337 replies to this topic

[Greenville]

waccamatt, on Jul 30 2006, 08:21 PM, said:

I think what most people fail to realize is that, even though they may be paying higher taxes, their homeowners or renters insurance is cheaper because of the better fire and police protection. They also don't have to pay for trash collection.

I believe it is actually cheaper to live in the city of Greenville, and pay higher taxes, than to live outside of the Greenville city limits and pay less in taxes but extra for garbage collection.  A lot of people just look at the taxes though, and conclude that they would rather not be in the city limits.

[breed]

monsoon, on Jul 30 2006, 04:32 PM, said:

Being annexed by the city would not release the people from having to pay county taxes.   They would have to pay both which is the primary justification given for not being annexed.   Being annexed usually means getting city garbage pickup, better police protection, fire protection, water & sewer, and street lights.   These things do exist sometimes in unincorporated places but they are usually provided either privately, via volunteer efforts (fire) or sometimes by the city extended out but at higher prices (like water and sewer).

While that's true... the amount of millage paid to the county drops when you become part of a municipality... you still pay for some county services, but not all.  Your tax bill in most cases goes up... but it isn't a system where you pay your full county taxes... and then more municipal taxes on top of that.

Edited by breed, 30 July 2006 - 09:45 PM.

[vicupstate]

distortedlogic, on Jul 30 2006, 02:08 PM, said:

Good point, but it still begs the question of why are so many other SC cities doing it where gville can't. (ie Cola, Chas, Mauldin, Greer, RH, etc). If they can, so can Gville (it seems to me). I would think a good case could be made for annexation, aren't Gville county taxes higher than city taxes? If so, that is a huge reason ritght there, pay lower taxes and have more services.

Those cities you listed primarily use water and or sewer as the 'carrot' for annexation.  Primarily to developers who annex their planned subdivisions before any lots are sold.  Greenville did not do the same in the 1950's and '60's when Taylors, the EAstside, etc. where developing.  Now those areas don't have much incentive to annex because they already get the city services they need most.  

In the case of Charleston, the taxes  actually are cheaper than what the Public Service Districts (PSDs) charge for water/sewer/fire.   This is primarily because of Charleston's shift from property taxes to the Local Option Sales Tax.   PSD's don't share in these revenues and therefore can't compete on cost any longer.  

If Greenville is to annex significant amounts of developed areas, Greenville would need to pass the L.O.S.T., IMO.

[distortedlogic]

That makes more sense guys, thanks for the info. Still, I wonder if Gville would "advertise" the benefits of being in the city, and show comparisons on taxes/mills, etc, it might convince people to want to annex (kinda like the Chantecleer neighborhood). If the city were to "sell itself", perhaps that would help.

[krazeeboi]

distortedlogic, on Jul 31 2006, 05:24 PM, said:

That makes more sense guys, thanks for the info. Still, I wonder if Gville would "advertise" the benefits of being in the city, and show comparisons on taxes/mills, etc, it might convince people to want to annex (kinda like the Chantecleer neighborhood). If the city were to "sell itself", perhaps that would help.

Here is what Orangeburg's mayor is doing. I think Greenville should go in this general direction as well to start with.

[distortedlogic]

krazeeboi, on Jul 31 2006, 03:47 PM, said:

Here is what Orangeburg's mayor is doing. I think Greenville should go in this general direction as well to start with.

Exactly! Good find krazeeboi.  

[Spartan]

That is good news for Orangeburg. I wish other towns and cities in SC would do the same. Do the math. Its worth it to be in the city.

I am also impressed that the comments on that article are both positive. Thats more than can be said for the other papers' comment sections in this state.

Here are some of the annexation websites for various cities in SC. Which do you think is more effective?

Charleston
Charleston - targeting James Island

Greenville

Columbia

Spartanburg [pdf]

Florence

Rock Hill

Could not find Orangeburg's. They should add this type of info to their website if they expect to achieve anything.

Greenville has the best website, IMO. Charleston's site that is geared towards James Island is the best overall, but its reach is narrow. They should transfer that to their city site. Greenville and Spartanburg are the only cities that have their forms online. I think that all cities should have websites like Greenville's. It lays out the facts and makes it easy to find forms, etc. That particular web pages was not that easy to find, however.

[breed]

While annexation may be a good thing in some cases, in most cases, annexing residential property is a fiscal loss for municipalities.  Residential properties use services... non-residential properties pay for them.

[sonofaque86]

Greenville does have the best one...I guess they have to try extra harder to convince people to annex into the city since they really can't use the water and sewer system as Columbia and Charleston and other cities are doing. But I like Greenville's

[Greenville]

Rather than devoting resources toward annexing small parcels of land, wouldn't Greenville do better to try to work with Greenville County to merge the two governments together (a la Jacksonville, FL and Louisville, KY)?  That way, Greenville city and Greenville county would be one.  A lot of duplication would be eliminated, the city would be 400,000+, and the task of trying to annex would be unnecessary.

I realize that the city and county are sometimes on different pages, but I would think that some effort by both sides to work together would go a long way.  Thoughts?

[krazeeboi]

Wasn't this attempted a few years back, to no avail?

I think that perhaps the city and county should look into merging some services first (police, fire, schoos, etc.), not unlike in Charlotte/Mecklenburg County. I'm not sure if a full merger would work right now in Greenville. Don't the city and county have two separate offices of economic development as the result of a misunderstanding or dispute?

[Spartan]

krazeeboi, on Aug 1 2006, 12:39 AM, said:

Wasn't this attempted a few years back, to no avail?

Yes.

Currently the only county looking at consolidation is Spartanburg.

[vicupstate]

I don't recall any effort to consolidate the City and County of Greenville in the ten years I have lived here.  I also don't remember hearing of such an effort prior to that. The Economic Development split was between the Chamber of Commerce and the County, not the City and the County.

Greenville County Council and City Council are polar opposites in terms of their philosophy of government.  While I would like to see it come about, I think it would be nearly impossible for a merger to occur.  Consolidating certain functions as Krazei suggests might work though.  Particularly if it saved the county money.  

I thought Cherokee County and Gaffney were going to vote on Consolidation in November,  what happened with that???

Frankly, the best chance for a metro county to consolidate, is if a smaller county did it first and it was successful, IMO.

[krazeeboi]

I thought the Gaffney/Cherokee merger proposal was scrapped?

[Greenville]

vicupstate, on Aug 1 2006, 03:53 PM, said:

I don't recall any effort to consolidate the City and County of Greenville in the ten years I have lived here.  I also don't remember hearing of such an effort prior to that. The Economic Development split was between the Chamber of Commerce and the County, not the City and the County.

Greenville County Council and City Council are polar opposites in terms of their philosophy of government.  While I would like to see it come about, I think it would be nearly impossible for a merger to occur.  Consolidating certain functions as Krazei suggests might work though.  Particularly if it saved the county money.  

I thought Cherokee County and Gaffney were going to vote on Consolidation in November,  what happened with that???

Frankly, the best chance for a metro county to consolidate, is if a smaller county did it first and it was successful, IMO.

I agree that Greenville city and Greenville county have been polar opposites in the past (the recent past, even), but a few election cycles can change things.  Didn't we recently replace some un-progressive county council members with some more forward-thinking ones?  If that happens several times, then the philosophy of the entire council will be drastically different.  I am obviously not holding my breath that the city and county will be on the same page anytime soon, but the difference between the two can certainly be minimized over the medium- and long-term.

[Spartan]

krazeeboi, on Aug 1 2006, 05:25 PM, said:

I thought the Gaffney/Cherokee merger proposal was scrapped?

Cerokee and Union's consolidation efforts fell apart. People dont want to give up their meaningless power of the board of the random rural fire station or whatever.

[vicupstate]

Spartan, on Aug 1 2006, 04:21 PM, said:

Cerokee and Union's consolidation efforts fell apart. People dont want to give up their meaningless power of the board of the random rural fire station or whatever.

Thanks for the update Spartan.  A shame though.

[erm1981]

I was reading something about augusta, georgia.  I believe it said augusta and richmond county consolidated together in 1996.  I think augusta is in richmond county but i might be wrong.

[krazeeboi]

Augusta is indeed in Richmond County. I don't know exactly when the city and county consolidated, but it wasn't that long ago.

[Spartan]

^It was 1996.