376 replies to this topic

[MJLO]

If you have been to a suburb, you have been to Mesa.  I feel that the city has been decently planned.  It's certainly not built out yet, Some estimates put the city built out at over 600k.  It has alot of medium density developements and many more planned.  With the introduction of Mesa's lightrail line,  I think you will see some more High rise, High density types of development in town.  I cannot say for sure.  But there is a slight corrupt culture in Mesa's leadership.  So I wonder if anything substantial could make it's way to the city.  Basically it seems the government functions on the buddy system. In terms of what gets to go where.  But there also may just not be the demand for city like amenities in the town.  

The city i was most impressed with was Gilbert.  I have heard by some accounts that Gilbert is the fastest growing community in the country.  I don't have any hard data in front of me to back it up though.  But Gilbert has literally quintoupled in size in the last 15 years.  The developements going in, in Gilbert.  Seem very urban friendly.  I was in one developement where the houses were literally 4 feet from each other with no yard, and the streets barely fit one car, but it was a really cute community.  It seems the cities around here have taken steps to be responsible about sprawl.  I mean you still have your box stores, and national personality free chains.  But man are they cramming people in.  There is so much undeveloped land in Gilbert who knows what the future will bring.

[Mith242]

convulso, on Jun 13 2006, 04:20 PM, said:

can someone set me straight on what a swamp cooler is? i've seen a sign or two in tucson referencing them, but i have no idea what they are. i think the AZ daily star makes light of them in a promotional ad, as well.

I don't live in that area and I'm no expert but it's something a little like a humidifier.  As the water evaporates because of the dryness it creates a cooling effect.  I know some areas of New Mexico where it doesn't quite get so hot and you can really just get by with a swamp cooler than AC.  Of course there's also some areas where you don't even really need either if you live high enough up in elevation.

[loftguy]

http://www.azcentral...ing0610Z11.html

Ironic Article on Mesa (You were kinda wrong Convulso- according to this article)

Edited by loftguy, 14 June 2006 - 01:33 AM.

[MJLO]

You know, reading that makes me happy.  I have been under the impression that the people who run Mesa were so socially conservative, and stubborn, that this kind of responsible change would never happen.  But I guess that goes to show that I really need to start researching. The more I read about  Mesa, the more interesting it becomes.

[colin]

convulso, on Jun 13 2006, 02:20 PM, said:

can someone set me straight on what a swamp cooler is? i've seen a sign or two in tucson referencing them, but i have no idea what they are. i think the AZ daily star makes light of them in a promotional ad, as well.

Swamp coolers are evaporative coolers. They work by sucking in hot, dry outside air and evaporating water to spit out cold air.
Most newer homes have both a/c and swamp and have a switch somewhere. Some even have two thermostats.
Why both? Because swamp coolers only work in low humidity when the air is not saturated. The higher the humidity, the less well the swamp cooler will work. However, they're much cheaper to run than A/C, which is why people have them in the first place.
A lot of older buildings around town (including many apartments) only have swamp, and it really sucks to be there in the summer when the humidity goes up.

[colin]

MJLO, on Jun 14 2006, 08:52 AM, said:

You know, reading that makes me happy.  I have been under the impression that the people who run Mesa were so socially conservative, and stubborn, that this kind of responsible change would never happen.  But I guess that goes to show that I really need to start researching. The more I read about  Mesa, the more interesting it becomes.

Sorry, but Mesa is totally run by the Mormons. It always has been. If you research a little on the civic officials there, you'll find this out. Also, Rep. Jeff Flake, whose district covers most of Mesa, is the great-great grandson of William Jordan Flake, one of the founders of the town of Snowflake, an extreme Mormon town near Show Low (there aren't any bars there, and the Circle K is the only place that sells alcohol).

[MJLO]

No I know Colin, I was trying not to call out the mormons.  But they do have a stronghold on the city, and as long as they force their beliefs on the residents the city will be stuck in mediocrity. However with all the new residents moving in, I can't imagine they can maintain power like that forever.   Downtown is pretty, but one thing I notice is that it's for all intensive purposes dead.  Shops closed vacant retail space ect.  They need to get a night life and allow new things in, and it could really take off.

[colin]

Mith242, on Jun 7 2006, 04:20 PM, said:

I can't really speak on Arizona but I've never seen any Dixie beers in New Mexico.  Not sure if they're very big out west.

The only place I've ever seen a Southern beer on tap in either town is at the French Quarter on Grant. They have a Louisianan amber, I believe from Abita Springs, that's very good. I don't recall the name though.
Other than that, people here are very focused on West Coast, especially California, microbrews.

[convulso]

colin, on Jun 14 2006, 02:53 PM, said:

They have a Louisianan amber, I believe from Abita Springs, that's very good. I don't recall the name though.
Other than that, people here are very focused on West Coast, especially California, microbrews.

probably abita purple haze, abita turbo dog, etc. the haze is okay; a little gimmicky. girls drink it because waiters tell them it's citrus-y, for a beer. turbo dog is good.  

in AL, we just get sierra nevada, anchor steam...well, that's about it. i've already spent time drooling in front of coolers in stores here - even albertson's has more than i'm used to seeing. i'm not too snobby - i just like beer and how i can actually tell a difference between types and qualities (as opposed to wine, which baffles me). apparently AZ, like every other who'd-have-thunk-it state, has a vineyard industry it tries to promote. the results of that in alabama are pretty hi-lar-ious.

loftguy, on Jun 14 2006, 02:30 AM, said:

http://www.azcentral...ing0610Z11.html

Ironic Article on Mesa (You were kinda wrong Convulso- according to this article)

i usually am - what about? i don't get it.

[convulso]

oh, and thanks for the swamp cooler info. weird concept (to my humid southern mind) - even though it's obviously been around for a long time.

[colin]

convulso, on Jun 14 2006, 03:19 PM, said:

probably abita purple haze, abita turbo dog, etc. the haze is okay; a little gimmicky. girls drink it because waiters tell them it's citrus-y, for a beer. turbo dog is good.

It may have been Purple Haze. They have $2 drafts for happy hour if you're ever interested in heading down to Grant.
San Diego, Healdsburg and Portland seem to have the best beers, or at least are the ones that we get in Tucson. We also get the Anchors from SFO, but I've never liked them very much.
Albertson's consistently has the best selection compared to Safeway and Fry's, though (although the recently-destroyed Safeway on Campbell had some good ones). I'm not sure why. They also have better wine.
For the more common beers, Stone is one of the better and more popular ones from SD, and Tucson is the furthest east they ship it (a fact I learned at their brewery tour in Escondido which I went way out of my to go to). They have it on tap in a few places here as well.
Deschutes from Portland is also very good. Black Butte is one of my favs, especially when you get it on tap.
You'll also see Red Hook pretty often, which is from Seattle. I like their IPA a lot.

Per the wine industry, I think it's nice, but I've honestly never had any good ones. Although it's still way better than the Texas and New Mexico stuff. But if you can find Kokopelli, it's supposedly good. They used to have a vineyard/tour in Willcox, but I believe it's closed, as I went looking for it once and no one in town knew what I was talking about. I know for a fact that they have a place in Downtown Chandler where you can get it, and they usually have a booth at the Fourth Avenue Street Fair selling it a huge mark-up.
It's a really fun trip to head down to Sonoita, Elgin and Patagonia though to go on a mini-wine tour. It's beautiful country, and only an hour or so drive.

[MJLO]

I didn't realize that Arizona had a wine industry of it's own.

[colin]

MJLO, on Jun 13 2006, 03:53 PM, said:

But there is a slight corrupt culture in Mesa's leadership.  So I wonder if anything substantial could make it's way to the city.  Basically it seems the government functions on the buddy system. In terms of what gets to go where.

You mean nepotism? A lot of the Southwest is like that. New Mexico is notorious. I don't mean to continue to rant about the Mormons (although I don't think we have any Mormon readers on this forum), but Mormon-dominated communities seem especially bad about this. AZ is not, and hopefully will never be, as bad as Utah, but I'm always extremely annoyed at any level of nepotism, especially in government. But of course, nothing will ever compare to Louisiana. It's totally ridiculous there.

MJLO, on Jun 13 2006, 03:53 PM, said:

The developements going in, in Gilbert.  Seem very urban friendly.  I was in one developement where the houses were literally 4 feet from each other with no yard, and the streets barely fit one car, but it was a really cute community.

Small streets, houses close to each other. That sounds somewhat New Urbanist. Where is this place? Did they have rear-loading driveways, walking trails and small "pocket" parks? It would be awesome if you found a New Urbanist community in the Valley. I didn't think that there were any.
I'm in Phoenix this weekend. I'm staying in Tempe (Baseline@10), but if I go alone then I'll certainly stop by in Gilbert and check it out, especially since I've never been.

[MJLO]

In regards to the mormons having a stronghold on the nations 40th largest city,  I am hoping that with all the new residents moving in from all parts of the world, that the democratic process will slowly relieve them of power, and help rescue Mesa from the Jaws of mediocrity.  

The community I speak of is near Ray and Greenfield, I found it one day when I was out being bored. I live at Val Vista and Baseline in a gated Mc Mansion sprawl burg.  Not to far from this place at all.  The driveways are rear loading.  I'm not sure about walking trails, but everything I saw about it seemed so conservative of space.  I'm going to have to get back there, i'll let you know about the trails and parks.   But from what I can tell with all the explosive growth Gilbert has had.  Not all of the developements going in are like that, but the city is not being frivolous with it's open land.  Like I said I was impressed.  One caveat about that community, it is gated.  which I found was odd.  But I think that's an east Valley thing, most of the communities i've seen around here are gated.

[colin]

MJLO, on Jun 16 2006, 09:08 AM, said:

One caveat about that community, it is gated.  which I found was odd.  But I think that's an east Valley thing, most of the communities i've seen around here are gated.

I had the opportunity to hear Tom Doucette talk about development while in Civano once (Tom Doucette is a well-known developer here). He had an interesting anecdote about gated communities that involved a community putting up three gates. Why? The price of the lots went up with each successive gate.
I live in a gated apartment building, although it's only gated to prevent people from Downtown parking there. Gated communities sort of typify this fear and isolationism that's very common with Americans: we're all scared of our neighbors and feel the need to isolate ourselves from what we perceive are the threats to our safety. But with property crime especially high in Arizona, I can understand the paranoia. It sucks to have your house broken into, and it's scary to think of it getting broken into while you're inside. Putting up a fence is more of a gesture than a real security measure though, I think. They're just not really that effective.
But if people are moving there just for the exclusivity, I think that just sucks.

[Mith242]

MJLO, on Jun 15 2006, 10:02 PM, said:

I didn't realize that Arizona had a wine industry of it's own.

Yeah I'm a big wine fan myself.  I haven't had or seen any AZ wine but I have heard that the state has been making a move into the wine industry.  It does seem to be a bit hot in many areas for some grape varieties.  But then again all the sun and such probably help make some interestingly 'different' wines.  It would seem to me that AZ could be an area to try making some port.

[MJLO]

Well there are definately more tempered zones once you're a little north of the valley.  So I can see it.  

Brief rant, stupid UsAirways/America West, had half of their flights delayed tonight, so I got rail roaded at work since they funneled all of the delayed flights onto my concourse! grrr, trust me when I say you don't want to have to deal with a couple thousand annoyed airline passengers being held hostage by an airline when all they want to do is go home!  I'm beat

[loftguy]

convulso, on Jun 14 2006, 03:19 PM, said:

i usually am - what about? i don't get it.

You had mentioned you didn't like cities pretending to be like San Fran if they're not- then said you like cities that are okay with what they are, "Mesa may be one of those cities".
And then Mesa goes out and hires a San Fran consultant to help shape them into a more urban city...

At least thqat was my understanding-
just a joke...

[MJLO]

heheheheh  Mesa, "the mormon San Fran"

can't you guys see the bumper stickers?

[mcheiss]

Way to go MJLO, great job with the Arizona forum, keep up the good work.