149 replies to this topic

[cityboi]

jjasonham, on Apr 8 2006, 02:39 PM, said:

That would be absolutely fabulous.  Finally, the Dynamo (women's soccer) would have somewhere professional to play.  Professional soccer would be great.  It is absolutely perfect for the area.  I went to NW Guilford, and they had a great soccer team...they also have a Lacrosse team.  One of only a few in Guilford and Forsyth.  The proximity to the field is perfect.

As a side note, they just announced some National Amateur Golf Tournament will be played at Bryan Park.

I wish they could have some kind of rail service linking the area with WS, GSO, HP downtowns.  Isnt there already some kind of rail service proposed from A & T to Hanes Mall?

yes there is a commuter rail plan in place and it would definatetly link the heart of the Triad with all the downtowns. The A&T to hanes Mall connection will be the first line.

Maybe the Triad can't support the NBA, NHL or major League Baseball but the region can support major league soccer. The sport is insanely popular in the Triad and the region happens to be a fast growing area for hispanics. Soccer or fut'bol is very popular among hispanics. I magine the stadium would be built on the Guilford/Forsyth County Line. Its also great to have a PGA golf course as part of the sports complex. I say make it more than a golf course. Make it a resort like Grandover. Then build an amusement park next to the property.

Edited by cityboi, 08 April 2006 - 03:04 PM.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

I'm sorry, but the notion of building a professional sports arena or stadium outside of downtown is insane.  It is not 1985 anymore.

[cityboi]

Heart of the Triad plan could have $313 million net impact

http://www.bizjourna...tml?jst=b_ln_hl

Its interesting. The proposal includes a heritage museum for (Textiles, Furniture and Tobbaco). Greensboro's PGA event was also mention in the proposal.
The event would be relocated to a new course at the heart of the Triad and would be part of a sports venue district anchored by a major league soccer stadium. The stadium would also be used for state, college (ACC, NCAA) and national soccer tournaments.

The Charette mentions that a resort town center could be a part of the Heart of The Triad and could include time sharing residential housing a conference center, hotels, retail/food/entertainment.

Streetcars were also mentioned as being a possibilty in some of the urban developments proposed for heart of the Triad.

The heart of The Triad would be divided into district (retail/entertainment district, mixed-use district, Sports Venue district, employment district for companies, research and large scale hitech (biotech/nanotech) manufacturing facilities, ect....
The retail district would include a regional mall that would likely be larger than Four Season or Hanes Mall. Also retail villages and recreational retail such as Bass Pro Shop. The planned commuter rail would tie the Heart of The Triad development with the cities of Greensboro and Winston-Salem. A major commuter rail station would be built near the sports venue district.

The heart of the Triad would include an International Technology Center, Combined University Center and specialized State/Federal Facilties.

here is a link to the Charette
http://www.partnc.or...ummaryFinal.pdff]http://www.partnc.or...ummaryFinal.pdf[/url]

Edited by cityboi, 06 December 2006 - 12:36 PM.

[DanRNC]

This will never fly. Who is going to fund all this? The plan seems to focus on generalities and has a "little bit of this and a little bit of that" going on.

[cityboi]

DanRNC, on Dec 6 2006, 02:22 PM, said:

This will never fly. Who is going to fund all this? The plan seems to focus on generalities and has a "little bit of this and a little bit of that" going on.

I think mainly private developers would fund these projects. The only thing I question is the Major League Soccer stadium.

I think its a good plan if done right. I dont think the planners of this project are going to use the suburban sprawl model. Keep in mind, this isn't something thats going to happen over night.

Edited by cityboi, 06 December 2006 - 02:42 PM.

[nowensone]

I agree with that, it does look compact and structured well from the site docs, but the projections of over 100K residents and nearly 150K jobs seem unrealistic, basically building a city from scratch.  Then again, they are doing just this in Arizona and Nevada right now, so not so far fetched I guess, though is not a mentality you really see in NC.

[DanRNC]

The problem is that most of this development requires public money-for federal and state facilities like EPA, MCNC, NCBC, etc. Ok, so you have to beg the feds and state for money for facilities they don't even need but would boost the economy of the Triad-not much of an argument. Next you need money for all the museums, fields, arenas which would most likely come from local taxpayers-more begging there. I don't even understand the point of this proposal-its just a gamish of stuff like I said. Hey nanotech is hot, lets build a nanotech center. Hey biotech is hot, lets build a biotech center. Hey, hot dogs are hot lets build a hot dog factory. There is no strategic plan or viability studies for any of this. Its like, the Triangle opened a China Center, that means we can open a Indian Center. The Triangle has EPA, MCNC, etc. we can open ABC and XYZ-thats the flawed rationale that plagues the simplistic and naive thinking behind this stuff.

[cityboi]

DanRNC, on Dec 6 2006, 03:39 PM, said:

The problem is that most of this development requires public money-for federal and state facilities like EPA, MCNC, NCBC, etc. Ok, so you have to beg the feds and state for money for facilities they don't even need but would boost the economy of the Triad-not much of an argument. Next you need money for all the museums, fields, arenas which would most likely come from local taxpayers-more begging there. I don't even understand the point of this proposal-its just a gamish of stuff like I said. Hey nanotech is hot, lets build a nanotech center. Hey biotech is hot, lets build a biotech center. Hey, hot dogs are hot lets build a hot dog factory. There is no strategic plan or viability studies for any of this. Its like, the Triangle opened a China Center, that means we can open a Indian Center. The Triangle has EPA, MCNC, etc. we can open ABC and XYZ-thats the flawed rationale that plagues the simplistic and naive thinking behind this stuff.

I think the vast majority of this is doable. A few of the proposals seem like pie in the sky like the soccer stadium. But lets keep this in perspective. Much of it is compact mixed-use residential, retail, recreation, entertainment land set aside for companies and industries. That doesnt seem hard for the Triad to swallow, as as long as these things are funded privately. But I agree with the funding for stadiums and things like that. Im not sure where funding would come from for a big league soccer stadium but maybe they'll figure out a way to do it like Greensboro did with its ballpark, I dont know.

here is Toyota Park in Chicago. This is the kind of stadium we would expect to see in the Triad.

Edited by cityboi, 06 December 2006 - 03:04 PM.

[nowensone]

DanRNC, on Dec 6 2006, 03:39 PM, said:

The problem is that most of this development requires public money-for federal and state facilities like EPA, MCNC, NCBC, etc. Ok, so you have to beg the feds and state for money for facilities they don't even need but would boost the economy of the Triad-not much of an argument. Next you need money for all the museums, fields, arenas which would most likely come from local taxpayers-more begging there. I don't even understand the point of this proposal-its just a gamish of stuff like I said. Hey nanotech is hot, lets build a nanotech center. Hey biotech is hot, lets build a biotech center. Hey, hot dogs are hot lets build a hot dog factory. There is no strategic plan or viability studies for any of this. Its like, the Triangle opened a China Center, that means we can open a Indian Center. The Triangle has EPA, MCNC, etc. we can open ABC and XYZ-thats the flawed rationale that plagues the simplistic and naive thinking behind this stuff.

This project may be unrealistic, I don't really know, though I doubt it has anything to do with "Triangle envy", which many of your posts imply in one form or another.  People in the Triad as best as I can tell don't really care about the Triangle in that way, and don't feel that they are competing, likely because up until recently the affluence, numbers, etc. was in the Triad.  Thats not bait, by the way, for an argument or a bunch of comparisons, you guys have had the honors recently, true enough, and did so in NC's early history as well.  Just say that these planners are morons.

Edited by nowensone, 06 December 2006 - 03:01 PM.

[DanRNC]

First off, allusions were made to the Triangle in the charette itself so I won't even go down that road. Second of all, yes, the planners are morons-end of point.

[nowensone]

Allusions is a strong word, the proposal mentions the Triangle in a sinlge sentence out of 18 pages - in respect to partnering with the new North Carolina China Center to attract an international presence to their engineering/technological facilities.  Again, maybe the planners are morons, but the Triad continues to grow at a rate above the national average (if less than CLT and RDU), and therefore grows more to a common center, especially with center towns like Kernersville growing quickly as well.  If this "city" is built piece-meal, it can work, and might help shape future growth better in the area.  One thing I will agree on is that Triad planners are still at least 20 years out-of-date on progressiveness in planning.

The sports aspect of the plan is I believe a remnant of back when The Minnesota twins were considering moving to the Triad (at least pretending to anyway), plans and feasibility studies were done then, and still may be a goal.

Edited by nowensone, 06 December 2006 - 04:03 PM.

[blburton]

I think the proposal read 40K jobs if I'm not mistaken.  Otherwise, I completely agree with your post.  Parts of the proposal are unrealistic.  SAS Stadium is in Cary.  Durham, Greensboro, and W-S all have baseball.  Charlotte has football and basketball.  Regional shopping malls are in both Guilford and Forsyth County, but a new one is planned for southeast Guilford County, not to mention Alamance Crossing opening next year in west Burlington.  Usually you would see these types of proposals closer to city centers in much larger metro areas or you'd see these types of developments in an area like the HOT without the entertainment and sports venues.  Is the end goal to form the HOT into an "edge city"?

I don't expect the project to be started (much less finished completed) within our lifetime unless we see drastic changes in the way city and county leaders (and residents) think.  It's ambitious and I would LOVE to see it happen, but if major corporations, the people, the entertainment, etc aren't flocking now, will they ever?  Come on now.... 100K residents somehow migrating to a ~32 square mile area between GSO, HP, and W-S now currently filled with a smattering of forests, fields, office parks, farms, and residential??

nowensone, on Dec 6 2006, 03:30 PM, said:

I agree with that, it does look compact and structured well from the site docs, but the projections of over 100K residents and nearly 150K jobs seem unrealistic, basically building a city from scratch.  Then again, they are doing just this in Arizona and Nevada right now, so not so far fetched I guess, though is not a mentality you really see in NC.

[transitman]

cityboi, on Dec 6 2006, 04:22 PM, said:

I think mainly private developers would fund these projects. The only thing I question is the Major League Soccer stadium.

I think its a good plan if done right. I dont think the planners of this project are going to use the suburban sprawl model. Keep in mind, this isn't something thats going to happen over night.

There are a handful of people in the Triad who know how to do anything other than sprawl, and they're all working in the downtowns, not on greenfield development.  Instead, the Triad has the moron who wants to build a skyscraper near the PTI flightpath.

There's little mention of transit in this, and most of the area near PTI is already a suburban nightmare.  These bubble diagrams don't impress me.

[TheDash]

If they build a soccer stadium will the team be a called a Winston-Salem team or a Greensboro team??

[DanRNC]

The team would be named the Heart of the Triad (insert name here).

[TheDash]

DanRNC, on Dec 6 2006, 09:30 PM, said:

The team would be named the Heart of the Triad (insert name here).

yeah i seroiusly doubt that

[Jones133]

My reference point is Raleigh....this proposal sounds like RTP with SAS stadium and Four Seasons thrown in the middle and some Meadowmonts (Chapel Hill) thrown in to make people think they are getting some sort of new human scale city.......If I saw a 200 block street grid with transit and proposed  building placement with some urban form, I might be more excited....

[TheDash]

where would the streetcars go too?

[krazeeboi]

TheDash, on Dec 6 2006, 09:23 PM, said:

If they build a soccer stadium will the team be a called a Winston-Salem team or a Greensboro team??

It will be the third "Carolina" team for NC.

[cityboi]

TheDash, on Dec 6 2006, 10:13 PM, said:

where would the streetcars go too?

not quite sure. But if that happens, it will be along time before something like that is put in place. Street lines are extremely expensive to build and there would need to be a way to fund it