124 replies to this topic

[Recchia]

I'm beginning to be able to see myself in a small town in the middle of nowhere.  Some place that I can still walk to everything but it's far away from any suburb or major urban area.  For now I'm stickin to the city though, I like blending in, having tons of people all around me and knowing that if I suddenly couldn't afford a car, I could still get by.

[Cadeho]

Oh.. well you know it's 15 minutes plus to any meaningful shopping in the city with everything way out on the other side of town's suburbs.


But I just have the feeling that if I lived in the country... and something happened, no one would know.  It's like... The Country, where no one can hear you scream.

[SouthParkRocks]

Snowguy716, on Jul 30 2006, 05:06 AM, said:

Shhhhh!  Don't give it away!

Not a whole lot.. around 5 acres total, but it's wedged between two lakes on a peninsula, and most of it is thick woods.  We only use a small portion for the yard and we leave a wide buffer near the lake, except where we have our little swimming/access area.  We drop the boat in about 1/4 mile up the trail at the public access and just leave hte boat at the cabin.

I think my favorite feature of the whole thing is the 200+ year old Norway pine tree hovering over the lake and cabin.  I figured... when that thing goes I might as well sell the place and move on.

That place sounds great to me.   I'm packing my fishing pole and shorts and coming by for a summer visit  

I'm all about either being in the city (or a bustling village/town) or out in the country by a lake.  And with a place like yours you are probably fighting off folks like me who are rudely inviting themselves for a visit so undoubtedly you are not a lonely hermit.

[verge]

SouthParkRocks, on Jul 17 2006, 03:23 PM, said:

That seems to be a common and logical sequence for young couples that then decide to have kids, but I would like to hear from others on this forum that have kids or have raised kids in urban areas and the 'burbs and see what their take is on it.
  
I don't have kids and that has made it easy for me to decide to live in the city (street car suburb) but it seems to me that kids can thrive in urban settings, and can just as easily get into very negative behavior/situations in the suburbs.  Of course most parents wish to have the yard, the safety, and the good schools; but parks, actual crime rates as opposed to perceived crime rates, and parental involvement in education and cultural opportunities can make a city a desirable place to grow up.

I am always pleased to see kids in very urban settings seem to be so at ease and taking in all the environment around them with fervor- the interactions with the vast majority of the adult population that genuinely cares for the well-being of children helps raise confident and secure citizens, despite what some country or surburban folks may perceive as the dangerous and negatively influencing environment of a city.

And I can easily remember growing up in a rural town and the suburbs and how much trouble one can get into despite what may appear to be a bucolic and safe environment.

So parents, what are your experiences?

I live 2 miles from the core of a major (if sunbelt) city... My neighborhood, once almost entirely devoid of kids, has plenty now--- and decent public schools to boot (at least in this part of the city)... More and more folks seem to be making the city their choice with or without kids...

[urbanvb]

I voted for the city. I grew up in a very rural area but experiencing city life as an adult has changed the way I feel about it. In saying that though I think living within walking distance to restaurants, shops, etc is really what I am after. Some inner ring cities can provide that as well.

[FromCityToRural]

Snowguy716, on Jul 30 2006, 01:47 PM, said:

I can see the neighbors and walk to them in about 45 seconds.  We all get together and have BBQs and stuff and do fireworks together at the 4th of July...  It's a community.  Sure, it's 15 minutes to any meaningful shopping, but that's the nice thing about it

Exactly...that's how it is here too. We've never been physically so far away from our neighbors, but know them much better already than we've ever known our neighbors back when we lived in town. It's kind of neat.

5 acres is a nice little piece of land...enjoy it...we do! Your place sounds pretty awesome.

[SkyDave]

When I was younger I loved the urban lifestyle. Now that I am nearing retirement, I now love my peaceful, quiet, 3 acre homestead away from it all. Whenever I need to go to the city to connect, I do it but I'm always glad to be back on the old homestead.

[NcSc74]

I grew up in a high density setting on Fort Bragg so I am used to having people close by. We had a yard but it wasn't that big. My dad only used it to grill or entertain. There was park in the neighborhood when we want more space. That is the life I want for my kids. Nothing against rural or suburban living I just like the interaction you get with a more urban setting.

[runawayjim]

i grew up in the suburbs of new haven, CT.  it was about as suburban as you could get with some smaller walkable areas in the town (although my neighborhood was very suburban).

i spent my college years in rural storrs, CT and i've been in providence for 2.5 years now.  i love it here and would love to live int he city for a bit.  right now, i live in one of hte outer, more suburban neighborhoods which is walkable to a few things, but others i need to take the bus or drive (i usually drive).  i will probably move to the suburbs when it's time to buy a house (which should be about a year or so after i get married, which is in 2 years) because by then, i'll be thinking about having kids.  however, i plan on trying to buy near a walkable community wherever i might move (i'm currently thinking east providence, but i guess it depends on where i can find something that both me and the fiancee like and can afford).  my fiancee wants a yard and possibly a pool.  i want to live in a fairly walkable community, and i'd liek to live near some water.

the country boy in me (and i've never really been a country boy) would like to live in the middle of nowhere... like the mountains of vermont or NH.  so i'm thinking (and this will take some money) that i might buy a condo or home in vermont or new hampshire near both a lake and ski resort (i want the skiing, she wants the lake).

Edited by runawayjim, 03 August 2006 - 02:16 PM.

[MadVlad]

Though I currently live in the burbs, with a different set of luck I'd be right smack in downtown Hartford....

[Snowguy716]

I think Minnesotans' love affair with all things nature was laid out in front of me yesterday... and our love affair with not updating freeways as well...

I drove my brother to the airport in Minneapolis, from Bemidji, a 4 hour drive.  Well, it was my mistake to be leaving Minneapolis to the north at 4:30pm on a Friday in the summer... I'll never do it again.

It was stop and go or at least under 40 from the airport through the Lowry tunnel downtown and then again on 694 from about Hwy 100 to Albertville, an exurb about, oh, 25 miles northwest of Minneapolis.  Once 494 and 94/694 merged, it was worse.  It was stop and go.. and more stop than go.  I was literally stopped for a good minute and hten you'd creep forward 20 feet and then do it over again.

There was no accident, no stalled cars.. nothing.. just EVERYBODY leaving hte city for the weekend.  Traffic was heavy enough that you couldn't travel the speed limit until the Hasty/Silver Creek exit, about 45 miles northwest of Minneapolis... then it was off the freeway onto Minnesota HWY 24 at Clear Water.. the common connection between I-94 and U.S 10 that takes you to the lakes country.. Hwy 24 was a parking lot from Clear Water to Clear Lake, about a 5 mile stretch.  The ramp getting onto Hwy 24 from I-94 was backed up a good half mile onto the freeway just to get onto this road...

Then Highway 10 was EXTREMELY congested.. rarely exceeding 55mph given the 65mph speed limit.. and being held back by stoplights.

Then it was State 371 which was better but still very congested.. finally we could reach cruising speeds of 70-75mph...

Once past Brainerd (where all the wimpy outdoorsy types go), it was free sailing.. except it's 2 lane and it was raining and it was getting dark and there's always that chance that a deer will bolt out into the road right in front of you to the dismay of the deer and your car.

The traffic is out of control.. people flooding north for the weekends is creating unprecidented traffic on roads that are empty in the off season.  It's SO nice to drive down Hwy 10 in March... there's nobody on the road.

A coalition of citizens in my city called Bemidji Leads! has called for a 4 lane hwy all the way to the city by a certain date.. something unreachable like 2010 or something.  I think we need to rebuild the tracks that Burlington Northern and the Soo Line so unceremoniously ripped up in the past 20 years.. and get people on the train!  Trains don't deal with congestion... and they can go 80mph on regular tracks... and could easily reach speeds of 110mph with conventional tracks and high-tech trains.

Ugh... Europe spoiled me.

By the way, it should be known.. tourism in northenr Minnesota is huge.  You'd be surprised how many out-of-staters come here.. you mostly see North Dakota.. but you also see a lot of California, Kansas, Iowa, Texas, and Illinois...

This summer in Bemidji I've seen several Massachusetts, Maryland, New Jersey, Michigan (of course Wisconsin, our twin to the east), New York, Florida, Arizona.. even Delaware!  We also have a lot of Alaskans here and Washingtonians.. I often see Oregon.. South Dakota.. occasionally Wyoming, plenty of Colorado.. I even saw a van from Switzerland with Swiss plates.. that was a first... they were touring the whole U.S and were stopped at one of hte local grocery stores (the locally owned and operated 'high class' one at that!)

Our town swells to around 70,000 on big vacation weekends (Memorial and Labor day weekends), and is consistently around 50,000 during peak summer months with around 100,000 in the area for the 4th.  This is compared to a year round population of 30,000...  Towns like Park Rapids, with an area population of 10,000 can have 3 times that number during the summer.

It's because people love what I've been blessed to grow up with:  Peace and quiet, undisturbed woods and lakes.. good fishing, hiking, biking, XC skiing opportunities...

But this is sounding like an advertisement.. the suburbs are nice too.. in their fake, shell of a community sort of way.

[jfmecca]

I'm out in the burbs, but if I could move my house, yard and trees into a nice city block within walking distance of... anything... , I'd gladly do it.

[bmorescottamanda]

The only reason I hate living in the city is the crime. Cities need to keep trying to gett there crime down.

[JDC]

FromCityToRural, on Jul 16 2006, 04:43 AM, said:

Suburbs, without a doubt. Why?

Typically cheaper housing
Less hustle and bustle, and noise
Situated near enough to everything to still be convenient
May not have city taxes which are typically higher
Better on the crime front
Somewhat more freedom
Less crowded and cramped

This is my translation of the above:

Homogenous, mass-produced housing
People don't know their neighbor's names
Only a 15 minute drive to the Super Wal-Mart
Underfunded emergency response system
Even criminals don't want to live there!
...if you don't mind driving everywhere
Not in my backyard!

[JDC]

I grew up in the suburbs and had to get a ride everywhere I wanted to go with the exception of a few friends houses close by. None of the streets had sidewalks, so riding my bike in the street was forbidden until I was about 13.

After going to college in a very walkable town, and now living downtown in a city of over 200,000, I don't ever plan on going back to being a slave to the steering wheel. Sure, walkable neighborhoods in some suburbs are nice, and I sometimes wish my dog and I had a yard to play in (instead we walk two blocks to the park), but I wouldn't trade in this kind of location for a big house on an acre of land if it meant getting in a car everyday.

[runawayjim]

JDC, on Aug 28 2006, 08:38 PM, said:

This is my translation of the above:

Homogenous, mass-produced housing
People don't know their neighbor's names
Only a 15 minute drive to the Super Wal-Mart
Underfunded emergency response system
Even criminals don't want to live there!
...if you don't mind driving everywhere
Not in my backyard!

JDC, on Aug 28 2006, 08:48 PM, said:

I grew up in the suburbs and had to get a ride everywhere I wanted to go with the exception of a few friends houses close by. None of the streets had sidewalks, so riding my bike in the street was forbidden until I was about 13.

After going to college in a very walkable town, and now living downtown in a city of over 200,000, I don't ever plan on going back to being a slave to the steering wheel. Sure, walkable neighborhoods in some suburbs are nice, and I sometimes wish my dog and I had a yard to play in (instead we walk two blocks to the park), but I wouldn't trade in this kind of location for a big house on an acre of land if it meant getting in a car everyday.

i grew up in the suburbs, knew all my neighbors, had friends across town who i visited on my bike and had about an acre of land (1/4 of which was woods).  my neighbor's houses were under 100 yards from mine (if not under 50 yards).  

yes, many of the houses looked the same, but guess what?  a line of triple deckers that look the same is the same thing... same thing with a line of colonials or victorians on the same street.  

the emergency response in my town was mostly volunteer (at least for the fire dept), but had great response times.

many suburbs, mine included, have the benefits of both suburban life and walkable communities.  you don't need over 100k or 200k to have a great walkable area.  you lack in some respects, usually the cultural aspects, but when you live 10 min from a city or on a bus or light rail line, you can easily get there to enjoy it all without "being a slave to the steering wheel".  also, i think you are conveniently forgetting that some people are really enthusastic about their cars.  i happen to love mine and will never get rid of it even if i do someday move to the downtown area.  i need my car and i enjoy driving my car.  i'll occasionally go for a drive just for fun with no destination.

your response to the guy who happens to like teh suburbs was quite smug.  the suburbs also generally have a better school system, less crime (your comeback for that was quite weak, because criminals do live there), and can be quite convenient and very urban in ways.  the schools and lack of crime alone are reason enough for most families to want to live there.  i would never buy a home to start my family in a city if i didn't have some sort of a yard for my children to play in relatively unsupervised and for my dog to run around in.  the neighborhood i live in right now is perfect for that, but still in the city limits and on 2 major bus lines.  it's suburban living in the city.  suburban living does not mean driving a car.

[JDC]

Evidently our experiences in the 'burbs were quite different.

And while my response was smug, sure, it's not meant to be a "which one is better" - it's just my personal translation, and was said half-jokingly. I understand the quality of life benefits of the suburbs, but the convenience of city living, for me anyway, outweigh the peace and quiet, the better school systems, and lower crime rates.  

You're lucky to have such great amenities along with a suburban lifestyle. The suburban areas near where I live now are largely covered with big-box chains, fast food joints, multi-lane roads and cul-de-sac communities with names like "Fox Run Creek Manor" and "Brier Cliff Meadows."

[FromCityToRural]

I suppose that you could interpret that stuff that way...but evidently city living holds as little appeal for myself as suburbs do for you. I just can't be comfortable in a 500sf studio with neighbors on the other side of the wall and every aspect of everything regulated, and nearly everything taxed. Out here in the country where I live it's the simple freedoms that you don't get in the city that make it worth it to me. For instance, I don't have to go to the city park for a walk...we live in our own 8 acre park. Having said that, it can be a bit isolated here, and I suppose I see the suburbs as a happy medium between the two. As for culture...I grew up in an older suburban-type setting where white folks like me were the minority. Most of our neighbors were Asians and Mexicans, so I got plenty of outside culture...and if it's high culture you wanted, you could head up to San Francisco or just down to San Jose to get it. So, to each their own...

And I plan on restoring classic cars, tuning muscle cars, and building hot rods for a living. Cars are what I love, and any excuse for me to go out driving is a good one As corny as it sounds, I find peace behind the wheel and do my best thinking there. My old '68 Mustang pretty much saved my sanity once by giving me something to focus on and take pride in. So you could say I'm a car guy. Maybe bordering on "car-obsessed guy".

[Jerseyman4]

krazeeboi, on Jul 17 2006, 03:50 PM, said:

You can be within walking distance of things in some suburbs. Suburbs need not be suburban in nature.

This is true. Some suburbs in NJ have downtown areas where people work, shop and play. Its not unusual for people to not own cars and just ride a bike, take a bus or a cab.

Cadeho, on Jul 28 2006, 10:03 PM, said:

Man the suburbs are getting creamed!  Just one vote?

[ZachariahDaMan]

All 18 years of my life I have lived in the suburbs.  As people from the Detroit forum know I have never been to the city.  That's right..never in my life have I been to Detroit.  It's because of my parents typical suburban views of Detroit.  "No going to Detroit, too much crime, murders there".  Little do they know just how safe downtown Detroit is.  It's weird, looking at my flickr you can see I have been to many many towns in southeast Michigan.  I was suppose to have already gone to Detroit this summer, someone was suppose to give me a tour but he had to cancel on me.

Even though I have been in the 'burbs all my life I'd still choose to live in the city.  But if there was a historic suburb with a nice downtown then it'd be tempting.