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Westin on Lower Broad


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#841 Nashvegas06

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 07:58 AM

Maybe they need to rethink they Metro Council. They seem more interested in getting headlines on English only crap and sound bites about schools than addressing important city issues. I feel the problem is that maybe the Metro Council time has come and gone. Example, why should council members from Belle Meade and Green Hills be deciding development in Nashville's CBD? Isn't it time for a Nashville CBD Council?

 

#842 producer2

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 08:16 AM

If the Westin does indeed back out, there may be another hotel to come in, but at last count there were close to 50,000+ hotel rooms in Davidson County. How many new hotels do we need?


What is going to support the new conventin center?

#843 JGarrison

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 02:07 PM

Maybe they need to rethink they Metro Council. They seem more interested in getting headlines on English only crap and sound bites about schools than addressing important city issues. I feel the problem is that maybe the Metro Council time has come and gone. Example, why should council members from Belle Meade and Green Hills be deciding development in Nashville's CBD? Isn't it time for a Nashville CBD Council?


Last I checked Eric Crafton was the only councilmember fussing about the English only crap....

#844 Nashvegas06

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 05:59 AM

Your correct, I guess that is the biggest issue going on in his district. lol
My point is that metro members can vote on zoning issues that have no impact in their districts. I understand there are tax issues that effect the metro budget but how does a buildings height effect Green Hills and etc?

#845 Hankster

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 08:34 AM

If we've lost the Westin, I would put the biggest blame on the Sounds deals falling apart. I'm thinking the Westin wanted to have that very, very important project up and moving before investing in Nashville. If I'm right then the blame extends to the Sounds, to SBER, the Council, and especially to Purcell. This entire turn of events in the lower Broadway area is incredibly disturbing to me and leaves a terribly bad taste in my mouth. :sick:

#846 Kheldane

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 02:05 PM

Yes itís on the map but not due to any action by the Metro Council. It happened on its own.


That's the best way to get on the map!! If the stupid metro government would just sell that lot at auction I guarantee something would get built there immediately. Put that money towards schools or police.

#847 MTSUBlueraider86

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 07:28 PM

Well the whole Sounds/SBER/Westin debacle is just an example of over cautious Nashville..again! The Metro Council has been a constant disappointment, and state legislators like Thelma Harper who refused to vote on the Jack Daniels store and restuarant in the old Acme Feed Store building on 1st and Broad because she was not consulted first was another example of politics (and new hats) first.

We consistently elect people in local and state government that are simply not qualified. Our new non smoking bill is meaningless because you can still smoke anywhere alcohol is served. No smoking in the workplace is meaningless by the way it is worded. We are one of the few states that still allows indoor smoking. So how is it a surprise that all of these Sobro projects are falling through? We won't see a new convention center either since Gaylord is expanding. Face it, Downtown Nashville will not be much better if ALL of these projects are not built. People will not want to live downtown if there is nothing to do...hence, more expansion in the suburbs like Nashville West, another reason not to build a shopping area downtown.

I love the Pinnacle starting this week, but unfortunately it is an 8-5 building. Signature/Kimpton Hotel is an overpriced hotel and the condo's are for the mega rich. We need a downtown development for the average Nashvillian, and with no baseball park, the Predators leaving, and most likely no new multi use buildings like a convention center, why go downtown unless you like Honky Tonks, the Symphony (if you can afford it), or Titans football?

Urbnanists like us will, but your average working Nashvillian does not go to TPAC, the Symphony, The Ryman or any of the "high brow" events.

#848 producer2

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 07:56 PM

Well the whole Sounds/SBER/Westin debacle is just an example of over cautious Nashville..again! The Metro Council has been a constant disappointment, and state legislators like Thelma Harper who refused to vote on the Jack Daniels store and restuarant in the old Acme Feed Store building on 1st and Broad because she was not consulted first was another example of politics (and new hats) first.

We consistently elect people in local and state government that are simply not qualified. Our new non smoking bill is meaningless because you can still smoke anywhere alcohol is served. No smoking in the workplace is meaningless by the way it is worded. We are one of the few states that still allows indoor smoking. So how is it a surprise that all of these Sobro projects are falling through? We won't see a new convention center either since Gaylord is expanding. Face it, Downtown Nashville will not be much better if ALL of these projects are not built. People will not want to live downtown if there is nothing to do...hence, more expansion in the suburbs like Nashville West, another reason not to build a shopping area downtown.

I love the Pinnacle starting this week, but unfortunately it is an 8-5 building. Signature/Kimpton Hotel is an overpriced hotel and the condo's are for the mega rich. We need a downtown development for the average Nashvillian, and with no baseball park, the Predators leaving, and most likely no new multi use buildings like a convention center, why go downtown unless you like Honky Tonks, the Symphony (if you can afford it), or Titans football?

Urbnanists like us will, but your average working Nashvillian does not go to TPAC, the Symphony, The Ryman or any of the "high brow" events.


Would you like to wager on some of your predictions? Seems to me some people reported that the Intercontinental deal was also not going to happen as well as WES, etc. I am not sure where you are getting all of your info but I bet my sources are as good as yours and I will challenge you that there will be a hotel on the Westin site AND a convention center. Westin could care less about the Sounds, that is not their market. Can you give us some concrete evidence of these projects going away?

#849 MTSUBlueraider86

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 08:16 PM

As I mentioned Leo Waters told a work collegue that Westin was out, and Ann Roberts and I had a long discussion about Sobro and how she feels the same way. Her co-worker, Phil Ryan, who works on the zoning for redevelopment districts has mentioned that some of the redevelopment district lines do not make sense and they are looking into that. I invited her and Phil to our next meeting.

One of the sales Vice Presidents for Loews Corporation had serious doubts about the Intercontinental as did a General Manager of Marriott who said the CEO of Intercontinental told him there was no contract, only a Memorandum of Understanding. That is why some still doubt Palmer is actually doing anything at all.


A media person told me this week that SBER was going very slow, and Sage Hospitality and the Barber Group mentioned publically that they wanted to be "where the action was" in reference to Lower broadway, the Sounds and the Predators. Ann Roberts confirmed that NO condos had been sold for the Westin project, and condo sales were contingent on the project being built.

She did say Sage will be taking measurements this week for the street level retail remodel and expansion, but will a new hotel approve them? If Westin is still the hotel component, how come we have heard nothing from them in 3 months?

It will be interesting to see if there is a new hotel, will they want LEED certification? Do they want Condo's? Do they want to be near Lower Broadway? Do they want to try to get approval from MDHA Design and Review Committee? Do they want the structural and architectural restrictions? It will not be easy for another hotel to come on board.

How come SBER are taking so long with Rolling Mill Hill? How come we have not seen any updated Convention Center Plans? How come there has been no news on property aquisition?

I have followed the built environment approxiamately 27 years in Nashville and the MAJORITY of proposals never got built, including mixed use and public buildings. I guess I am just very skeptical until I see a crane erected.

#850 producer2

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 09:26 PM

So you have no real basis for your comments other than you don't believe they will happen. That is fine but it is a far cry from having hard facts that these projects no longer or will not exist. Is there one mayoral candidate that has come out and said thhey do not want a new convention center? Did Sage go through all of that angst and purchase the space to just dump the project 60 days later? Or is this sensationalism?

#851 titanhog

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 10:45 PM

As I mentioned Leo Waters told a work collegue that Westin was out, and Ann Roberts and I had a long discussion about Sobro and how she feels the same way. Her co-worker, Phil Ryan, who works on the zoning for redevelopment districts has mentioned that some of the redevelopment district lines do not make sense and they are looking into that. I invited her and Phil to our next meeting.

One of the sales Vice Presidents for Loews Corporation had serious doubts about the Intercontinental as did a General Manager of Marriott who said the CEO of Intercontinental told him there was no contract, only a Memorandum of Understanding. That is why some still doubt Palmer is actually doing anything at all.
A media person told me this week that SBER was going very slow, and Sage Hospitality and the Barber Group mentioned publically that they wanted to be "where the action was" in reference to Lower broadway, the Sounds and the Predators. Ann Roberts confirmed that NO condos had been sold for the Westin project, and condo sales were contingent on the project being built.

She did say Sage will be taking measurements this week for the street level retail remodel and expansion, but will a new hotel approve them? If Westin is still the hotel component, how come we have heard nothing from them in 3 months?

It will be interesting to see if there is a new hotel, will they want LEED certification? Do they want Condo's? Do they want to be near Lower Broadway? Do they want to try to get approval from MDHA Design and Review Committee? Do they want the structural and architectural restrictions? It will not be easy for another hotel to come on board.

How come SBER are taking so long with Rolling Mill Hill? How come we have not seen any updated Convention Center Plans? How come there has been no news on property aquisition?

I have followed the built environment approxiamately 27 years in Nashville and the MAJORITY of proposals never got built, including mixed use and public buildings. I guess I am just very skeptical until I see a crane erected.



As hard as everyone on the Barber Group fought to get the Westin project approved, it's really difficult to believe it would unravel now.

#852 ATLBrain

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 02:50 PM

Trust me... it's a whole lot easier to walk away from "sunk" costs than it is to keep "sinking" costs into a project whose metrics have changed dramatically in the past 3 months.

#853 producer2

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 03:15 PM

As I mentioned Leo Waters told a work collegue that Westin was out, and Ann Roberts and I had a long discussion about Sobro and how she feels the same way. Her co-worker, Phil Ryan, who works on the zoning for redevelopment districts has mentioned that some of the redevelopment district lines do not make sense and they are looking into that. I invited her and Phil to our next meeting.


Heresay and it is already approved so what are they fighting?

"One of the sales Vice Presidents for Loews Corporation had serious doubts about the Intercontinental as did a General Manager of Marriott who said the CEO of Intercontinental told him there was no contract, only a Memorandum of Understanding. That is why some still doubt Palmer is actually doing anything at all.
A media person told me this week that SBER was going very slow, and Sage Hospitality and the Barber Group mentioned publically that they wanted to be "where the action was" in reference to Lower broadway, the Sounds and the Predators. Ann Roberts confirmed that NO condos had been sold for the Westin project, and condo sales were contingent on the project being built."

Your trademark plastered on a big billboard is a pretty big memo of understanding, not many corporations will allow that unless they plan to participate. No condos are for sale to my knowledge so that is probably why none have been sold.

"She did say Sage will be taking measurements this week for the street level retail remodel and expansion, but will a new hotel approve them? If Westin is still the hotel component, how come we have heard nothing from them in 3 months?"
Guess they needed some measurements

"It will be interesting to see if there is a new hotel, will they want LEED certification? Do they want Condo's? Do they want to be near Lower Broadway? Do they want to try to get approval from MDHA Design and Review Committee? Do they want the structural and architectural restrictions? It will not be easy for another hotel to come on board."
Sage IS the hotel arm of the deal so I guess if they are taking meaurements then it all must be good

"How come SBER are taking so long with Rolling Mill Hill? How come we have not seen any updated Convention Center Plans? How come there has been no news on property aquisition?"

Taking so long for what? They are moving at their projected pace and sales are good. Are there plans for the new center? Don't they have to go through an approval process first? We know the size and scope because the city is talking pre-sell with many potential clients, we suspect they will try and get the council to vote on the new tax portion recently passed by the State Legislature before the election and save the passage of the actual building and design to the next group. Since no mayoral candidate has really come out against the facility I would have a reasonable assumption that it would pass.

I have followed the built environment approxiamately 27 years in Nashville and the MAJORITY of proposals never got built, including mixed use and public buildings. I guess I am just very skeptical until I see a crane erected.

I appreciate your concerns but with all of the movement happening in the last few years I think the first 20+ years can get thrown out as it seems the majority of projects over the past 5 years are getting developed.

#854 MTSUBlueraider86

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 06:17 PM

Well, I will point out that I never quoted Leo Waters personnaly. He denies saying anything about the Westin, I was just positing what a friend of his told me he said about the project. Therefore, the quote or comment from Leo Waters is based on what his friend told me.

I did not mean to put words in Leo's mouth, but in the future if he has any information he does not want published on the internet, he probably should not say anything to anyone that may tell someone else.

#855 MTSUBlueraider86

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 06:21 PM

Producer2, all this is just for debate please do not take it so seriously or with strict conviction, but I wonder why things are so slow at getting these projects underway here in Nashville when other cities like Charlotte, Atlanta, Dallas, and Seattle build with so much less hesitation. Other cities seem to plug right along whereas Nashville has to second and third guess everything.

#856 MTSUBlueraider86

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 09:07 PM

It also would not suprise me if the man who spoke to me confused the "W" with the Westin. It has happened before.

#857 producer2

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 07:52 AM

Producer2, all this is just for debate please do not take it so seriously or with strict conviction, but I wonder why things are so slow at getting these projects underway here in Nashville when other cities like Charlotte, Atlanta, Dallas, and Seattle build with so much less hesitation. Other cities seem to plug right along whereas Nashville has to second and third guess everything.


The passing of legislation and the debate over development ofbuildings is part of the local news everyday. I personally see no need to add fuel to a fire that does not exsist. There is no further debate over the Westin, it is over and will start demolition shortly. Many on this forum cry out for the hesitation you are questioning in order to have debate over the issues at hand. I am on record as wanting things to move swiftly, but I am not always correct.

#858 prguy

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 08:25 AM

hello folks.
I've had a conversation with Brandon Rains this morning. He assures me the Westin is on track, with all partners still on board. I think we might look for groundbreaking in late fall.

prguy

#859 nashvol85

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 08:42 AM

I don't get all this back-and-forth bickering about whether or not all of these projects are a go or are dead...the only people who really know that are the developers and the contractors....

We can speculate all we want about this, but I would prefer to remain optimistic. Until the developer officially claims the project to be dead or until ground is broken, we should just relax...there is no redeeming value in pure speculation. Lets just hope at least some of these get off the ground.

#860 Skyscrapergeek

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 10:11 AM

nashvol, very well said. :thumbsup: Speculation can be fun but we do it at our own risk. Risk, meaning stress and frustration.