21 replies to this topic

[Carter711]

Rhode Island has earned a reputation as one of America's most liberal states, but a new study by three liberal advocacy groups casts some doubt on that distinction, ranking Rhode Island the least liberal state in New England on the hot button social issues of gay rights and abortion rights.  Rhode Island was ranked 24th in the nation on these issues based on an analysis of their state laws, placing well behind the other New England states - most of which placed in the top ten.  

Vermont              6th
Massachusetts     7th
New Hampshire   8th
Connecticut        9th

Maine                13th
Rhode Island     24th  

New York and New Mexico were ranked as the most liberal states on these issues, while South Dakota and Ohio were deemed the least liberal.  

News link:
4 New England states deemed liberal on hot-button social issues


So what do you think, is Rhode Island really more conservative on social issues as most people assume?

[damus]

liberal or not... it's still a Democratic stronghold.

[HartfordTycoon]

damus, on Jun 1 2006, 02:02 PM, said:

liberal or not... it's still a Democratic stronghold.

As it should remain.  

[cloudship]

Why does everyone automatically think that New England states are liberal? They tend to be pretty stodgy in many cases, they just have a different legal philosophy - that legal freedom is the fundamental basis of the law, and not way of life as is more commonly the case in other parts of the country. Sure the laws are less restrictive, but in general people's own personal views are fairly uptight.

[Recchia]

Hot button issues these days are gay marriage and abortion, two things Catholics (last time I checked, 67% of this state) are very much against.

[webbage]

cloudship, on Jun 1 2006, 12:22 PM, said:

Why does everyone automatically think that New England states are liberal? They tend to be pretty stodgy in many cases, they just have a different legal philosophy - that legal freedom is the fundamental basis of the law, and not way of life as is more commonly the case in other parts of the country. Sure the laws are less restrictive, but in general people's own personal views are fairly uptight.

Just look at the election results of Rhode Island for, oh, I don't know, since 1650 and you'll see how liberal we are. I mean, for goodness sake we wouldn't ratify the Constitution until the government said they would treat us as a foreign country.

In addition, all New Englanders will vote for anyone named Kennedy.

[drc72]

Carter711, on Jun 1 2006, 11:34 AM, said:

Rhode Island has earned a reputation as one of America's most liberal states, but a new study by three liberal advocacy groups casts some doubt on that distinction, ranking Rhode Island the least liberal state in New England on the hot button social issues of gay rights and abortion rights.  Rhode Island was ranked 24th in the nation on these issues based on an analysis of their state laws, placing well behind the other New England states - most of which placed in the top ten.  

Vermont              6th
Massachusetts     7th
New Hampshire   8th
Connecticut        9th

Maine                13th
Rhode Island     24th  

New York and New Mexico were ranked as the most liberal states on these issues, while South Dakota and Ohio were deemed the least liberal.  

News link:
4 New England states deemed liberal on hot-button social issues
So what do you think, is Rhode Island really more conservative on social issues as most people assume?

New Hampshire is a surprise. I figuired they where the least liberal of the pack.

[Garris]

Recchia, on Jun 1 2006, 03:34 PM, said:

Hot button issues these days are gay marriage and abortion, two things Catholics (last time I checked, 67% of this state) are very much against.

Exactly.  The bleeding hearts of even the most left, progressive Catholics I personally know stop bleeding with these two issues.

Also, as I learned firsthand in Minnesota, a state's voting patterns and culture don't necessarily go together as you predict they would.  Minnesotans tend to be extremely socially progressive on issues to such a degree that you'd think it would be a lock as a "blue state," as it's been in the past.  But the state is increasingly culturally conservative, which plays to the Republicans.  This was one of those places where the "coasts'" and many Democrats blase attitude towards the Monica Lewinsky/Clinton scandal hurt the democrats badly.  I knew many a socially progressive, culturally conservative voter in Minnesota who claimed they'd never vote Democrat again because of that scandal.  That may be news to us here in the Northeast (it sure was to me when I moved there), but it's real there.  

Remember, morality can still kill you in the Midwest.  Jack Ryan's campaign in Illiniois was doomed after the revelation that he and former wife Jeri Ryan had gone to sex clubs.  Think that would doom a campaign in Rhode Island or California?  

- Garris

PS: NH was a big surprise.  It makes me wonder about the poll...

Edited by Garris, 01 June 2006 - 02:46 PM.

[Jenkins]

drc72, on Jun 1 2006, 02:08 PM, said:

New Hampshire is a surprise. I figuired they where the least liberal of the pack.

Aren't we RI'ers lucky - we get the crusing taxes and red tape of a blue state, combined with the neanderthal thinking of the red states. Go team!

[HartfordTycoon]

Jenkins, on Jun 1 2006, 05:31 PM, said:

Aren't we RI'ers lucky - we get the crusing taxes and red tape of a blue state, combined with the neanderthal thinking of the red states. Go team!

     Pure Hilarity. You are a comic genious!

[Cotuit]

Garris, on Jun 1 2006, 04:46 PM, said:

PS: NH was a big surprise.  It makes me wonder about the poll...

This poll is utterly bogus. Rhode Island has been on the forefront of gays rights legislation being among the first states to pass gay rights laws, transgender rights laws, and repealing sodomy laws (Massachusetts never formally repealed their sodomy laws). A recent poll also showed that Rhode Islanders have a generally favorable view towards gay marriage or civil unions, and most would not punish an assembly member who voted for such legislation.

While the state is heavily catholic, and on a personal level many of those catholics oppose such things as gay marriage and abortion, they are less willing to vote to restrict other people from having those rights.

Exactly which other state has the mayor of it's capital and largest city being an openly gay man who won election in  a 5 (?) way race with 80% of the vote? Certainly not New Hampshire.

There is however in Rhode Island, a troublingly long list of quasi-closeted political figures.  



PS: Our Republican Senator is one of only a handful of Senators who supports marriage equality, his likely democratic challenger also supports marriage equality. Matt Brown decided to openly support marriage equality before scandal drove him out of the race. Rep. Kennedy supports marriage equality...

[webbage]

Cotuit, on Jun 1 2006, 03:59 PM, said:

Our Republican Senator is one of only a handful of Senators who supports marriage equality, his likely democratic challenger also supports marriage equality. Matt Brown decided to openly support marriage equality before scandal drove him out of the race. Rep. Kennedy supports marriage equality...

Oh come on, we all know Chafee is a RINO.   He should become a Democrat and stop pretending.

[runawayjim]

NH should not be ahead of any of those states except maybe maine.  i see more confederate flags in NH than i do anywhere else in the northeast.

this poll is ridiculous.  even the catholics of this state don't follow everything verbatim.  i'd call CT less liberal than RI even.

what scandal forced matt brown out of the race?  i liked him.

[damus]

runawayjim, on Jun 1 2006, 10:21 PM, said:

NH should not be ahead of any of those states except maybe maine.  i see more confederate flags in NH than i do anywhere else in the northeast.

I was amazed at how many confederate flags I see in NL county now that I'm back from Providence. I never used to see them... now they're on front license plates (illegal), tshirts, bumper stickers, etc. Most of the "rebels" appear to be high school aged. Is this a national trend?

[Cotuit]

runawayjim, on Jun 1 2006, 10:21 PM, said:

what scandal forced matt brown out of the race?  i liked him.

Campaign finance shenanigans. He took donations from other states democratic parties, then told his donors to donate to those state's parties. In effect laundering money to bypass the caps on donations. He denies that is why he dropped out, but it wasn't long after that story broke that he was gone. He endorsed Sheldon Whitehouse.

[Carter711]

Garris, on Jun 1 2006, 02:46 PM, said:

PS: NH was a big surprise.  It makes me wonder about the poll...

Remember that this "study" covers only two social issues - Abortion rights and gay rights.  New Hampshire is probably one of the most libertarian-esque states that I'm aware of, very conservative on fiscal issues, but pretty liberal on social ones.   In the late 90's Gov. Jeanne Shaheen pushed through legislation that eliminated virtually every abortion restriction on the books, leaving the state with the most liberal abortion laws in the country.  She also signed one of the nation's first anti-discrimation bills into law that included protections covering sexual orientation.  Last year, the republican-dominated state legislature rejected a gay marriage ban amendment by the largest margin of any state that has seriously considered one.  This probably helps explain why the state earns a liberal status on these particular issues.  

That said, NH remains extremely conservative on taxes, claiming the second lowest tax burden in the country behind Alaska.  As for Gov. Shaheen, her political career ended when she made the mistake of supporting a state sales tax.  

runawayjim, on Jun 1 2006, 08:21 PM, said:

NH should not be ahead of any of those states except maybe maine.  i see more confederate flags in NH than i do anywhere else in the northeast.

This is just silly.  NH lost a higher percentage of men in the civil war than any other union state.  I can hardly think of a less confederate friendly place.  If it's confederate flags you're looking for, try driving through South Carolina.

[runawayjim]

Carter711, on Jun 2 2006, 01:25 AM, said:

Remember that this "study" covers only two social issues - Abortion rights and gay rights.  New Hampshire is probably one of the most libertarian-esque states that I'm aware of, very conservative on fiscal issues, but pretty liberal on social ones.   In the late 90's Gov. Jeanne Shaheen pushed through legislation that eliminated virtually every abortion restriction on the books, leaving the state with the most liberal abortion laws in the country.  She also signed one of the nation's first anti-discrimation bills into law that included protections covering sexual orientation.  Last year, the republican-dominated state legislature rejected a gay marriage ban amendment by the largest margin of any state that has seriously considered one.  This probably helps explain why the state earns a liberal status on these particular issues.  

That said, NH remains extremely conservative on taxes, claiming the second lowest tax burden in the country behind Alaska.  As for Gov. Shaheen, her political career ended when she made the mistake of supporting a state sales tax.  
This is just silly.  NH lost a higher percentage of men in the civil war than any other union state.  I can hardly think of a less confederate friendly place.  If it's confederate flags you're looking for, try driving through South Carolina.

RI is big on gay rights, but i think the catholics draw the line at abortion.

i just said what i see... and that's more confederate flags than the other northeastern states (haven't spent as much time in maine though).  obviously there's more in the south... because, after all, it will rise again.

[Garris]

runawayjim, on Jun 1 2006, 10:21 PM, said:

i'd call CT less liberal than RI even.

While on the aggregate that is true, CT is a tough state to call.  Like much of CT issues, there is a West/East divide, with the Western half of the state being more progressive than the more rural Eastern half.  However, CT is likely more like NH or NJ than RI or NY in that while being socially progressive on many issues, it's extremely fiscally conservative.  It's virulentlly anti-tax and, until very recently, has been quite visibly anti-urban as well.  

These dichotomies, among others, always makes CT politics and elections fun to follow.

- Garris

[damus]

Garris, on Jun 2 2006, 12:55 PM, said:

It's virulentlly anti-tax and, until very recently, has been quite visibly anti-urban as well.

anti tax? Isn't CT one of the most taxed states in the nation? Just look at gas prices, which are 10 cents higher in CT than in the rest of New England. Automobile taxes are supposedly outrageously unfair and even the casinos lose 25% of their slot revenue to go into the black hole that is the state budget. The only thing CT doesn't tax is the highways, and that was because of a major accident at a toll booth. I'm in favor of cutting or dropping the income tax and replacing it with toll booths, which tax not just the residents but the people who are just passing through... but that won't happen any time soon...

[runawayjim]

damus, on Jun 2 2006, 01:04 PM, said:

anti tax? Isn't CT one of the most taxed states in the nation? Just look at gas prices, which are 10 cents higher in CT than in the rest of New England. Automobile taxes are supposedly outrageously unfair and even the casinos lose 25% of their slot revenue to go into the black hole that is the state budget. The only thing CT doesn't tax is the highways, and that was because of a major accident at a toll booth. I'm in favor of cutting or dropping the income tax and replacing it with toll booths, which tax not just the residents but the people who are just passing through... but that won't happen any time soon...

gas taxes are actually lower in CT than RI.  i've heard the reason prices are lower in RI is that the gas stations don't make any profit so they can afford to compete.