249 replies to this topic

[ChiefJoJo]

I emailed a staff member about this--response here:

Quote

"At this time staff is preparing a Request for Proposals that will be sent to consultants interested in working on the project. To date, that RFP has not been released. We hope to advertise the RFP in July.  Here is a little history on the multi-modal center. A public process will be included as the consultant works on the project. Stay tuned and there will be more to come."

In 1995 the City of Raleigh undertook a study and adopted the finding that there was sufficient travel demand to warrant a Multi-Modal Transportation Center (MTC) and selected the railroad Wye area as the location to study. Support was confirmed for the MTC with the understanding that by combining the transportation modes into a central facility the city would aid those passengers transferring between modes and provide the efficiency of a single facility to serve a variety of transportation systems.  A second study supported by the City of Raleigh, Triangle Transit Authority, and North Carolina Department of Transportation developed two design scenarios for the MTC, the Wye alternative and the Morgan/Hargett Street alternative.  The scenarios accommodate the physical space needs of the intercity rail passenger system and the regional rail transit system, as well as the space needs for freight, intercity bus service, local transit systems, airport and other shuttle systems.  The scenarios illustrate how parking, concessions, access (pedestrian, bicycle, local transit, auto and rail), freight storage and handling, office and support space could all be accommodated within the facility.

If the RFP goes out in July, I'd expect the public process to be underway by early next year.  I assume this will be a more detailed study showing how, when, and where the facility should be built.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Thank you for checking into this!

[ChiefJoJo]

The state approved matching funds for the planning study, which totals about $180k.  Hopefully, we'll be hearing more about this in the fall.

[pack-man]

i've been hearing about this for years.  it is having a real hard time getting off the ground.

[Tayfromcarolina]

That's because the city until very recently has lacked vision. And even now with recent issues (Plensas art, etc..) I still wonder.

But with so much momentum downtown I don't see why this project should'nt really take off.

[ChiefJoJo]

Like I said the study is fully funded and ready to proceed later this year once a consultant is chosen.  I'd hope the outcomes would be an implementation and funding strategy for getting the thing built.  It would be a good idea even if TTA came later on next door.

[ChiefJoJo]

In March 2007, a consultant will start work on a plan and development strategy for the future multimodal center in DT Raleigh.  The plan should be done near the end of 2007.  Like I said in the transit topic, there is a lot going in right now and in the next few years.    FYI, here is the RFP for consultant interest with some more info:

 RFP_RaleighMulti_modalTransportationCenter.pdf   864.17K   253 downloads

[orulz]

Thanks for the link Chief!

A big factor delaying this project was the uncertainty surrounding the TTA line. And considering that it's still uncertain, I don't know how they plan to proceed.

Buried in the RFP is a link to the current working plan for the MTC, the 2002 conceptual study, a document which I haven't seen before.

[ChiefJoJo]

orulz, on Jan 6 2007, 09:09 AM, said:

A big factor delaying this project was the uncertainty surrounding the TTA line. And considering that it's still uncertain, I don't know how they plan to proceed.

The consultant must address and accomodate the currently planned TTA Phase I line and it's staions, platforms, etc., as well be able to "propose alternative means for bringing regional rail to this location."  They also must consider potential SEHSR corridors and platforms, and potential EASTRANS service, Cherokee Pertners development plans, a new CAT/TTA bus station (from Moore Sq), parking, pedestrian connections, and roadway improvements all in this relatively small disconnected study area!!!  

It seems like a tremendous challenge to handle of those plans while coordianting with NCDOT Rail/Transit, TTA,  city, Cherokee, and neighborhood and other stakeholders.  On the positive side, DT development and the economy as a whole is growing at a breakneck pace, and the market is and probably will continue to be ripe for private investment partnerships.

[urbanesq]

ChiefJoJo, on Jan 6 2007, 01:10 PM, said:

as well be able to "propose alternative means for bringing regional rail to this location."

wow.  that seems like a tall order...

[transitman]

urbanesq, on Jan 7 2007, 10:19 AM, said:

wow.  that seems like a tall order...

Looking at the RFP, I think what they mean is that assuming commuter rail trains made it into Downtown Raleigh, however they got there, say, within 1/2-mile of the wye and the potential Multimodal Station areas, how would you integrate those services, arriving on whichever tracks they use, into a big facility?

Essentially, the consultants are not being asked to solve the deployment of a full line or lines, just how to tie them together.  Eastrans, TTA Regional Rail, and High-Speed rail are the most likely implementations, and they all come from different directions.

[ChiefJoJo]

Nothing new here... study area with TTA, CAT, Amtrak, Greyhound, and future high-speed sites (yellow):


& rendering from the phase 2 study, showing a possible layout of the MTC:


Note that the TTA design now has the tracks entering the Wye are below grade--not elevated.  Also notice the access from Glenwood Ave from the north *and* West St (I emphasize this because I can recall posts wondering about future connectivity in this area) from the east directly into the facility.  I think the blue areas are potential redevelopment sites.

[carynative]

This may have been covered earlier in the post but I didn't see it.  Is there a real timeline for bringing this project to fruition?   I agree with the other poster that this does seem like a tall order, especially given that TTA's rail plans are back to square one.

[Jones133]

I was one of the people wondering about connectivity.....there is no easy way into the place from the south....Harrington or West, or a Glenwood viaduct even, needs to connect accross the tracks somehow....I am surprised Boylan Heights is not pushing for this because alot of traffic would be diverted out of their  neighborhood if such a connection was made....getting the tracks below grade was top priority for them I suppose....

Edit: wouldn't this also take over the not-yet-open Sidetrack Pub as well? Five Star (eventually) and Sidetrack both casualitys ....... I never like to see homegrown cool spots kicked out (assuming Sidetrack opens and is cool like I think it will be)

Edited by Jones133, 24 February 2007 - 07:34 PM.

[ChiefJoJo]

TTA owns the Five Star and Men at Work blocks south and north of Hargett St.  I believe given the state of the rail plans, they are simply leasing out the properties in those areas, maybe on a yearly basis.  Sidetrack was supposed to open in less than 2 weeks, but there is nothing going on there, so maybe they have yet to achieve investors, or maybe it's due to the MTC plans.  But either way, it looks like that building and anything else with the wye area S of Morgan St, W of West St and E of Boylan will be gone in the future.

Quote

Is there a real timeline for bringing this project to fruition?

The impetus behind this new plan is to refine all the previous plans, and work with TTA and the other stakeholders... the outcome will be an implementation plan or blueprint that can be followed such that the project can be funded probably using some federal funds and also selling air and other development rights for sites (in blue) within the wye that aren't being used by rail or transit.  The trick is probably going to be in accounting for all of the possible uses for high-speed rail, Amtrak, TTA, EASTRANS, etc and still be able to find sites for development.  I'd guess the MTC would likely move forward in conjunction with whatever happens with transit in the wye.  So if TTA Phase I moves forward in a few years, the MTC would have a great chance of proceeding as well.

[ChiefJoJo]

From the council agenda:

22.5 Planning
It is recommended that the following transfer be authorized:
Transferred From:
505-9443-79001-975 Downtown West Gateway $80,000.00
Transferred To:
505-7493-79201-975 Multi-modal Planning Grant $80,000.00
Purpose:
To provide additional funds for a contract with HDR, Architecture, Inc. to prepare the Downtown Multi-Modal Transportation Center Plan and Development Strategy.

I certainly hope the MTC development strategy will move forward soon now the consultant is on board, and  I'm hoping we'll see some potential layouts and development strategies by years end.  Development of the MTC would likely mean selling air rights over parking garages or other facilities to finance construction.  I am assuming that somewhere in the new 2035 Triangle Transit Plan, there will be a transit corridor utilizing the NCRR corridor and that a new station will need to go in the "wye" area.

If you look at the map 5 posts above, I think ultimately, we might need to maintain both bus stations and connect them with a streetcar or some other minimal people-mover system that might go along Hargett St and tie everything together, sort of the way Charlotte is planning with their current transit center and future Gateway Center.

[ncwebguy]

Looking back at the map, the Morgan/West/Hargett block is currently for sale *and* is shown as a potential site for the high speed rail platform.  Is TTA and/or Cherokee looking at buying the property, which would be diagonally across from the site of the two hotels.  If the area felt connected, walking from the stop to Hillsborough would seem a lot easier.

A Hargett/Martin connector loop with a stop on the east side of Wilmington would make the pedestrian connector to the Moore Square bus terminal more useful and could easily move passengers between transit systems.

[ChiefJoJo]

ncwebguy, on Jun 5 2007, 05:54 PM, said:

Looking back at the map, the Morgan/West/Hargett block is currently for sale *and* is shown as a potential site for the high speed rail platform.  Is TTA and/or Cherokee looking at buying the property, which would be diagonally across from the site of the two hotels.  If the area felt connected, walking from the stop to Hillsborough would seem a lot easier.

A Hargett/Martin connector loop with a stop on the east side of Wilmington would make the pedestrian connector to the Moore Square bus terminal more useful and could easily move passengers between transit systems.

When you say that block is for sale, do you mean the old Marsh Woodwinds block? or the Jillians block?

I think the best site for the HS Rail platform is on the west side of the tracks on a sliver of property located E of Glenwood and N of Morgan St.  Due to site constraints, it has little development potential (at least right now), and could be connected to the main MTC complex via a track level walkway or stairs/elevator from Glenwood Ave.  I think the wye area could look like a totally transformed place in 5-10 years... a hub of activity for the entire city.

[JeffC]

The dead end of Glenwood into Morgan is an OBVIOUS location for a connector into the Multimodal Center, particularly since it aligns perfectly with the existing street grid (if you look at a map, "Saunders Street" (as Glenwood was originally called) lines up with South Saunders on the other side of the Amtrak Station.  Unfortunately, the stub end of S. Saunders is a very narrow street lined with somewhat run-down early 20th century houses, so not a good choice for a southern entry into the Wye area...

[orulz]

ChiefJoJo, on Jun 6 2007, 09:00 AM, said:

When you say that block is for sale, do you mean the old Marsh Woodwinds block? or the Jillians block?

I think the best site for the HS Rail platform is on the west side of the tracks on a sliver of property located E of Glenwood and N of Morgan St.  Due to site constraints, it has little development potential (at least right now), and could be connected to the main MTC complex via a track level walkway or stairs/elevator from Glenwood Ave.  I think the wye area could look like a totally transformed place in 5-10 years... a hub of activity for the entire city.

The platform will have to be quite a great deal longer than that. For example, the mainline platform at the new Greensboro station is about 1300 feet long. If the platform at the Raleigh station were that long it would stretch from Hillsborough Street to about where Martin would be if it didn't end at the tracks.

Things are pretty tight down there. When the Hillsborough Street bridge was rebuilt 5 or 6 years ago, they should have lengthened it to leave room for four tracks to pass below, but they didn't. There's only enough room for 3 (TTA was planning to narrow to a single track under that bridge) and even at that it's a tight fit.

Long term, the entire area between Boylan, Morgan, West, and NCRR would be useful for a station complex, particularly if we need platforms on all 3 legs of the wye. It will be difficult to do that without a lot of land. So Raleigh or TTA or NCDOT should acquire any property that becomes available in that area.