30 replies to this topic

[MikeR]

BJE, on May 26 2006, 09:52 AM, said:

Based on what I'm reading here, I may have underestimated the Bristol - Providence commute.
BJE

It's not that bad if you know how to get around it.  Most Bristol commuters go across Gooding Ave to Metacom Ave and then take Rt. 136 to the end and jump on I-195 via Exit 2 in Swansea.  I've detoured that way before and it's not that terrible.  Also, some East Bay commuters sneak through Hampton Meadows in Barrington to avoid downtown traffic and jump on the Wampanoag Trail by the High school after crossing the bridge near Hundred Acre Cove.

[yossarian]

BJE, on May 26 2006, 09:52 AM, said:

So, back to PPS...What determines which school a child goes to? Is it strictly geography (i.e. district boundaries) It seems there are other options, like the Advanced Acedmic programs for ES / MS kids, and Classical High School also appears to be a more demanding (and selective) school...

Lots to think about.

BJE

Classical is a city-wide exam school and its students score as well those of affluent suburbs like Barrington on statewide standardized "acheivement" tests.  There is also a gifted and talented program at one of Providence's middle schools, but I cannot recall which one.  The elementary schools are generally neighborhood dependent.  I live in Elmhurst.  If I had kids they would go to RFK, which is supposed to be pretty well regarded.  There are also a number of parochial schools with relatively modest tuitions.


Since you are reconsidering Providence, I'll put in my 2 cents for Elmhurst.  Based on your requirements the Cons would be lack of walkability to destinations.  From where I live, I can walk to a number of errand type places - there is a corner market, dry cleaner, liqour store, lunch spot, a bakery/cafe, a park.  But that's it.  There aren't any sit down restaurants or bars within an easy walk (i.e. sub ten minutes).   There is no city center or downtown to speak of.  The places I mentioned are located on very small commercial strips along Smith St. at a few intersections.

On the plus side you are a 5-10 minute drive from downtown providence depeding on traffic, and therefore 5-10 minutes from plenty of great restaurants and bars.  The neighborhood is quiet and safe; much less crime than the east side.  It is also, and I use this in the relative sense, affordable.  Houses range from mid 200s and to the low 300s.  Dowtown is also easily accessible by public transit.  Finally, there is a strong sense of community, with lots of folks with very deep roots in the neighborhood.

[runawayjim]

yossarian, on May 31 2006, 04:59 PM, said:

Classical is a city-wide exam school and its students score as well those of affluent suburbs like Barrington on statewide standardized "acheivement" tests.  There is also a gifted and talented program at one of Providence's middle schools, but I cannot recall which one.  The elementary schools are generally neighborhood dependent.  I live in Elmhurst.  If I had kids they would go to RFK, which is supposed to be pretty well regarded.  There are also a number of parochial schools with relatively modest tuitions.
Since you are reconsidering Providence, I'll put in my 2 cents for Elmhurst.  Based on your requirements the Cons would be lack of walkability to destinations.  From where I live, I can walk to a number of errand type places - there is a corner market, dry cleaner, liqour store, lunch spot, a bakery/cafe, a park.  But that's it.  There aren't any sit down restaurants or bars within an easy walk (i.e. sub ten minutes).   There is no city center or downtown to speak of.  The places I mentioned are located on very small commercial strips along Smith St. at a few intersections.

On the plus side you are a 5-10 minute drive from downtown providence depeding on traffic, and therefore 5-10 minutes from plenty of great restaurants and bars.  The neighborhood is quiet and safe; much less crime than the east side.  It is also, and I use this in the relative sense, affordable.  Houses range from mid 200s and to the low 300s.  Dowtown is also easily accessible by public transit.  Finally, there is a strong sense of community, with lots of folks with very deep roots in the neighborhood.

i'll second elmhurst.  there's actually a bit more if you're willing to walk a bit farther (it'll be rare for you to be able to step outof your door and be right next to something, but a 10-15 min walk will land you with a lot of options).  there's not much centrally in elmhurst, but on either side of it you've got liquor stores, bakeries (good ones too), bars, places for lunch, pizza, corner stores, delis.  you walk a little farther and you've got a little more in the wanskuck area at the intersection of admiral and douglas (looks run down, but it's not a bad area), including a bigger park, the best frozen lemonade, cvs and walgreens, more pizza, chinese, another corner store, a rub n tug spa...  

seriously though, elmhurst feels like suburbia in the city, but the yards are small, so the neighborhood is fairly dense.  there are a lot of kids and families in the neighborhood too.

[BJE]

So, I got the chance to check out Wayland Square and Fox Point a little bit last week, and then spent some more time in and around the East Side today.

I came away quite impressed with the East Side in general, and both my wife and I liked the Wayland Square area and could see us living there. Looking at rental listings, there are definitely places that fit most of our needs, and although owning a SFH seems out of reach in the near future, that's not any different than Bristol or Barrington, I guess. Hopefully house prices will moderate and I will make more money in the coming years...

Reading up on PPS, I'm encouraged that at least there are options; Classical HS, especially, seems to be a standout. In fact, it's quite refreshing to find a public school that is urban, racially diverse and high performing.

By the way, Garris, by any chance you were in Minerva's (restaurant in Wayland Square) today? Sometime around 1:30pm, I was eating there with my wife and son and I noticed someone get up to leave, who appeared to be a doctor, and I thought to myself...who was it on UP that lived in Wayland Square? And he's a doctor, right?

Anyway, thanks for the input, everybody!

BJE

[Jerry2]

BJE, on Jun 4 2006, 01:43 AM, said:

So, I got the chance to check out Wayland Square and Fox Point a little bit last week, and then spent some more time in and around the East Side today.

I came away quite impressed with the East Side in general, and both my wife and I liked the Wayland Square area and could see us living there. Looking at rental listings, there are definitely places that fit most of our needs, and although owning a SFH seems out of reach in the near future, that's not any different than Bristol or Barrington, I guess. Hopefully house prices will moderate and I will make more money in the coming years...

Reading up on PPS, I'm encouraged that at least there are options; Classical HS, especially, seems to be a standout. In fact, it's quite refreshing to find a public school that is urban, racially diverse and high performing.

By the way, Garris, by any chance you were in Minerva's (restaurant in Wayland Square) today? Sometime around 1:30pm, I was eating there with my wife and son and I noticed someone get up to leave, who appeared to be a doctor, and I thought to myself...who was it on UP that lived in Wayland Square? And he's a doctor, right?

Anyway, thanks for the input, everybody!

BJE

The Wayland Square area is full of doctors and medical professionals.Anyways, it's too bad you didn't get to check out Elmhurst. Jim was actually right on this one. It is definitely more affordable and safer for a new family starting fresh. The East Side is nice, but because of the immediate wealth in the area, it attracts crime.

[Soren]

Jerry02908, on Jun 4 2006, 09:28 AM, said:

The East Side is nice, but because of the immediate wealth in the area, it attracts crime.

I've heard a couple of people say this, but I've lived in Wayland Square for five years and haven't heard of a single event where the neighborhood attracted crime.  Based on this there should be crime all over Blackstone but again, I haven't heard of any actual events.  One of our employees is dating a Providence policeman who works on the east side and it sounds mostly like college student issues (noise, etc.).  Any insight anyone?

[Garris]

BJE, on Jun 4 2006, 01:43 AM, said:

By the way, Garris, by any chance you were in Minerva's (restaurant in Wayland Square) today? Sometime around 1:30pm, I was eating there with my wife and son and I noticed someone get up to leave, who appeared to be a doctor, and I thought to myself...who was it on UP that lived in Wayland Square? And he's a doctor, right?

You remembered correctly, but that was not me...  I was in civilian clothes that day on vacation, although I was around the square!  My sister, BTW, may have been there at that time.  She loves Minerva's Pizza.

Jerry02908, on Jun 4 2006, 09:28 AM, said:

The East Side is nice, but because of the immediate wealth in the area, it attracts crime.

I agree with Soren.  This is the stereotype, but I haven't seen the reality.  The only major crime I've witnessed has been the ubiquitous graffiti and a car window broken, and that's it in 2+ yrs.  I feel completely safe walking/jogging around here at any hour of the day and morning, and know many single women who feel the same way as well.  For my sister, having mild developmental disabilities, this meant we looked hard at neighborhood safety before choosing where to live, and there were none better in the city than here.

- Garris

Edited by Garris, 05 June 2006 - 12:58 PM.

[Jerry2]

Break-ins are more commonplace on the East Side as a whole. Aside from that, it is one of the safest areas in the city...if not the safest..

[yossarian]

Garris, on Jun 5 2006, 02:58 PM, said:

This is the stereotype, but I haven't seen the reality.  The only major crime I've witnessed has been the ubiquitous graffiti and a car window broken, and that's it in 2+ yrs.  I feel completely safe walking/jogging around here at any hour of the day and morning, and know many single women who feel the same way as well.  For my sister, having mild developmental disabilities, this meant we looked hard at neighborhood safety before choosing where to live, and there were none better in the city than here.

- Garris

A couple of thoughts.  Provplan.org has plenty of links to crime statistics by neighborhood.  So this is one of those debates where we don't have to depend on anecodotal evidence.  To generalize crime does occur on the east side.  For some propery crimes, especially those don't that involve violence, many east side neighborhoods have crime rates as high or higher than neighborhoods that would be traditionally thought of as high crime.  But the East Side is not monolothic.  Violent crime is a rare phenomen on the east side and when present tends to be linked with a property crime (i.e. robbery )  

A few highlights.  
Larceny: College Hill, Fox Point, Hope and Mount Hope are all above the city wide average (39.6 per 1000 people).  Wayland is below the city wide (29.9).  But the bottom two are Elmhurst (18.1) and Mount Pleasant (18.1).  

Larceny from a car: same as above in terms of College Hill etc., except that there the bottom two are Reservoir (4.6) and Mount Pleasant (4.6) with West End (5.2) and Elmurst (5.2) next in line.  Wayland is at 10.  Citywide average is 12.8

Burglary.  Mount Hope and Fox Point are above the city wide of 10.7.  Wayland is 8.8 .  Safest is South Elmwood (4.1) and Resevoir (5.8).  Elmhurst is 7.3.  College Hill is 7.9.

Getting more violent, robbery without a gun.  No east side neighborhood is above the city wide average of 1.9.  College Hill slightly below at 1.7.  Safest are Wayland and Blackstone.  With South Elmwood and Elmust next in line.  

For violent crimes generally speaking, Wayland, Blackstone and the other east side neighborhoods are all well below the city wide average along with Elmhurst.

That all being said.  Your anecedotal experience seems spot on.   You (and single women) should feel safe jogging and walking alone.  Its incredibly unlikely someone would try to do you harm....  but while you (and the single women) are out jogging somebody may be breaking into your house/car.   There also seems to be some truth in Jim's idea that the affluence (and I would add college students with lots of consumer electronics due to daddy's credit card) on the east side does attract a certain degree of crime.

[runawayjim]

wow, nice to see elmhurst is so low, kind of surprising considering the large amount of PC students.

some things to note about the east side... there's no reason anyone should feel unsafe walking, jogging, or whatever.  obviously, more care needs to be taken at night, especially in the mount hope area.  the main reason you see so much of that sort of crime is because of the college students (and they cause some of it as well).  you have the most prestigious schools in the city over there.  they tend to be expensive and college kids like gadgets.  so you have a large amount of computers, probably mostly laptops, and with the risd folks, probably mostly apples, which are worth even more.  you don't see this trend in elmhurst because elmhurst is mostly single family homes with the exception of that small area surrounded by huxley, eaton, oakland, and smith.  that's where 90% of the rentals are in elmhurst.  the rest of it isn't quite as densely populated, nor is it as densely populated as the east side.  and yes, affluence tends to attract more burglary.

now on that note, i will say that the providence plan's website is an amazing tool for anyone looking to move to providence.  not only does it have all the crime and demographic stats of every neighborhood, it also has pretty good descriptions and maps of the neighborhoods (and i think history of them as well).  i used it a lot when i was trying to decide where to live.

www.provplan.org if anyone didn't know.

all that being said... i think we should link this thread in the "thinking of moving to providence" thread given that it has a lot of info about providence.

Edited by runawayjim, 06 June 2006 - 04:08 PM.

[Soren]

ProvPlan is an amazing resource.  Great post on the crime stats, Yossarian.

One thing about the neighborhood stats that was brought up in the last Forum was that the owner occupancy stats are misleading.  Because they are done on units, not buildings, the are skewed high.  For example, a single owner-occupied three family would come up as 33% owner-occupied, where most of us would think of the building as 100% owner-occupied, as the owner can only live in one unit but does live in the building.