249 replies to this topic

[Jones133]

Well we know we're getting either a West Street tunnel or a bridge. Could make sense to adapt that final plan to have access inside this wedge of the wye.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I see that the city will be holding a public meeting on July 18th with more information about this proposal? Am I the only person here that is still confused about this N&O story? Part of me thinks that this story is just discussing the short term replacement of the Amtrak train station? If on the other hand they are actually talking about using this building as "The" new Union Station, then I don't see that they could add much in terms of a true multi-modal system? I don't see them being able to get multiple things in this building including..light rail, a central waiting space, access to multiple bus systems, the office space for these different companies required to be included...etc?

[Euphorius]

This seems about par for course here in Raleigh. Start out with an extravagant project that will accommodate a wide range of uses and still be around 50+ years from now, and then dumb it down to something that will serve one single purpose and have a useful lifespan of about 5-10 years before it's outgrown.

[Jones133]

I think this is part strategy to lay the groundwork for a bigger station in a few years. Sort of like slowly boiling  a frog instead of tossing into hot water.

[ctl]

Euphorius, on 01 July 2011 - 03:21 PM, said:

This seems about par for course here in Raleigh. Start out with an extravagant project that will accommodate a wide range of uses and still be around 50+ years from now, and then dumb it down to something that will serve one single purpose and have a useful lifespan of about 5-10 years before it's outgrown.

Another way of looking at it: float a pie-in-the-sky concept that gets everyone excited but has utterly no prospect of being built in the next 20 years. Then, quickly move on to something that solves an immediate need, will serve for 20 years while regime change takes effect, and can be built in a year or two. I actually ride Amtrak, and I know which interpretation makes sense to me.

[Euphorius]

I'm sure it will serve its purpose well as an Amtrak station throughout its useful life. It will definitely be better than the current station. I would just like to see something grand built in Raleigh, and it doesn't get much more grand than the union station concept.

[ERJ170]

Euphorius, on 05 July 2011 - 11:09 AM, said:

I'm sure it will serve its purpose well as an Amtrak station throughout its useful life. It will definitely be better than the current station. I would just like to see something grand built in Raleigh, and it doesn't get much more grand than the union station concept.

Well, just because it's being repurposed, doesn't mean it can't be grand.. It could easily be redone with about 7 shops, 3 eateries, a Grand First Class Lounge, a triple platform, a grand foyer with terrazo flooring with acorns/oak trees/etc on it.. and a redone entrance with colonial columns and such.. maybe a Tobacco Road store, a Hurricane shop, and a Carolinas Amtrak store selling t-shirts/trains/patches/books/etc for the rail enthusiastics/kids, etc..

Repurpose does not mean trailer-trash..

Now, what actually happens is a totally different thing..

One thing I REALLY, REALLY want to see is for RGH station to have a website that similar to RDU that shows when trains are arriving or scheduled to depart, news updates, terminal layouts, and links to the shops..

[ctl]

ERJ170, on 05 July 2011 - 05:52 PM, said:

One thing I REALLY, REALLY want to see is for RGH station to have a website that similar to RDU that shows when trains are arriving or scheduled to depart..

This might help:  http://www.dixieland...pl?mapname=East

[kdub1]

The new plan actually makes more of a case to produce two rail stations in Raleigh--the NETC and the downtown location. Since the Seaboard Station is already occupied and would be unfit to accomodate dozens of trains, a new permanent downtown station would be just fine, but even that would have to be downscaled as opposed to last year's Union Station scheme. The latest plan would preclude a bus hub composed of Greyhound and TTA buses.

[Jones133]

I think the need to service State government is over emphasized. Its two blocks down Jones from Harrington to Salisbury. Green Square is even closer. I think I like D2 since it splits Glenwood and the CBD down the middle using a street (Harrington) that has no through traffic. Is it possible to run a spur out New Bern later to Wake Med? That would get the service farther east eventually. Does D2 close any streets or is that just high speed rail?

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Does anyone have an opinion of the states new idea for Union Station? The Viaduct building will start the process as an Amtrak station?

[ERJ170]

DwnTwnRaleighGuy, on 20 January 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

Does anyone have an opinion of the states new idea for Union Station? The Viaduct building will start the process as an Amtrak station?

I like it. I just wish they would add a 7-10 story hotel on top.. Something like a W or Hotel Indigo or something like that.. And I'm not sure I see the First Class lounge that the current station has...

[Jones133]

I don't think a train station could ever be the reason to locate a hotel somewhere in this city. Maybe say where Buffalo Tire is, so its within sight distance of both the Convention Center (the real reason we need hotels) and the train station.
I think this option is very good if say the West Street connection is done at the same time. Its not just about traveling to the City but getting around in it after wards, and with West connected, the station isn't just stuffed down in a corner with only one way out by other modes.

[ERJ170]

Jones133, on 21 January 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

I don't think a train station could ever be the reason to locate a hotel somewhere in this city. Maybe say where Buffalo Tire is, so its within sight distance of both the Convention Center (the real reason we need hotels) and the train station.
I think this option is very good if say the West Street connection is done at the same time. Its not just about traveling to the City but getting around in it after wards, and with West connected, the station isn't just stuffed down in a corner with only one way out by other modes.

I believe some of the best accomodation options are those that are at multimodal locations. The Hilton at ORD is by far one of the most popular hotels because it is at hte airport. I think the convenience of having a hotel at the trainstation which is within walking distance of the convention center, restaurants, shops, and downtown would be benificial and make more the additional hotel rooms that Raleigh downtown needs. Plus having something like "Westin at Union Station" would be awesome.

Just a thought.

[Jones133]

It's certainly a tempting thought. I have long wanted to see the warehouse area sort of faux-ed up with fake gas lamps (or real ones) and more cobble stone streets or maybe cobbled crosswalks to sort of mold it into a destination area. CAM is part of the destination label too of course. So with that in mind, any destination needs a hotel. As the transportation outlet into the city, the idea seems even better. Ok, I talked myself into it..

[orulz]

This past week, the city of Raleigh voted to apply for a TIGER grant for Union Station. The total estimated cost is $70 million, and would include:
-Dillon Viaduct Building renovation
-Tracks, platforms, and connecting tunnels for the H-line platforms for Commuter/Intercity rail
-West Street extension

[Green_man]

Up to this point, I had missed the West St extension in each of the plans.  So is this a tunnel?

Also, looking at the City's 11/14/11 report update on the project, it shows the proposed LRT station (from alignment D6) on Morgan Street, but not connected to the Future Large-Scale Union Station (from Morgan to Martin).  Instead, the LRT station is on Morgan between Glenwood and Boylan.  Hmmm, thats quite a walk from Amtrak platform.

And is it still in the plans for the entire Union Station to extend from Morgan to Martin, eventually?  Dillon Viaduct renovation is just for Amtrak and possibly commuter rail, correct?  No provisions for Greyhound, city/regional bus, high-speed rail, or LRT yet?

[orulz]

The preferred route for the West Street Extension is a tunnel under the tracks, dipping down starting at West & Martin and coming back up at West & Cabarrus. A connection to South Saunders was considered but turned down. The city eventually wants to connect West up to South Saunders street, which I would guess will probably happen whenever Heritage Park is rebuilt, which probably won't be too long. It's a stick built low income apartment complex that's almost 40 years old, and is really showing its age.

[Jones133]

Heritage Park is the last downtown housing project (100% low income). Its creation removed several streets and older homes in the area.  I would not lose any sleep over a Chavis/Halifax style remake with fewer actual units on this site and others scattered around the city as replacements. At one time I saw a plan calling for Lake Wheeler Road to run continuously onto South Street heading east. I guess the West Street tunnel (if that is what goes forward) changes that. Whatever the plan, the preservation of the newly coming together neighborhood in the area comprising Lenoir and one lane South Saunders should be foremost in consideration.

[orulz]

Getting off topic here, but Heritage Park should be remade as a large multistory apartment complex, even including some retail/mixed use. It should have an affordable component and a market rate component. Include at least as many affordable units as are there now, plus market rate rentals. Glen Rock Depot in Asheville comes to mind as a successful, recent, multi-story, mixed use, mixed-income development. Only, for Heritage Park, think bigger

Currently it's 122 units on 12.2 acres, exactly 10 du/acre, which is only half of even its currently zoned density of R-20. It should really be added to the downtown overlay district and zoned for something much more dense and with much better urban form, given its proximity to downtown and the future Union Station.

I think the area between downtown and Boylan Heights is destined for further gentrification and this would be a huge step in that direction.