20 replies to this topic

[Phizzy]

Rank Statistical Area							   Type	2005 Pop.
   1 Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, IL-IN-WI	CombdSA  9,661,840
   2 Detroit-Warren-Flint, MI					  CombdSA  5,428,000  
   3 Minneapolis-St. Paul-St. Cloud, MN-WI		 CombdSA  3,467,108
   4 Cleveland-Akron-Elyria, OH					CombdSA  2,931,774
   5 St. Louis-St. Charles-Farmington, MO-IL	   CombdSA  2,864,111
   6 Cincinnati-Middletown-Wilmington, OH-KY-IN	CombdSA  2,113,011
   7 Kansas City-Overland Park-Kansas City, MO-KS  CombdSA  2,015,282
   8 Indianapolis-Anderson-Columbus, IN			CombdSA  1,954,063
   9 Columbus-Marion-Chillicothe, OH			   CombdSA  1,936,351
  10 Milwaukee-Racine-Waukesha, WI				 CombdSA  1,708,563
  11 Grand Rapids-Muskegon-Holland, MI			 CombdSA  1,315,319
  12 Dayton-Springfield-Greenville, OH			 CombdSA  1,078,634
  13 Omaha-Council Bluffs-Fremont, NE-IA		   CombdSA	849,248
  14 Toledo-Fremont, OH							CombdSA	718,372
  15 Youngstown-Warren-East Liverpool, OH-PA	   CombdSA	704,096
  16 Wichita-Winfield, KS						  CombdSA	622,353
  17 Madison-Baraboo, WI						   CombdSA	594,785
  18 Des Moines-Newton-Pella, IA				   CombdSA	593,112
  19 Fort Wayne-Huntington-Auburn, IN			  CombdSA	565,606
  20 Lansing-East Lansing-Owosso, MI			   CombdSA	528,260
  21 Rockford-Freeport-Rochelle, IL				CombdSA	441,433
  22 Canton-Massillon, OH						  MetroSA	409,996
  23 Peoria-Canton, IL							 CombdSA	406,869
  24 Springfield, MO							   MetroSA	398,124
  25 Davenport-Moline-Rock Island, IA-IL		   MetroSA	376,309
  26 Appleton-Oshkosh-Neenah, WI				   CombdSA	374,625
  27 Evansville, IN-KY							 MetroSA	349,543
  28 Kalamazoo-Portage, MI						 MetroSA	319,348
  29 South Bend-Mishawaka, IN-MI				   MetroSA	318,156
  30 Saginaw-Bay City-Saginaw Township North, MI   CombdSA	317,385
  31 Green Bay, WI								 MetroSA	297,493
  32 Lincoln, NE								   MetroSA	281,553
  33 Duluth, MN-WI								 MetroSA	275,413
  34 Cedar Rapids, IA							  MetroSA	246,412
  35 Topeka, KS									MetroSA	229,075
  36 Lafayette-Frankfort, IN					   CombdSA	217,431
  37 Champaign-Urbana, IL						  MetroSA	215,742
  38 Fargo-Wahpeton, ND-MN						 CombdSA	208,999
  39 Sioux Falls, SD							   MetroSA	207,918
  40 Springfield, IL							   MetroSA	205,527
  41 Eau Claire-Menomonie, WI					  CombdSA	195,747
  42 Elkhart-Goshen, IN							MetroSA	195,362
  43 Fond du Lac-Beaver Dam, WI					CombdSA	187,440
  44 Lima-Van Wert-Wapakoneta, OH				  CombdSA	182,630
  45 Bloomington, IN							   MetroSA	177,709
  46 Rochester, MN								 MetroSA	176,984
  47 Mansfield-Bucyrus, OH						 CombdSA	173,723
  48 Terre Haute, IN							   MetroSA	168,059
  49 Joplin, MO									MetroSA	166,178
  50 Jackson, MI								   MetroSA	163,629
  51 Niles-Benton Harbor, MI					   MetroSA	162,611
  52 Parkersburg-Marietta-Vienna, WV-OH			MetroSA	162,529
  53 Waterloo-Cedar Falls, IA					  MetroSA	161,897
  54 Wausau-Merrill, WI							CombdSA	159,260
  55 Bloomington-Normal, IL						MetroSA	159,013
  56 Janesville, WI								MetroSA	157,538
  57 Sioux City-Vermillion, IA-NE-SD			   CombdSA	155,566
  58 Ottawa-Streator, IL						   MetroSA	154,028
  59 Columbia, MO								  MetroSA	153,283
  60 Wheeling, WV-OH							   MetroSA	148,677
  61 Jefferson City, MO							MetroSA	143,867
  62 Traverse City, MI							 MicroSA	141,011
  63 Battle Creek, MI							  MetroSA	139,191
  64 Iowa City, IA								 MetroSA	138,524
  65 Kokomo-Peru, IN							   CombdSA	136,982
  66 Cape Girardeau-Sikeston-Jackson, MO-IL		CombdSA	133,556
  67 Findlay-Tiffin, OH							CombdSA	130,986
  68 La Crosse, WI-MN							  MetroSA	128,899
  69 Weirton-Steubenville, WV-OH				   MetroSA	126,464
  70 St. Joseph, MO-KS							 MetroSA	121,961
  71 Rapid City, SD								MetroSA	118,203
  2 Muncie, IN									MetroSA	116,362
  73 Sheboygan, WI								 MetroSA	114,610
  74 Wooster, OH								   MicroSA	113,697
  75 Decatur, IL								   MetroSA	110,167
  76 Ames-Boone, IA								CombdSA	106,554
  77 Manhattan, KS								 MicroSA	106,540
  78 Lawrence, KS								  MetroSA	102,914
  79 Adrian, MI									MicroSA	102,033
  80 Whitewater, WI								MicroSA	 99,844
  81 Bismarck, ND								  MetroSA	 99,346
  82 Grand Forks, ND-MN							MetroSA	 97,073
  83 New Philadelphia-Dover, OH					MicroSA	 91,944
  84 Dubuque, IA								   MetroSA	 91,631
  85 Mankato-North Mankato, MN					 MicroSA	 88,878
  86 Brainerd, MN								  MicroSA	 88,827
  87 Zanesville, OH								MicroSA	 85,579
  88 Midland, MI								   MicroSA	 84,064
  89 Danville, IL								  MetroSA	 82,344
  90 Manitowoc, WI								 MicroSA	 81,949
  91 Watertown-Fort Atkinson, WI				   MicroSA	 79,328
  92 Sandusky, OH								  MetroSA	 78,665
  93 Quincy, IL-MO								 MetroSA	 77,226
  94 Portsmouth, OH								MicroSA	 76,561
  95 Warsaw, IN									MicroSA	 76,072
  96 Marshfield-Wisconsin Rapids, WI			   MicroSA	 75,234
  97 Branson, MO								   MicroSA	 73,916
  98 Galesburg, IL								 MicroSA	 70,867
  99 Marion, IN									MicroSA	 70,557
 100 Grand Island, NE							  MicroSA	 69,878
 101 Richmond, IN								  MicroSA	 69,192
 102 Marinette, WI-MI							  MicroSA	 68,402
 103 Stevens Point, WI							 MicroSA	 67,585
 104 Mount Pleasant, MI							MicroSA	 65,618
 105 Marquette, MI								 MicroSA	 64,760
 106 Minot, ND									 MicroSA	 63,700
 107 Marion-Herrin, IL							 MicroSA	 63,617
 108 Hutchinson, KS								MicroSA	 63,558
 109 Sturgis, MI								   MicroSA	 62,984
 110 Athens, OH									MicroSA	 62,062
 111 Charleston-Mattoon, IL						MicroSA	 62,038
 112 Norwalk, OH								   MicroSA	 60,385
 113 Salina, KS									MicroSA	 60,042
 114 Sterling, IL								  MicroSA	 59,863
 115 Carbondale, IL								MicroSA	 57,954
 116 Fergus Falls, MN							  MicroSA	 57,658
 117 Point Pleasant, WV-OH						 MicroSA	 57,123
 118 Muscatine, IA								 MicroSA	 54,598
 119 Ashland, OH								   MicroSA	 54,123
 120 Jasper, IN									MicroSA	 53,624
 121 Mason City, IA								MicroSA	 52,413
 122 Kearney, NE								   MicroSA	 50,346
 123 Clinton, IA								   MicroSA	 49,717
 124 Platteville, WI							   MicroSA	 49,671
 125 Norfolk, NE								   MicroSA	 49,622
 126 Winona, MN									MicroSA	 49,276
 127 Burlington, IA-IL							 MicroSA	 48,782
 128 Sidney, OH									MicroSA	 48,736
 129 Mount Vernon, IL							  MicroSA	 48,735
 130 Marshall, MO								  MicroSA	 47,547
 131 Cadillac, MI								  MicroSA	 47,175
 132 Plymouth, IN								  MicroSA	 46,945
 133 Bellefontaine, OH							 MicroSA	 46,580
 134 Coldwater, MI								 MicroSA	 46,460
 135 Bedford, IN								   MicroSA	 46,403
 136 Fort Leonard Wood, MO						 MicroSA	 44,187
 137 Fort Madison-Keokuk, IA-MO					MicroSA	 44,028
 138 Bemidji, MN								   MicroSA	 42,871
 139 Big Rapids, MI								MicroSA	 42,391
 140 Alma, MI									  MicroSA	 42,345
 141 Seymour, IN								   MicroSA	 42,237
 142 Rolla, MO									 MicroSA	 42,125
 143 Poplar Bluff, MO							  MicroSA	 41,338
 144 Celina, OH									MicroSA	 41,202
 145 Willmar, MN								   MicroSA	 41,199
 146 Jacksonville, IL							  MicroSA	 41,134
 147 Cambridge, OH								 MicroSA	 41,123
 148 Centralia, IL								 MicroSA	 40,144
 149 Logansport, IN								MicroSA	 40,130
 150 Sedalia, MO								   MicroSA	 40,121
 151 Hastings, NE								  MicroSA	 39,803
 152 Marshalltown, IA							  MicroSA	 39,418
 153 Pontiac, IL								   MicroSA	 39,186
 154 Defiance, OH								  MicroSA	 39,112
 155 Fort Dodge, IA								MicroSA	 39,003
 156 Garden City, KS							   MicroSA	 38,988
 157 Aberdeen, SD								  MicroSA	 38,818
 158 Austin, MN									MicroSA	 38,799
 159 Sault Ste. Marie, MI						  MicroSA	 38,780
 160 Emporia, KS								   MicroSA	 38,690
 161 West Plains, MO							   MicroSA	 38,400
 162 Vincennes, IN								 MicroSA	 38,366
 163 Escanaba, MI								  MicroSA	 38,347
 164 Crawfordsville, IN							MicroSA	 38,239
 165 Pittsburg, KS								 MicroSA	 38,222
 166 Hannibal, MO								  MicroSA	 38,136
 167 Houghton, MI								  MicroSA	 37,900
 168 Scottsbluff, NE							   MicroSA	 37,485
 169 Coshocton, OH								 MicroSA	 36,945
 170 North Platte, NE							  MicroSA	 36,883
 171 Ottumwa, IA								   MicroSA	 35,965
 172 Owatonna, MN								  MicroSA	 35,755
 173 Dixon, IL									 MicroSA	 35,669
 174 Taylorville, IL							   MicroSA	 35,176
 175 Monroe, WI									MicroSA	 35,165
 176 Alexandria, MN								MicroSA	 35,138
 177 Effingham, IL								 MicroSA	 34,581
 178 Coffeyville, KS							   MicroSA	 34,570
 179 Lebanon, MO								   MicroSA	 34,492
 180 Wabash, IN									MicroSA	 33,843
 181 Angola, IN									MicroSA	 33,773
 182 Dodge City, KS								MicroSA	 33,751
 183 Iron Mountain, MI-WI						  MicroSA	 33,006
 184 Kennett, MO								   MicroSA	 32,545
 185 Madison, IN								   MicroSA	 32,430
 186 Macomb, IL									MicroSA	 31,966
 187 Albert Lea, MN								MicroSA	 31,946
 188 Watertown, SD								 MicroSA	 31,717
 189 Columbus, NE								  MicroSA	 31,262
 190 Lincoln, IL								   MicroSA	 30,603
 191 Washington, IN								MicroSA	 30,466
 192 Alpena, MI									MicroSA	 30,428
 193 McPherson, KS								 MicroSA	 29,523
 194 Kirksville, MO								MicroSA	 28,817
 195 Brookings, SD								 MicroSA	 28,121
 196 Great Bend, KS								MicroSA	 28,105
 197 Hays, KS									  MicroSA	 26,767
 198 Lexington, NE								 MicroSA	 26,637
 199 New Ulm, MN								   MicroSA	 26,534
 200 Harrisburg, IL								MicroSA	 26,072
 201 Mexico, MO									MicroSA	 25,759
 202 Moberly, MO								   MicroSA	 25,336
 203 Greensburg, IN								MicroSA	 25,184
 204 Connersville, IN							  MicroSA	 24,885
 205 Beatrice, NE								  MicroSA	 23,306
 206 Liberal, KS								   MicroSA	 23,274
 207 Dickinson, ND								 MicroSA	 22,886
 208 Mitchell, SD								  MicroSA	 22,524
 209 Spearfish, SD								 MicroSA	 22,395
 210 Oskaloosa, IA								 MicroSA	 22,364
 211 Parsons, KS								   MicroSA	 22,169
 212 Yankton, SD								   MicroSA	 21,718
 213 Maryville, MO								 MicroSA	 21,710
 214 Fairmont, MN								  MicroSA	 21,002
 215 Jamestown, ND								 MicroSA	 20,835
 216 Worthington, MN							   MicroSA	 20,508
 217 Storm Lake, IA								MicroSA	 20,151
 218 Pierre, SD									MicroSA	 19,704
 219 Williston, ND								 MicroSA	 19,282
 220 Spencer, IA								   MicroSA	 16,897
 221 Spirit Lake, IA							   MicroSA	 16,687
 222 Huron, SD									 MicroSA	 15,896

[Puant en la Baye]

Phizzy, on Apr 11 2006, 12:05 PM, said:

Rank Statistical Area							   Type	2005 Pop.
  26 Appleton-Oshkosh-Neenah, WI				   CombdSA	374,625
  31 Green Bay, WI								 MetroSA	297,493

I don't understand why Green Bay isn't combined with Appleton-Oshkosh-Neenah. (all together are called the "Fox Cities").

There's like a 20 minute drive between GB and Appeton, and the urbanized areas are pretty much continuous.

Combined, the MSA would put us at about #16 on this list (672,118).

Someday, maybe?

[hudkina]

I doubt it.  Appleton and Oskosh would have to merge MSAs before Green Bay's commuter numbers would even begin to approach a possible CSA.  But even if the two combined the Green Bay MSA would still only have an exchange percentage of about 8.5%.  It needs to be double that to be included in a CSA.

On the other hand, the Fond du Lac MSA would be very close to joining a combined Appleton-Oshkosh in a CSA.  The exchange percentage is 14.7%, which is just below the 15% needed to join a CSA.  Also, Waupaca County's commuter rate would jump to nearly 24% (just below the 25% needed to be included in an MSA) if Appleton and Oshkosh shared an MSA.

So, if Appleton and Oshkosh combined by 2010, you might see an Appleton-Oshkosh-Neenah MSA with a population of 445,000 and an Appleton-Oshkosh-Fond du Lac CSA with a population of 546,000.

Edited by hudkina, 04 November 2006 - 11:03 PM.

[Puant en la Baye]

The Gren Bay and Appleton  exchange percentage is only 8.5%?  Who figures this & how?   Living here, I would guess that percentage is much higher.  

We do all share media coverage.  Doesn't that factor into it also?

Edited by Puant en la Baye, 05 November 2006 - 08:38 AM.

[hudkina]

Only two things are figured when defining MSAs and CSAs, urban areas and commuter exchange rates.  Media coverage and anything else has nothing to do with MSAs.  Also, as far as commuter exchange rates go, the numbers are collected and tabulated by the Census Bureau.

[kcpimp]

Interesting. I would have thought KC was much higher given the reduction of blight

My hometown of Rolla made the list.

Rolla is your typical Midwestern town, and on that note I suppose Missoura is your typical Midwestern state, huh?

[slyder1]

I bet that Springfield and Branson will become a CSA or whatever it means.  I don't know what the exchange rate is but I would imagine that it is fairly good for a metro Springfield's size.  Plus if you factor the way this area is growing, especially Branson, I could see it within 10-15 years.

[Snowguy716]

WOOOHOO!

Bemidji at 138 with nearly 43,000 people!  This is really interesting, considering that the sign when you enter the city says 11,917.

[slyder1]

Snowguy716, on Nov 11 2006, 05:42 PM, said:

WOOOHOO!

Bemidji at 138 with nearly 43,000 people!  This is really interesting, considering that the sign when you enter the city says 11,917.

The 11,000 number that your talking about is the actual population within the city limits.....the 43,000 is what the county or two county area is, to which is why it is called a Micropolitan Area instead of a Metropolitan Area.

[Snowguy716]

lol,

I know.. but thanks.

People always say "Bemidji only has 12,000 people?" or people will say 12,000 when asked.. there are 42,000 in our MSA, 32,000 in our school district, and 120,000 people in our retail draw area...

[dtown]

I didnt know that Flint Metro was combined with metro Detroit. In that case, cool, im at #2.

[Snowguy716]

MSA's are misleading.  St. Cloud is really in no way connected to the Twin Cities.  It is its own economy and is a full 75 miles away from Minneapolis.

But you can still compare them because almost all of the metro areas on here include outlying areas.

[hudkina]

The reason St. Cloud is included with the CSA is because it just barely made the 15% cutoff.  The commuter exchange rate is 15.2%  The reality is that St. Cloud and Minneapolis have a very small commuter exchange rate, but Sherburne County which sends most of its commuters to Minneapolis sends just enough of its commuters to the St. Cloud MSA to barely push the number over the 15% range.  If Sherburn County was split into an eastern half and a western half, St. Cloud wouldn't even come close to being included in the Minneapolis CSA.

Compare that to Red Wing which has a 36% commuter exchange rate with Minneapolis or Faribault which has a 31% commuter exchange rate with Minneapolis or Hutchinson which has a 30% commuter exchange rate with Minneapolis.

In the Detroit CSA Ann Arbor has a 42% commuter exchange rate with Detroit, Monroe has a 31% commuter exchange rate with Detroit, and even Flint which is 70 miles from Detroit has a 26% commuter exchange with Detroit.

So you can see that with just 15% St. Cloud, while technically in the Minneapolis CSA, really doesn't have the same type of connection that the other MSAs have with their larger neighbors.

Edited by hudkina, 05 December 2006 - 01:01 PM.

[SkyDave]

hudkina, on Dec 5 2006, 02:56 PM, said:

So you can see that with just 15% St. Cloud, while technically in the Minneapolis CSA, really doesn't have the same type of connection that the other MSAs have with their larger neighbors.

How is this commuter exchange rate configured. Where can you find such rates for other cities????

[hudkina]

http://www.census.go.../commuting.html

The way you determine the commuter exchange rate between two adjacent MSAs is combine the percentage of users who commute from the smaller MSA to the larger MSA with the percentage of workers who live in the larger MSA and commute to the smaller MSA.

For example, if 11% of the workers of the smaller metro commute to the larger metro, and 7% of the workforce in the smaller metro are residents from the larger metro, then the commuter exchange rate is 18%.  When that number is between 15% and 25%, local opinion (in the form of local delegates or politicians) of the smaller metro can determine whether or not they want to join the larger CSA.  IF the number is 25% or more the two metros are automatically combined.

Edited by hudkina, 02 June 2007 - 07:48 PM.

[slyder1]

How do you determine the exchange rate from one mtero to another?  I would likt to know what the exchange rate is between Springfield, MO and Branson, MO.  Can someone help me out here?

[hudkina]

2,957 of the 30,198 workers who live in the Branson MSA work in the Springfield MSA, which is 9.8% of the workforce.  1,791 of the 29,136 workers who work in the Branson MSA live in the Springfield MSA., which is 6.1% of the workforce.  When you add those two numbers together you get 15.9%, which is above the 15% minimum to be considered.  However, since that number is below 25%, local deligates had the choice in whether both metros should be combined into a CSA.  Obviously, deligates from one or both of the metros decided not to be combined into a larger CSA.

If they had decided the two MSAs should combine into a larger CSA, it would have ranked 68th on the list of 121 CSAs ahead of the Reno CSA, but behind the Johnson City CSA.  Granted, it would probably rank lower if all the other possible CSAs had been approved as well.  It should also be noted that the list is only of CSAs, and doesn't include possible MSAs that have a larger population than a combined Springfield/Branson CSA would have.

Edited by hudkina, 08 June 2007 - 09:57 PM.

[slyder1]

hudkina, on Jun 8 2007, 10:53 PM, said:

2,957 of the 30,198 workers who live in the Branson MSA work in the Springfield MSA, which is 9.8% of the workforce.  1,791 of the 29,136 workers who work in the Branson MSA live in the Springfield MSA., which is 6.1% of the workforce.  When you add those two numbers together you get 15.9%, which is above the 15% minimum to be considered.  However, since that number is below 25%, local deligates had the choice in whether both metros should be combined into a CSA.  Obviously, deligates from one or both of the metros decided not to be combined into a larger CSA.

If they had decided the two MSAs should combine into a larger CSA, it would have ranked 68th on the list of 121 CSAs ahead of the Reno CSA, but behind the Johnson City CSA.  Granted, it would probably rank lower if all the other possible CSAs had been approved as well.  It should also be noted that the list is only of CSAs, and doesn't include possible MSAs that have a larger population than a combined Springfield/Branson CSA would have.

hey thanks for that info.  I wonder why Branson decided not to join the Springfield MSA.  Wouldn't the combined Springfield Branson MSA get more federal funding from the population increase which would in return help out Branson?  Oh well, its not like it would add a whole lot of people anyway only about 80,000.

[hudkina]

I'm not sure why some politcians opt for the combination while others do not.  In Michigan, the Midland MSA opted not to join into a CSAwith the Saginaw MSA while the Bay City MSA did.  I'm willing to guess it has to do with Saginaw's high crime rate and low public image, but I doubt that's the same case as far as Branson is concerned.  My guess is that because Branson has such a high national image for being such a small metro, they didn't want to be viewed as being a "suburb" of Springfield.

Edited by hudkina, 18 June 2007 - 10:01 AM.

[Rybak 187]

Is Hemlock in the Saginaw/Bay City CSA? If it is, maybe with the Hemlock Semiconductor expansion will increase the amount of cross traffic between Bay/Sag CSA and Midland MSA and force Midland in.