527 replies to this topic

[monsoon]

moonshield, on Sep 9 2006, 01:43 PM, said:

I've come to the conclusion that spending millions of dollars on a football team would be at the least, irresponsible. Funding per student is much below what it should be, thank you North Carolina, and many new facilities for learning and research are necessary - especially in the high-tech fields.

Actually, I can't think of any more inappropriate way to spend our funds than starting a football team. Getting smart students to enroll, and helping them develop their minds doesn't require a football team. Helping students maxamize their potential should be the goal of the university - not hosting big parties at the taxpayer's (and tuition payer's) expense.

If private schools want to have football teams, fine, but for a public school to spend millions on such a program would be simply outrageous. Atheletics have their place, but in no way are the benefits worth several hundred million dollars.

* This coming from a student of the university.

I agree with you 100 percent.   That website alone should be reason enough to spend the money to promote  academics at UNCC instead of football.  It's full of gramatical errors.

[monsoon]

aussie luke, on Sep 9 2006, 02:24 PM, said:

Weekends are what destroy UNCC's image.  Few people stay on campus because there isn’t anything to do during the day.  Give us a football game and I'm sure at least three fourths of the people that normally leave, would stay.  There would be more life on campus, thus, more things to do.  Students wouldn't have reason to leave.  While it is a huge investment to create a football program, it will help the campus life in so many other ways.

I did not go to UNCC for "image".  I went there because it represented a very good value for the education received and for someone such as myself, who was paying for everything, this was a very important reason for going to that school.    I graduated from there with honors and because of it, I got multiple job offers from a number of fortune 100 companies.   The school's lack of a football team, which I consider a benefit, had absolutely no effect on my education or where I ended up in life.    It's my guess that it is a small minority of people who want to bring football to that school, and my advice to these people is go find a party school if that is what is most important thing to you about college.

[dubone]

For me, it comes down to the notion that alumni do not support UNCC enough financially.  Its endowment is low, its fundraising goals are low, and thus the university and its alumni are often very concerned about the state funding.  It IS a zero sum game between football and academics if it is to come out of the state subsidies and tuition proceeds.    

I think that the notion of football at UNCC should be shelved until enough alumni pay for it.  

If you want something at your school, compaign for people to send them money to do so.  Otherwise, you can't rightly expect that it will happen.  

While the 2000 bond money helps to pay for basic campus infrastructure, and the state subsidies help to pay for the basics of education, it is the private giving and endowment that provide for the extras.   I've seen demands for green buildings, better architecture, football, more graduate programs, greater reputation for academics.  Those luxuries won't come to a school as large as UNCC unless there is very considerable private donations to fund extraordinary things.

I want to see UNCC succeed, but I don't plan to support it financially as I have no personal ties to it. (I support my alma mater in Chapel Hill).  It is the alumni of UNCC that must take the leadership position on donations to make these things happen.  And taking advantage of programs that most employers have to match donations.

Maybe it is just the relatively young age of UNCC that is keeping its donation revenue low, as not as many alumni are dead (when most people finally give away their money).  Duke and Chapel Hill have had many years behind them for their alumni to croak.    So I'd expect a big bump for UNCC (and all universities) in giving when boomers start dying in larger numbers.  Okay, this has gotten bleak, let me change course.

So, I'd say, keep the campaign for football, but please, DuBois, do not fund it with any current revenues.  Instead, create an alumni giving campaign to save up for a program.  Plan to play at BofA stadium or Memorial Stadium until there is enough private money for a stadium on campus.  Please pursue a quintupling your endowment so that better things can come to the university without relying on fickle state legislators that don't like Charlotte.

[AuLukey]

monsoon, on Sep 9 2006, 02:38 PM, said:

I did not go to UNCC for "image".  I went there because it represented a very good value for the education received and for someone such as myself, who was paying for everything, this was a very important reason for going to that school.    I graduated from there with honors and because of it, I got multiple job offers from a number of fortune 100 companies.   The school's lack of a football team, which I consider a benefit, had absolutely no effect on my education or where I ended up in life.    It's my guess that it is a small minority of people who want to bring football to that school, and my advice to these people is go find a party school if that is what is most important thing to you about college.

So, while bragging about how well you did in college, how much fun did you have?  What memories do you have?  What kinds of clubs were you a part of?  If we had a football team, would you have gone to the games?  Would you have enjoyed them?  Would you have been happy we had a team?  And no, that's not an attack on you, just a point.

This may be a little repetitive to my post on the UNC-RM thread, but college is not just about education.  Yes, I know, that is the ultimate goal, to strive to be all you can be to earn a 4.0 in your degree.  While the end result may be the same, I believe college serves two true purposes.  First, education, obviously.  Second, it shapes the individual.  

I believe modern day independence is formed by college.  A lot of people (but not all) that I know that didn't go off to college still rely on their parents to this day.  It helps you learn how to cut the umbilical cord and manage to survive in the real world.  College, and its many multicultural advantages, provides you with opportunities you will never have again.  It's the reason why my name on here is "aussie."  If not for the exchange program, I would've never gotten to go to college in Australia.  Students who want to be well rounded don't just focus on their classes.  There are many clubs, frats, sororities, etc that provide students with a means for them to make a difference in both their lives and the lives of others.  Sports organizations are another form of this.  So while college is important from the education standpoint, it's also important for helping to find out who you really are.  So, in a way, parties and clubs and sporting events are a critical way of finding new friends, finding out more about yourself, and exposing you to things you may not have been familiar with which could shape your overall view on life.

So, yes, a football game is an important thing to have both culturally and socially.  It draws in large crowds to the city, stimulating the local economy at least a little; it creates a means for students, faculty, and alumni to gather for a common goal, cheering on the team; it helps, in that matter, shape a community.  As stated before, a basketball game is just a basketball game, a football game is an event.

[monsoon]

aussie luke, on Sep 9 2006, 03:07 PM, said:

So, while bragging about how well you did in college, how much fun did you have?  What memories do you have?  What kinds of clubs were you a part of?  If we had a football team, would you have gone to the games?  Would you have enjoyed them?  Would you have been happy we had a team?  And no, that's not an attack on you, just a point.

I had already lived on my own 2-3 several  and had a large number of social ties to people in Charlotte not involved in the school so the idea of going to a college football game would have seemed a bit juvenile to me at the time.  I would not have bothered with it.   I got an EE degree and that left very little time for going out and getting drunk and acting like I was still in highschool.  When I did find the time to go out, it would have been in the more adult atmosphere within Charlotte itself.  I was not alone in this BTW.  

Again, I am not putting down anyone either, but I think of college as an ends to a means based on the peopleI met at UNCC many others feel this way as welll,...  especially those who have taken a few years off to experience life right after highschool.  For that lot, the highchool level antics of frat houses, college sports, and the like have already ceased to be important.  Considering the memories and the things that I got involved with prior to college but after I moved out from my parents home, I think I got the better end of the deal.   I had already been to highschool, no need to extend it 4 more years.    Many people disagree with this, and as I said earlier, go find a party school if that is what you need to do.

[swh1972]

I'm not certain that having a football program and being a party school are one in the same, but I won't comment any more on that.  

One thing that is important to consider, and I think metro was pointing out is that running a football program (at least at the Division 1 level) is very expensive, and considering that UNCC would be starting from scratch, would probably be a drain on the university budget for several years.  Without a significant level of support from alumni, I doubt it would be in the best interest to pursue.

[AuLukey]

The people pursuing football are not going for the Division I label.  Any new school that is smart about athletics starts in Division II for football and moves up once it is financially viable.

[Miesian Corners]

I'm ready for Niner football. More importantly, though, I'm ready for the thousands of alumni to begin supporting UNCC, period. I'm ready for sports bars in Charlotte to have 49er banners, not just Duke and Chapel Hill. I'm ready to see alumni wearing t-shirts that say UNC-Charlotte when they go to Home Depot, Lowe's, Harris Teeter, Festival in the Park, rock concerts, etc. I'm ready to see Belk, Wal-Mart, Dillard's, Target, and Dick's  selling aparrel that says "University of North Carolina at CHARLOTTE", instead of USC, UNC, Duke, and Wake Forest, Clemson and Appalachian.   My God, Dick's even had Western Carolina  crap, but not one UNCC shirt, hat, or shorts.

You can't tell me there are more 30-something Chapel Hill graduates here than there are UNCC grads. Yet all I see when I'm out and about is Carolina Blue. Our alumni just don't seem to give a damn.

Edited by Miesian Corners, 10 September 2006 - 09:03 AM.

[monsoon]

Miesian Corners, on Sep 10 2006, 10:55 AM, said:

.... Our alumni just don't seem to give a damn.....

Or could it be that most of them have gotten their education and have moved on in their lives and don't need to wave around their school colors for the rest of their lives?   It's not clear to me that UNCC is suffering because it does not have a football team and because of it the alumni doesn't care about the school.

[Miesian Corners]

monsoon, on Sep 10 2006, 11:10 AM, said:

Or could it be that most of them have gotten their education and have moved on in their lives and don't need to wave around their school colors for the rest of their lives? It's not clear to me that UNCC is suffering because it does not have a football team and because of it the alumni doesn't care about the school.

Tell that to Hugh McColl, metro.  I saw him at Home Depot on Wendover last week wearing a UNC cap.  It is very clear that UNCC is suffering because of no alumi support.  It has a dismal endowment when compared to other UNC-system schools.

[moonshield]

Miesian Corners, on Sep 10 2006, 11:44 AM, said:

Tell that to Hugh McColl, metro.  I saw him at Home Depot on Wendover last week wearing a UNC cap.  It is very clear that UNCC is suffering because of no alumi support.  It has a dismal endowment when compared to other UNC-system schools.

It's 4th among the UNC Schools, the list goes:

Chapel Hill (1.4x billion)
NC State (3xx mil)
UNC Greensboro ( 13x mil)
UNC Charlotte (100 mil)

I think that the new CRI should really help boost those numbers.

Edited by moonshield, 10 September 2006 - 10:43 AM.

[DanRNC]

Actually, UNC-Chapel Hill's is currently $1.8+ billion (Link). NCSU is on its way to $1 billion I believe. I am not surprised to see McColl wearing UNC clothing as he is an alumni.

[moonshield]

http://www.nacubo.or...TotalAssets.pdf

That's where I received my numbers.

Edited by moonshield, 10 September 2006 - 10:43 AM.

[Miesian Corners]

DanRNC, on Sep 10 2006, 12:37 PM, said:

I am not surprised to see McColl wearing UNC clothing as he is an alumni.

That was my point.  He's arguably the most successful business person in this city and he proudly wears the colors of his alma mater.  Why don't UNCC grads to the same?

[monsoon]

Miesian Corners, on Sep 10 2006, 12:55 PM, said:

That was my point.  He's arguably the most successful business person in this city and he proudly wears the colors of his alma mater.  Why don't UNCC grads to the same?

I note that Hugh has given a huge amount of money to other schools in this city as there is even a school of business named after him.  The fact that Queens University doesn't have a football team has not hurt them so I think the point that you saw him wearing a UNC cap is irrelevant.   I stand by what I said that the vast majority of people who go to college go to get an education and football is a moot point as the vast majority of people don't walk around town draped in college paraphanelia.     In that link that was posted above by moonshield I note that UNCC's endowment grew by 15% in one year which I think is pretty good for a university that is 45 years old.  Comparing it to the endowment of the 225 year old UNC doesn't really seem fair and I doubt it got to the size it has gotten because of football.

[dubone]

DanRNC, on Sep 10 2006, 12:37 PM, said:

Actually, UNC-Chapel Hill's is currently $1.8+ billion (Link). NCSU is on its way to $1 billion I believe. I am not surprised to see McColl wearing UNC clothing as he is an alumni.

The $1.8b is the number for the proceeds of the "Carolina First" giving campaign.  Much of that money is for direct expenditure, such as to match funds with the Y2000 Bond money to build higher quality buildings, fund scholarships and professorships, etc.  Only $.73b of that $1.8b was used to increase the endowment, with a goal of $.8b.  Here is the breakdown of the money (which shows that they have in the last 7 years DOUBLED the value of their endowment to $1.49b by this campaign):  http://carolinafirst...ress_report.pdf

Perhaps metro's sentiments are common among UNCC grads, that they are done with the school after the educational transaction.  I know that is far from the culture among UNC grads.   They consider it a lifelong mission to give back to the school, support the athletics, and ingrain it in every infant that they should covet to go there.

It still keeps coming back to money for me.  UNCC had a recent fundraising campaign.  They pursued $100m in the "It Takes A Gift" campaign and were really excited to have surpassed it to take in $116m.  Contrast that to UNC's "Carolina First" campaign which was $1.8b and changed to $2b due to success.   That campaign has made far more than UNCC's campaign in 2006 alone.  

This isn't a vs thing.  This is simply that I often hear comments on what is built in Chapel Hill and why can't that be built in Charlotte.  But look at the billions of dollars in private giving that goes into Chapel Hill from its alumni.  

Bringing it back to the point, football is almost always a reason for alumni to return to their alma mater and maintain a connection.  It would not be for metro.  It would not be for many people. (Even I have never gone back to Chapel Hill for football, but rather basketball).   But it is conventional wisdom that football programs keep alumni involved and giving back to the university.  But metro might also be right, that football is just a small factor in alumni giving.    

Maybe the non-giving culture is both the reason that football hasn't come to UNCC, and perhaps wouldn't even work well to change it.   But in my view, something must change to get giving to quadruple.  I'm not joking, I think UNCC should be actively pursuing an endowment of at least $500m.  The interest proceeds from a $100m endowment are not going to cover much at a university as big as UNCC.

[Vern9r]

The reason that UNC Charlotte grads (many, not all) do not supports the University is the same reason that many of the students don't - school pride, and no sense of connection.  Athletics are what most universities in this nation are known for.  I personally don't know what degrees Notre Dame, Syracuse, Cincinnati, etc, etc, specialize in, but I do know what sports they excel in.  That's what gives people pride and encourages them to give back to their school.  

Sure, we can wait another 200 years to get a larger endowment and raise 1000 dollars a year until we have a football team in the year 2250, but there is no reason why UNC Charlotte alumni need to wait and play it safe.  Every other football school in this state could surely use more money for education, but they are not shutting down their athletics programs to improve their degrees.

As alumni build pride and establish a connection to the University, guess what...they are likely to give back to the University in general.  At least then they would actually go back to the university after graduation and realize what is going on on campus.  

How many college football fans do you think there are on the UNCC campus?  I'll throw out a random number - 8,000.  When football season comes around, these 8,000 people pick another team, buy their merchandise, watch them on TV.  It really does break the tie to your school when you are pulling for a completely different school for several months out of the year.

Starting a college football program is of course expensive, but Charlotte is a wealthy city and the area has over 75,000 UNC Charlotte alumni, in addition to the 22,000 current students.  Add in the million-plus people in the area, and there's no reason why a football program shouldn't be a success.

Edited by Vern9r, 10 September 2006 - 12:48 PM.

[Vern9r]

monsoon, on Sep 10 2006, 11:10 AM, said:

Or could it be that most of them have gotten their education and have moved on in their lives and don't need to wave around their school colors for the rest of their lives?

The fact that UNC Charlotte grads "move on..." as you say puts us in a sad tier of higher education.  I work with graduates for many schools - Wake Forest, FSU, UNC Chapel Hill, Boston College, and every one of them has a huge amount of pride in their school, especially when football season comes around.  Our boss and co-workers makes small bets with each other when their two teams play each other.  

What I'm saying is that I don't think most people find anything wrong with waving your school colors after you're done with college.  I wish that UNCC grads could do the same.

Edited by Vern9r, 10 September 2006 - 01:00 PM.

[Miesian Corners]

Vern9r, on Sep 10 2006, 02:59 PM, said:

The fact that UNC Charlotte grads "move on..." as you say puts us in a sad tier of higher education. I work with graduates for many schools - Wake Forest, FSU, UNC Chapel Hill, Boston College, and every one of them has a huge amount of pride in their school, especially when football season comes around. Our boss and co-workers makes small bets with each other when their two teams play each other.

What I'm saying is that I don't think most people find anything wrong with waving your school colors after you're done with college. I wish that UNCC grads could do the same.

I couldn't agree more.  For birthdays this year, I have given all of my friends who are grads of UNCC a long sleeve t shirt with the words "UNC Charlotte Alum" on the front.  That amounts to four people this year.  None of them had any UNCC items untill I tried to sling a little 49er pride on them.  I actually think they all really liked their gifts.  

I want to have pride in the school I attend.  I want there to be more to UNCC than 8:30 to 5 Mon-Thu (we don't have Fri classes anymore).  By no means am I disparaging the educational quality of the university, but it would be nice to see excitement built up around 49ers, rather than ennui.  It would be nice to see alumni visit the campus and see what's new or changed.  Maybe its just me.  I'm a 40 year old returning to college.  I guess it could be I'm searching for what I missed 20 years ago.  Even so, I don't think a little boosterism is a bad thing.  I'd rather have boosterism and pride over an idiotic new entrance and a bricked up library any day of the week.  I say bring on the pigskin...and I don't even really care about football.

[monsoon]

Vern9r, on Sep 10 2006, 02:45 PM, said:

Starting a college football program is of course expensive, but Charlotte is a wealthy city and the area has over 75,000 UNC Charlotte alumni, in addition to the 22,000 current students.  Add in the million-plus people in the area, and there's no reason why a football program shouldn't be a success.

You are making the assumption that people donate based on a football team.  I still have not see where anyone has proved that connection.   Several of the schools listed on Moonshields which have bigger endowments than UNC are not known for their football teams.   My guess is someone walking around with a MIT or Harvard shirt on isn't doing it for football.