154 replies to this topic

[gregw]

I went to Brown for grad school and worked at Harvard for a while. The difference in scale and resources is like night and day.

The entire Brown campus would probably fit onto the campus of Harvard Business School.

This contrast of scale and resources holds true for Yale, Princeton, and Columbia, not to mention some of the non-Ivy powerhouses like Berkeley, MIT, Stanford, etc. In size, Brown is much closer to Dartmouth.

As Garris pointed out, Brown lacks a business and a law school and its medical school is not all that old. This means that there has not been the massive inflow of money from legions of grateful and very wealthy alums that these schools have enjoyed for many years. Also Brown's reputation did not really take off on a national and international scale until the 80s.

Brown's endowment is certainly growing but the other places are not exactly standing still. This discrepancy puts the Brown administration in a kind of dilemma: does Brown try to compete with the major research places like Harvard and Yale albeit by standing out in a few key areas (this is Simmons' strategy) or should it essentially be a liberal arts college with a modest array of grad level programs? This was the idea behind the so-called "University-College" that pretty much characterized the institution going back to the 70s.

I don't know how realistic Brown's current agenda is to hold its own next to the heavyweights, but I admire it for trying.

Edited by gregw, 02 January 2006 - 02:14 PM.

[Garris]

gregw, on Jan 2 2006, 03:13 PM, said:

I don't know how realistic Brown's current agenda is to hold its own next to the heavyweights, but I admire it for trying.

At least on the medical side of things, all I can say is they have a lot of work to do.  The new medicine Dean is an extremely bright and quite prominent figure, and I think he understands that consolidating and focusing the University's far flung resources is a way to start.

I think, whether realistic or not, Brown has to take the course they are on.  The differences (especially in biomedical sciences and research) between first and second tier institutions is getting greater by the year, and if Brown stands still (or sticks with the status quo of that University-College model from the 70's), they really risk getting left waaay behind by those first tier universities.

I mean, listen, before MIT and Yale and Stanford were what they are in research and development, they needed to take risks and sink some serious capital into the effort (Yale is still doing so, with no less than 5 new science centers under construction on the undergraduate campus alone, not including all that's being done at the medical school).  Brown needs that same level of investment, or they'll just become a bigger Haverford or Wesleyan.

Also, it's fair to note, that in the Ivys, as far as resources go, it's Harvard, Yale, and then everyone else.  I know someone in graduate studies in molecular biology at Princeton who came from Yale, and she says the depth and availability of resources is similarly night and day.

- Garris

Edited by Garris, 02 January 2006 - 05:33 PM.

[gregw]

Just checked and Brown's endowment is $1.9 billion.

Harvard's is $25.9 billion.

Yale's is $15.2 billion.

The endowments of Harvard and Yale are bigger than the GDP's of some developing nations.

Edited by gregw, 02 January 2006 - 05:48 PM.

[PVDJack]

gregw, on Jan 2 2006, 06:45 PM, said:

Just checked and Brown's endowment is $1.9 billion.

Harvard's is $25.9 billion.

Yale's is $15.2 billion.

The endowments of Harvard and Yale are bigger than the GDP's of some developing nations.

Another data point: according Wikipedia, Dartmouth's endowment is $2.9 billion.

[Frankie811]

gregw, on Dec 30 2005, 07:18 AM, said:

Sounds like this is the Sydney Frank bldg that was announced several months back.

http://www.urbanplan...indpost&p=29524

[Frankie811]

http://www.projo.com...2.18182083.html

[basachs]

Arming college police is a sensitive and volatile issue. Wonder what people's thoughts are on this?

Personally, I dont see an urban college police force being all that effective without being armed. They seem to have recieved adequate training.

[Garris]

I have no problem with it.  I think Brown may actually be a little behind here.  I think many large, urban university's police forces are armed (Yale's certainly were when I was there in the early 90's).

- Garris

PS: Speaking of Brown vs other Ivy resources, the Yale alumni magazine just came detailing how Yale is in the midst of a huge building boom.  Something like 46 buildings being renovated, 17 brand new large buildings being built (most much larger than the Brown Biomed building), and 22 new buildings on the drawning board.  Compare that with Brown's what?  Like 1-2 new buildings and 4-5 on the agenda?  The resource differences between Harvard, Yale, and the other Ivy's is pretty substantial...  If anyone is interested, I can scan some of the maps and renders and photos of Yale's buildings...

Edited by Garris, 12 January 2006 - 11:46 AM.

[Cotuit]

Garris, on Jan 12 2006, 12:43 PM, said:

If anyone is interested, I can scan some of the maps and renders and photos of Yale's buildings...

That would be interesting, I'd suggest posting it in the Hartford section.

[Frankie811]

Garris, on Jan 12 2006, 12:43 PM, said:

PS: Speaking of Brown vs other Ivy resources, the Yale alumni magazine just came detailing how Yale is in the midst of a huge building boom.  Something like 46 buildings being renovated, 17 brand new large buildings being built (most much larger than the Brown Biomed building), and 22 new buildings on the drawning board.  Compare that with Brown's what?  Like 1-2 new buildings and 4-5 on the agenda?  The resource differences between Harvard, Yale, and the other Ivy's is pretty substantial...  If anyone is interested, I can scan some of the maps and renders and photos of Yale's buildings...

And does Yale face the same public opposition as Brown does when presenting expansion projects.

[JJK5]

I attended a small Catholic school up in Worcester (Assumption) and the campus police were armed there, despite the college being nestled in Worcester's affluent neighborhood.  Never really was an issue, was joked about more than anything.  I don't see a problem arming campus police, assuming they've received the proper training.  ( I believe AssCo's PS had to attend police academy or something)

Edited by JJK5, 12 January 2006 - 01:55 PM.

[Frankie811]

JJK5, on Jan 12 2006, 02:54 PM, said:

I attended a small Catholic school up in Worcester (Assumption) and the campus police were armed there, despite the college being nestled in Worcester's affluent neighborhood.  Never really was an issue, was joked about more than anything.  I don't see a problem arming campus police, assuming they've received the proper training.  ( I believe AssCo's PS had to attend police academy or something)

The student body hasen't really come out against this too much, which was surprising for such a liberal school. I think if this were the '60's or '70's the response might have been different.

[Baines]

basachs, on Jan 12 2006, 10:51 AM, said:

Arming college police is a sensitive and volatile issue. Wonder what people's thoughts are on this?

Personally, I dont see an urban college police force being all that effective without being armed. They seem to have recieved adequate training.

I have been a public safety administrator and I can see no justification for arming anyone at any college. I know and have worked with Bill Bratton but totally disagree on this issue. Brown is in a large city with hundreds of city police officials on the street.. The state never should have been permitted to become certified police officers as they are a private company...money talks.

[Garris]

Frankie811, on Jan 12 2006, 02:33 PM, said:

And does Yale face the same public opposition as Brown does when presenting expansion projects.

It's been quite a while since I've lived there, but my recollection is that there usually isn't nearly as much opposition.  This is for several reasons:

1) It's their campus and no one else's:
Unlike Brown, whose campus is diffuse and scattered all over College Hill, Yale's campus is fairly encapsulated and doesn't bleed into the city.  Much of this construction is happening deep within its own gates and boundries, and doesn't impact the surrounding neighborhoods or city.

2) It's not a residential area:
The construction on the fringes of the campus or outside the campus are happening in neighborhoods that aren't particularly residential or, in some instances, are run down residential areas that welcome the development attention.  

3) What scale problem?:
Unlike Brown, which is a collection of smaller buildings or converted homes, Yale's campus is pretty much a collection of very large buildings, especially on "Science Hill" and the Medical School campus (which has some truly gigantic old buildings).  So building a giant biomedical research building or hulking cancer center just fits right in with what's already there.  I'm sure this is one reason Brown must like the idea of its biomedical expansion ideas for the Jewelry District.  Who would notice?

4) They are the only game in town:
If Yale doesn't build and expand in NH, who will?  For this reason alone, development opposition isn't strong.

Often at Yale, opposition comes from within their own campus, especially on the architecture front.  Yale has such great, gothic, old architecture (much of which was deliberately and consciously cribbed from Oxford in the late 1800's) that many charge that the university's modern efforts just aren't up to snuff, or on the flip side, when they do architecture that attempts to contextually fit in, it's weak, banal, and obvious.  

- Garris

[Cotuit]

Baines, on Jan 12 2006, 09:43 PM, said:

I have been a public safety administrator and I can see no justification for arming anyone at any college. I know and have worked with Bill Bratton but totally disagree on this issue. Brown is in a large city with hundreds of city police officials on the street.. The state never should have been permitted to become certified police officers as they are a private company...money talks.

I don't know where you worked in Public Safety but it is far more than money talking. The Brown Police are police officers just like any other force in the state. They are on the road patrolling the campus and adjacent city streets. They go through rigorous police academy training, Brown is not simply giving guns to security guards hired off the street. Considering the response time from Providence Police on the East Side it's imperative that the Brown Police be armed for officer safety and for the safety of the university community and general community on College Hill.

[Frankie811]

Cotuit, on Jan 13 2006, 10:46 AM, said:

They are on the road patrolling the campus and adjacent city streets.

I've heard over the years that after 9pm security forces have jurisdiction over what happens on the sidewalks adjacent to the property that they patrol. Does anyone know if this is true, and what law is this?

[Frankie811]

http://www.projo.com...d.180b04b6.html

[Cotuit]

Frankie811, on Jan 13 2006, 06:49 PM, said:

I've heard over the years that after 9pm security forces have jurisdiction over what happens on the sidewalks adjacent to the property that they patrol. Does anyone know if this is true, and what law is this?

Not really. Brown PD has jurisdiction over city streets at all times as they are sworn police officers. They have all the powers of Providence Police Officers and would be bound to act if they witnessed a crime in any area of the city while on duty. However, they most often defer to Providence Police on serious matters.

Public Safety or Security Officers have very few actual powers, even on their own property. However, like Brown officers they would be bound to act if they witnessed a crime or event while on duty in uniform. They have limited powers to detain a suspect until Providence Police can be brought on scene. This is regardless of the time of day.

Providence Police and the various Safety and Security forces do often work very closely together. In the event of an emergency, the various forces back each other up, and in the event of large planned event they work together. For example, during the Red Sox World Series Championship series, various colleges and the city police had officers on duty on Weybosset outside J&W to monitor anticipated unrest.

[Frankie811]

http://www.browndail...dailyherald.com

[Frankie811]

http://www.projo.com...3.1d123c11.html