20 replies to this topic

[AubieTurtle]

The following is from Newsweek's ranking of the top 1000 high schools in the US.  Given that Georgia is an average size state in both terms of population and area, it would be expected that the state would have about twenty schools on the list, with two in each grouping of 100.  While Georgia does exceed the total number, there is a large cluster towards the second half of the list.

Rank| School			|  Location	  |State |  Index | Subsidized lunches
107 |  Lakeside		 |  Atlanta	   |  Ga. |  2.689 |  25.9
160 |  Walton		   |  Marietta	  |  Ga. |  2.460 |  2
287 |  Northview		|  Duluth		|  Ga. |  2.007 |  3
330 |  Chamblee Charter |  Chamblee	  |  Ga. |  1.873 |  3.8
360 |  Roswell		  |  Roswell	   |  Ga. |  1.823 |  15
469 |  North Atlanta	|  Atlanta	   |  Ga. |  1.625 |  51
512 |  Chattahoochee	|  Alpharetta	|  Ga. |  1.563 |  4
579 |  La Grange		|  La Grange	 |  Ga. |  1.481 |  46
586 |  Columbus		 |  Columbus	  |  Ga. |  1.465 |  34
600 |  Centennial	   |  Roswell	   |  Ga. |  1.450 |  2
620 |  DeK. Arts School |  DeKalb		|  Ga. |  1.426 |  22.9
653 |  Brookwood		|  Snellville	|  Ga. |  1.396 |  13
660 |  Duluth		   |  Duluth		|  Ga. |  1.392 |  22
689 |  Dunwoody		 |  Dunwoody	  |  Ga. |  1.359 |  21.7
695 |  Norcross		 |  Norcross	  |  Ga. |  1.351 |  39
699 |  Central Gwinnett |  Lawrenceville |  Ga. |  1.347 |  35.7
729 |  North Gwinnett   |  Suwanee	   |  Ga. |  1.316 |  10.3
754 |  North Springs	|  Atlanta	   |  Ga. |  1.296 |  19
868 |  Starr's Mill	 |  Fayetteville  |  Ga. |  1.195 |  4.5
889 |  Dacula		   |  Dacula		|  Ga. |  1.178 |  14.4
910 |  Parkview		 |  Lilburn	   |  Ga. |  1.150 |  12.5
919 |  Milton		   |  Alpharetta	|  Ga. |  1.143 |  1.8
950 |  Campbell		 |  Smyrna		|  Ga. |  1.110 |  25
952 |  Sequoyah		 |  Canton		|  Ga. |  1.106 |  6
955 |  Druid Hills	  |  Atlanta	   |  Ga. |  1.105 |  43.8

		 GA | AT | FU | GW | DK | CO
001-100: 0	0	0	0	0	0
101-200: 2	1	0	0	0	1
201-300: 1	0	0	1	0	0
301-400: 2	0	1	0	1	0
401-500: 1	1	0	0	0	0
501-600: 4	0	2	0	0	0
601-700: 6	0	1	4	1	0
701-800: 2	0	1	1	0	0
801-900: 2	0	0	1	0	0
901-1000:5	0	1	1	1	1
Total:  25	2	6	8	3	2

GA = State of Georgia (includes all schools)
AT = City of Atlanta
FU = Fulton County (excludes City of Atlanta schools)
GW = Gwinnett County (includes any city school systems)
DK = DeKalb County (excludes City of Atlanta schools)
CO = Cobb County

Note: 
North Springs has an Atlanta address but is part of the Fulton County school system.
Druid Hills has an Atlanta address but is part of the DeKalb County school system.

Edited by AubieTurtle, 17 June 2006 - 09:42 AM.

[Andrea]

AubieTurtle, on Jun 17 2006, 12:28 AM, said:

Note:
North Springs has an Atlanta address but is not part of the Fulton County school system.

I always wonder how reliable these "national rankings" are.  North Springs, for instance, is in the Fulton County School system.  I think objective measures are very important, but when it comes down to evaluating the quality of schools, sometimes these sorts of ratings misinterpret what's actually going on at the local level.

[AubieTurtle]

Andrea, on Jun 17 2006, 11:38 AM, said:

I always wonder how reliable these "national rankings" are.  North Springs, for instance, is in the Fulton County School system.  I think objective measures are very important, but when it comes down to evaluating the quality of schools, sometimes these sorts of ratings misinterpret what's actually going on at the local level.

The numbers come from Newsweek but the notes at the bottom were mine.  I originally had "is not part of the city of Atlanta school system" but then decided to change it to say it was part of Fulton County but failed to remove the word "not".  It was my mistake, not Newsweek's.

In general, rankings are somewhat arbitary because of what they decide are the factors to include in the ratings.  For these rankings, I believe they used primarily AP enrollment and graduation rates.

What I find surprising is how much I heard from people in Gwinnett about having so many schools in the 600-700 range.  I know there are thousands of high schools in this country but I don't think 600-700 is very impressive.

Edited by AubieTurtle, 17 June 2006 - 09:47 AM.

[Andrea]

AubieTurtle, on Jun 17 2006, 11:46 AM, said:

In general, rankings are somewhat arbitary because of what they decide are the factors to include in the ratings.  For these rankings, I believe they used primarily AP enrollment and graduation rates.

What I find surprising is how much I heard from people in Gwinnett about having so many schools in the 600-700 range.  I know there are thousands of high schools in this country but I don't think 600-700 is very impressive.

I hear you, Aubie.  As you know, one of my biggest concerns is the quality of city schools, as I think they are critical to the success of our town.  Yes, the APS system in general has a long way to go, but there are bight spots which I think sometimes get overlooked in "objective" rankings.

[CusK]

Marrast, Lovett, Westminster, and Holy Innocents' Episcopal school are the best in the state.

[Andrea]

CusK, on Jul 3 2006, 10:10 AM, said:

Marrast, Lovett, Westminster, and Holy Innocents' Episcopal school are the best in the state.

But you have to come up with an extra $20K or so every year to go there, which is beyond the means of many people.  That's on top of the thousands you are already paying in property taxes for your public schools.

Just out of curiosity, how do places like Pace and Woodward figure in?  I would have assumed they were the equivalent of the four you list.

[Newnan]

MY dad went to Lovett, my aunts went to Westminster and my cousins go to Holy Innocents, but I doub't their education isn't any better than mine at Newnan High School

Edited by Newnan, 03 July 2006 - 09:34 AM.

[Pillsbury]

Newnan, on Jul 3 2006, 11:34 AM, said:

MY dad went to Lovett, my aunts went to Westminster and my cousins go to Holy Innocents, but I doub't their education isn't any better than mine at Newnan High School

Very true.  The top students at a public school can compete with the top students at a private school any day of the week.  But I guess the private schools are better at motivating the unmotivated lazy students (like I was) and getting them into good colleges.   Are there really schools charging $20K for one year?  That's highway robbery in my opinion.

[Lady Celeste]

Not to be an elistist but I do not think that your average public school has the same rigorous curriculum as a top notch private school. Public schools tend to teach on the bell curve method. This means that the curriculum is only as challeging as the the median would have it. As a mother, I pour over test scores, graduation rates, SAT and ACT scores, honor class participation, and parental participation, blah blah, blah. There are areas of public schools that are almost as good as some private schools. Some schools in Fulton, Cobb, Fayette, Gwinnett and DeKalb and one cluster of schools in Buckhead are the only public systems I would feel totally comfortable sending my children.

To answer the private school tuition question, yes there are schools who charge between $15,000 and $20,000. It depends on if your child is in lower or upper school. Upper school will always be more expensive. There are discounts for multiple children though.

Speaking of which, when my family was about to make a move to Boca two years ago, we were looking for a school similar to the one my daughter already attended. To my surprise, private schools in Atlanta are a bargin. One school, St Andrews...while excellent...will set you back as much as $33,000. That is of course if you board your child. I could never have the heart to do such a thing.

[Pillsbury]

^ for $33,000 a year, they better guarantee my kid a full scholarship to Harvard or Yale.

[Lady Celeste]

Pillsbury, on Jul 3 2006, 12:28 PM, said:

^ for $33,000 a year, they better guarantee my kid a full scholarship to Harvard or Yale.

Often times...with hard work and dedication from the parents, your child usually does have to ability to attend such schools. Of course, not every child wants to attend those schools and I would never force my dream to have a Harvard educated child onto those of my child. Not that you implied that with your statement. If they graduate from said schools and attend DeKalb Tech, I hope they are the best student they can possibly be. It wouldn't be because mommy and daddy didn't try.

[Andrea]

Lady Celeste, on Jul 3 2006, 02:46 PM, said:

Often times...with hard work and dedication from the parents, your child usually does have to ability to attend such schools. Of course, not every child wants to attend those schools and I would never force my dream to have a Harvard educated child onto those of my child. Not that you implied that with your statement. If they graduate from said schools and attend DeKalb Tech, I hope they are the best student they can possibly be. It wouldn't be because mommy and daddy didn't try.

Back in the day (1960's and 70's) the Ivy League schools probably drew most of their Atlanta students from the public high schools.  With the possible exception of Lovett, Marist, Woodward and Westminster, it wouldn't suprise me if that's still the case.

Edited by Andrea, 03 July 2006 - 01:03 PM.

[alexr15]

I went to McIntosh HS for a year and then transferred to Lovett. Honestly, I really couldn't see that much difference. *shrugs*  I probably should have gone to Woodward. Most of my family has gone or goes there. In fact, my cousin and her husband just built a house in College Park just so their kids can walk to Woodward when they get older.

Edited by alexr15, 03 July 2006 - 02:44 PM.

[chasedodge]

Andrea, on Jul 3 2006, 03:03 PM, said:

Back in the day (1960's and 70's) the Ivy League schools probably drew most of their Atlanta students from the public high schools.  With the possible exception of Lovett, Marist, Woodward and Westminster, it wouldn't suprise me if that's still the case.

I would say thats the case as well, but possibly for different reasons. I think public schools put more people into those schools because they have more people. For the most part the size of the class is bigger, 400-500 or more in some cases as opposed to 200 or less at the private schools. And they are several hundred valedictorians in the schools of metro Atlanta where as there are four or five from the private schools. But I tend to think that when everyone is included or even the top 50% of the students, since everyone would not be fair to public schools, that private schools are doing better. There are very few public schools with average SAT scores comparable to the private schools. But that is more to do with the small class sizes and the teachers caring about how well you are doing and getting on you if you are not performing to where they think you can. My school, Marist was about 10,000 a year when I went there. I think it is up to around 12k now.

[Pillsbury]

Lady Celeste, on Jul 3 2006, 02:46 PM, said:

Often times...with hard work and dedication from the parents, your child usually does have to ability to attend such schools. Of course, not every child wants to attend those schools and I would never force my dream to have a Harvard educated child onto those of my child. Not that you implied that with your statement. If they graduate from said schools and attend DeKalb Tech, I hope they are the best student they can possibly be. It wouldn't be because mommy and daddy didn't try.

Very true.  I got sticker shock with the 20K and then 33K a year for school.  To be honest, that's not much less than what I'm looking at for Grad school at a private college.   I'm sure it's money well spent, it just seemed a bit high.   Around here, the Catholic schools are as low as 8K-10K a year and I think the really ultra-ritzy schools are like 12K-14K a year (though they offer scholarships for lower-income kids).

[sanka]

I wonder where the east cobb schools are....

wheeler
lassiter

I thought these were top notch schools...

[Ugastin07]

sanka, on Jul 9 2006, 12:33 PM, said:

I wonder where the east cobb schools are....

wheeler
lassiter

I thought these were top notch schools...

Which is why this list is not, IMO, an accurate reflection of America's Top Schools. This list SOLELY ranks high schools on the ratio of students who take AP courses. While this is very indicative of a good school, many AP programs are not of the caliber they should be. A more accurate ranking would look at what percentage of students taking AP courses took the test and received college credit, which is better than counting John Doe who took 12 AP courses at X High School but failed 10 of them. As for East Cobb High schools, comparitively in the metro area, they have the top SAT and ACT scores usually, and it is a shame that this misleading list has left many of them out of the lime light.

[dixiecupdrinking]

I went to Woodward and I think it did both good and bad things for me. I probably aged about an extra decade during high school just from the 40 mile commute from Johns Creek. But I do think the educational experience there is truly a step above that you'd receive at Chattahoochee or Northview. Whether it's $20,000/year better (I think it was more in the range of $12-15k when I was there.. spare change, no problem!) has to be a personal decision. The personal attention, access to resources (our classroom facilities were probably better than my college's, and our music and arts building was unreal), the quality of the teachers -- you can't really put a price tag on them.

At the same time, though, you can't put a price tag on the cost of going to a school that draws from ALL OVER THE PLACE. I thought I had it bad until I met a girl who commuted from JASPER every day. It's unhealthy for anyone to be doing that, but at 16 it seems almost criminal. I dated a girl briefly who lived in Locust Grove and driving 70 miles to go to a movie added a whole other element to the romantic experience of high school. At least those were the days when gas was under a dollar in GA... I'm about to get wistful. So the cost of a lot of those private schools is the physical community, though granted many of them do draw from more confined areas.. Lovett and Westminster seem primarily Buckhead-to-Vinings oriented, Marist seems largely Sandy Springs-Dunwoody, etc.


Sorry, a bit OT there, couldn't help but wax nostalgic.  

For what it's worth, by the Newsweek measure I would be surprised if Woodward didn't score very well. I took several APs and they prepared all of us extremely well. Anything lower than a 3 was verrrry rare. They set the bar very high -- I remember taking a "practice" exam in AP French about a week before the real AP exam, and being told by my teacher I was going to score a 2 on it. I ended up with a 4 -- despite absolutely bombing an entire section.

[chasedodge]

sanka, on Jul 9 2006, 12:33 PM, said:

I wonder where the east cobb schools are....

wheeler
lassiter

I thought these were top notch schools...

I thought Walton was east cobb, I guess not though.

[Ugastin07]

chasedodge, on Jul 11 2006, 05:13 PM, said:

I thought Walton was east cobb, I guess not though.

Walton is indeed an East Cobb school.
Generally, the high schools designated as "East Cobb" are Walton, Lassiter, Pope, Wheeler, Sprayberry, and Kell. The last two depend on who you ask, but the moniker "East Cobb" seems to grow larger each day as more and more businesses and homes that are increasingly further west want the ritzy designation of "East Cobb." Historically, this area is home to some of the best schools in the state which is why many wonder why they were left off the list.