what has been done to Soldier Field in Chicago and Lebeau Field in Green Bay.  Also city engineers have determined that Legion Field itself is structurally sound.  The only part that wasn't structurally sound was that upper deck that was removed last year.   It could be do successful if it was implemented properly, but I would prefer if a private investor other than UAB would contribute to this redevelopment if it did occur.

But the BJCC board needs to focus on upgrading the arena and expanding the exhibition halls with the funds they already possess.

Edited by Leonard23, 05 October 2006 - 11:46 AM.

[AlabamaGuy2007]

Leonard23, on Oct 5 2006, 12:43 PM, said:

It would be along the lines of what has been done to Soldier Field in Chicago and Lebeau Field in Green Bay.  Also city engineers have determined that Legion Field itself is structurally sound.  The only part that wasn't structurally sound was that upper deck that was removed last year.   It could be do successful if it was implemented properly, but I would prefer if a private investor other than UAB would contribute to this redevelopment if it did occur.

But the BJCC board needs to focus on upgrading the arena and expanding the exhibition halls with the funds they already possess.

That's a good idea.  Cause, if you think about it, the Arena expansion is more of a sure thing.  So, money made from the arena can be put towards Legion Field.

[davidzLA]

When will dome supporters get it?  If Birmingham needs a dome to be a big boy city, it missed that boat already.  Houston is grasping at straws trying to come up with a plan for the Astrodome.  Seattle blew up the Kingdome.  That tide turned back to open-air, sport-specific stadiums already, or retractable roofs.

A renovated Legion Field with a suspended translucent fabric roofing setup strikes me as a much more unique idea as well as cheaper.  Set up a TIRZ and code enforcement to bring some pizazz back to the neighborhood, dedicate some additional attention from city services, sanitation, sidewalk repairs, etc.  Try to get the Alabama Sports Hall of Fame to locate adjacent to the revitalized stadium.  Try to allow for a fútbol configuration if that's even possible.  

Brand it as the "Football Capitol of the South."   Realize that the local future of football is likely UAB, and live with that.  However, it would be great if all parties could grit their teeth and agree on an Iron Bowl program at Legion, but it's not likely with the capacity - but as an irregular game, say every 3 years, it would restore some lost credentials.  Likewise, fill the stadium with non-local teams in one-off events, high school games, soccer.  It needs to be the Rose Bowl of the South - antiquated, but flavorful and unique, a rite of passage to play for any program.

Building a dome today is like stringing telegraph wire in a fiberoptic cable world, or announcing a new 70-store, 5-anchor enclosed mall.  That model is dead.  There's no need to cross it off a list, leapfrog it.  You got lucky!

[aupatt10]

davidzLA, on Oct 6 2006, 08:39 PM, said:

When will dome supporters get it?  If Birmingham needs a dome to be a big boy city, it missed that boat already.  Houston is grasping at straws trying to come up with a plan for the Astrodome.  Seattle blew up the Kingdome.  That tide turned back to open-air, sport-specific stadiums already, or retractable roofs.

A renovated Legion Field with a suspended translucent fabric roofing setup strikes me as a much more unique idea as well as cheaper.  Set up a TIRZ and code enforcement to bring some pizazz back to the neighborhood, dedicate some additional attention from city services, sanitation, sidewalk repairs, etc.  Try to get the Alabama Sports Hall of Fame to locate adjacent to the revitalized stadium.  Try to allow for a fútbol configuration if that's even possible.  

Brand it as the "Football Capitol of the South."   Realize that the local future of football is likely UAB, and live with that.  However, it would be great if all parties could grit their teeth and agree on an Iron Bowl program at Legion, but it's not likely with the capacity - but as an irregular game, say every 3 years, it would restore some lost credentials.  Likewise, fill the stadium with non-local teams in one-off events, high school games, soccer.  It needs to be the Rose Bowl of the South - antiquated, but flavorful and unique, a rite of passage to play for any program.

Building a dome today is like stringing telegraph wire in a fiberoptic cable world, or announcing a new 70-store, 5-anchor enclosed mall.  That model is dead.  There's no need to cross it off a list, leapfrog it.  You got lucky!

Here, here!!

I completely agree.

[davidzLA]

aupatt10, on Oct 6 2006, 07:31 PM, said:

Here, here!!

I completely agree.

Why thank you!  Actually I give a lot of credit to the councilor who brought it up, even if she's not an engineer she can get that idea into play, see what develops.

[aupatt10]

davidzLA, on Oct 7 2006, 11:16 AM, said:

Why thank you!  Actually I give a lot of credit to the councilor who brought it up, even if she's not an engineer she can get that idea into play, see what develops.

Let's hope so, I was almost convinced that the Jeff County Commission and the City of Birmingham had some kind of learning disability.

When are folks going to stop thinking that Larry Langford is some sort of visionary?

[kayman]

aupatt10, on Oct 7 2006, 12:57 PM, said:

Let's hope so, I was almost convinced that the Jeff County Commission and the City of Birmingham had some kind of learning disability.

When are folks going to stop thinking that Larry Langford is some sort of visionary?

It not that he is some type of visionary, it's just the everybody eles except Shelia Smoot and Larry Langford are effing retards with this small-town attitude towards a county with 600,000+ residents.  Those fools needs to be more progressive minded towards moving Jefferson County forward not maintain status quo as usual.  Larry Langford was the perfect fit to shake up the political stagnantation of the Jefferson County Commission, and I hope he runs for Mayor of Birmingham next year so Bernard Kincaid can take his inept ass home.  Birmingham needs more people who are willing to step up to the leadership role, but are capable of cooperating with others like Langford.  He has said consistently that he is willing to work with others if they try to work with him, but it is apparent other than Smoot on the County Commission, and a handful of community leaders nobody else tries to work with him.  That in itself is the problem and not him.

Edited by Leonard23, 07 October 2006 - 12:22 PM.

[Birmingham Bound]

I should be applying some time toward studying but I'm compelled to leave my two cents first:

(1) A dome at Legion Field is asinine. I appluad Smitherman for her efforts and I think her comments will help spark discussions that could possibly lead to a wonderful revitalization campaign for the stadium (and the surrounding neighborhood)... but if there is even a remote iota of a chance of her plan will be implemented I will be the first to lead the drive against it.

(2) Retrofitting Legion Field does nothing to address the lack of convention space which is one of the primary reasons the BJCC is attempting to build the dome in the first place.

(3) Legion Field, honestly, deserves better... There is such a rich history in that facility it is pratically begging for a museum. Reduce the seating capacity, restore the decorative features that have been obscured by aesthetically poor expansions, use the surrounding lawn for well maicured park space (which can be tied into the nearby BSC campus), revitalize the adjacent neighboorhood, turn 8th and Graymont into gorgeous, landscaped boulevards that serve as grand entrances to the stadium... I could go on for days.

(4) Bottom line: we can think of better. Legion Field should mean much more to this city - and this state - than a dome retrofit and new parking deck (which should be underground anyway).

Edited by Birmingham Bound, 08 October 2006 - 05:30 PM.