4 replies to this topic

[metrogrkid]

As a result of my reading through some of the comments of the Lansing-UP Forum, I am launching this thread to bring some clarity and understanding to some Lansing-based views about Metropolitan Grand Rapids as well as to impart a sense of calming to the “Lansing vs. GR” sentiment that seems to be growing here among the Lansing forumers.  Above all else, please know that I understand the frustration of having to endure the arrogance of a larger prosperous city as I have been in your shoes with Detroiters always telling me that GR would never amount to anything and that it was “the country”.  In many ways, you have your own Metrogrkid as represented in Lansing forumer Hood.  Like myself with GR, he yearns for Lansing to become a world-class hub as well. To him I say, “hold on to your vision and hopes for Greater Lansing because with the proactive alignment of effectible variables (including creative capital attraction, economy diversification, urban core renovation and cultivation of regional pride), the Capital Area too will prosper and grow from a ‘Greater’ area to a ‘Metro’ area”.  GR is proof positive that it can happen – let the arrogance of many of my GR peers inspire you to attain a larger future just as the  often insufferably arrogant posturing of many Detroiters inspired may of us in GR to rise to the occasion.

With that said, I can now move on to address this Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) vs. Combined Statistical Area (CSA) craziness.  Note that Metro Grand Rapids is NOT an artificial designation.  It reflects the true inter-related economic and social nature of the triangle of 100+ municipalities that exist between Grand Rapids, Muskegon and Holland (literally Lowell, Saugatuck and Whitehall) and that sprawl out over Kent, Muskegon, Ottawa and Allegan counties with 1.2 million inter-connected people within.  The rapidly shrinking pockets of greenspace in between notwithstanding, the GR region is and has been functioning as a true metro area since at least 1996 (when it first crossed the one million population mark) as evidenced by EVERY one of the 100+ metro municipalities 1) actively and energetically participating  in either West Michigan Strategic Alliance or Grand Valley Metro Council and 2) referring to the GR/Muskegon/Holland triangle as “Michigan’s West Coast” or the “Michigan Metro Triplex” (a West Michigan Strategic Alliance term).

What IS artificial is fracturing the natural metro area into “sub-metros” or the new and more compact “MSAs”.  It is so simple people – CSA IS THE NEW MSA.  I cannot underscore that truth enough - take Nordstrom, Lord & Taylor, Parisien, the Bradley Casino, Michigan’s Adventure and the West Michigan Strategic Alliance as examples. These entities completely ignore MSA now and use CSA to plan their participations in the metro area since MSA has been rendered limited in its ability to embrace a complete overview of a given urban area.  Greater Lansing is no different – under the limited MSA designation, Greater Lansing is only Lansing and East Lansing.  Any thinking urbanite in Michigan knows that only Lansing’s CSA currently reflects its true scale and inter-related pieces (properly enfolding Holt, Grand Ledge, Charlotte, Dimondale, etc.).  Let’s move on from the nit-wit “genius” demographer’s MSA debacle and use what has replaced it thus allowing for us all to be truly represented as we truly exist as regions (look at how laughable the MSA version of Detroit is compared to the reality of the CSA Detroit – let’s get real here).

Another point is on the MSU School of Human Medicine piece.  Let’s begin with the fact that MSU is a part of the identity of THE CAPITAL AREA.  Nothing will ever change that.  Any part of MSU that relocates to another part of the state effectively creates a colony of the Capital area in that relocation destination.  Thus having a branch of MSU  Medical School in GR will 1) turn the Hillside District of downtown GR into an ersatz “colony” of the Capital area and 2) will give MSU the ability to compete in the long-term with U of M medically.  Keep in mind that MSU is not MSU for nothing.  It is one of the most intelligently and pragmatically run institutions in Michigan with a large base of influential alumni in GR.  These factors simply combined and set off a light over the MSU Board of Regents’ collective heads wherein they saw an opportunity to create a MSU medical hub in GR that could compete in years instead of multiple decades with the Ann Arbor complex.  To recreate in Lansing in one location the Spectrum Health-Butterworth campus, the Grand Rapids Community College-Caulkins Health Science Center, the Grand Valley State University Cook-DeVos Health Sciences Pavilion, VanAndel Cancer Research Institute and the new RDV-Christman/Lemmon-Holt Cancer Pavilion development would cost multi-billions of dollars and would be a burdensome expenditure compared to just inserting the medical component of MSU in the middle of all that GR biotech infrastructure (i.e. – instant U of M competition and parity for MSU).

Lastly, I’d like to point out that the combined advantages of Lansing’s being the seat of State government AND being midway between its two largest cities gives it a super opportunity to be the hub of a cross-state commuter rail system.  Such a rail link – to run from Metro Grand Rapids’ Central Station and Metro Detroit’s upcoming transit hub to a downtown Lansing site (an expanded or relocated CATA hub?) – could be the spur for major transit-oriented development around the Lansing site as well as it’s GR and Detroit counterparts.  This notion is both logical and potentially lucrative given the number of senators, representatives, government employees, lobbyists and students that need to have access to the Capital area from GR and Detroit daily.  The equally huge potential of connecting Michigan’s next city in line for “big city” status – Traverse City – is another conversation altogether.

In the meantime, let’s move on from “Lansing vs. Grand Rapids” to “Lansing, Grand Rapids AND Detroit”.  Don't hate, participate.  Thank you.

-Metrogrkid

Edited by metrogrkid, 29 June 2006 - 11:36 AM.

[hood]

About the actual "GR vs. Lansing" thing, I don't have problem with GR, I look at GR as an example of what Lansing could become, I think that Lansing should be able to easily have 2/3 of what GR has in downtown development (based simply on population), if not more, since Lansing has such a large wokforce dopwntown, two large colleges downtown and MSU next door. I'll be the first to admit that there are a couple GR forumers in specific that I have some issues with, but I easily look past that, if I didn't I wouldn't post in GR forum as often as I do.

About the MSU Medical School, it never really bothered me to begin with, MSU is putting a relitevely small part of their medical school, which is already small in GR. If MSU's medical school does grow to a major one, I know that it might have never happened in Lansing anyways, so I couldn't really complain about it going to GR.

And finally, my favorite subject when it comes to GR, the MSA. I still don't beleive that the 1.2 million GR CSA comparable to the Lansing CSA at 550k. Lansing's CSA is more comparable to GR's MSA (GR-Wyoming). Because, if Lansing's CSA were to be comparable to GR's it would have to include at least Jackson,  but because of Lansing's position between 3 counties it's hard to include other entire counties, but the Lansing CSA should also inlcude at least parts of Shiwassee and Ionia and maybe even a part of Livingston county. But, I don't go by CSAs or MSAs, because I don't care about who travels from where to work and live wherever. I care about built up area, and for that there is urban area population, which Lansing's is ~330,000 and GR's is a little over 550,000. Thats a fair comparison between the two cities.

[GR8scott]

yeah Hood I like to use those numbers as well I never understood why they would count entire counties in the GR metro because places like PLainwell in southern Allagan county are aesily indentified as subburban Kalamazoo sice its 10 min up 131 while its 30 min from GR. I also happen to think that Muskegan and even Holland function as their own metro areas and should almost be considered a CSA. As for Lansing I've always thought that for its size, it has a bigger city attitude than GR. Its got a lot throughout the city and the little things like taller apartment buildings, wider roads, bigger colleges and more of a connection to Detroit all make it seem more urban throughout most of the city. GR has a different feel than Lansing, Flint, Detroit ect.  I don't know if I follow you metrokid but I think your saying they should not compete so I would agree saying they are different.

[hood]

I totally understand about Lansing having a more "urban" feel than GR. I've often heard Lansing reffered to as the "biggest little city you will find," and GR reffered to as the opposite. I think that attitude may be at the root of GR's success, you have a built atmosphere around GR's downtown thats very urban, but an almost small town mentality, with people being curteous and such. GR has definately found a niche market that is serving it very well.

[coolbrezze]

Glad to find this thread, due to many issues I thought of are written here.

I still think Grand Rapids is a nice city, and like to make visits there all the time. Although now my favor of the city has decreased ( ofcourse I've always favored Lansing over Grand Rapids, but I did see Grand Rapids as the second best city in the state). While around online, I would notice the large distinction people would make on whether they are part of West or East Michigan. Then those in West Michigan, would mention how the other side of the state is horrible. While residents of Grand Rapids would if not always most of the time downgrate the city of Lansing. ( I could write more, but I'll make this comment short)
Not only have many residents in Grand Rapids downgrated the city enough, but didn't hesitate to point out that MSU new medical school has moved there along with their headquaters. Knowing the movement of MSU medical school was surprising, but with my rising concerns of Grand Rapids I wouldn't say I'm dissapointed in the movement nor pleased.

I do like Grand Rapids feel ( and ofcourse Lansing's), it's a large city with alot to do downtown ( including skyline) but feels suburban somewhat like. Maybe it's the cities layout. On google map I looked at Grand Rapids roads ( mainly yellow ones) and Lansing's ( mainly yellow ones) and notice the difference.

Edited by coolbrezze, 26 December 2008 - 08:50 PM.