337 replies to this topic

[krazeeboi]

Here is another report (PDF file) by the same author of the original report in the first post in this thread entitled "Annexation and the Fiscal Fate of Cities." The summary states:

Quote

The flexibility to annex surrounding land and communities was more important to a city's bond rating (a sign of fiscal health) than the area's poverty rate or median household income. Annexing land, therefore, appears to be an important route to economic health and development for the nation's urban areas. State legislatures can play a vital role in ensuring the fiscal viability of their state by reviewing, and revising if necessary, state land development, zoning, and annexation laws. With careful planning, states can promote more compact development, preserve farmland and natural areas, and encourage reinvestment in older residential and commercial areas.

I found something quite interesting in all of this. The author defines cities as either "hyper elastic," "high elastic," "medium elastic," "low elastic," and "zero elastic" which is a measure of its capture/contribute percentage of its county’s population change. Hyper-elastic cities captured 64 percent of their county’s population growth; high-elastic cities, 48 percent; and medium-elastic cities, 29 percent. This is for the time period of 1950-2000. Under these conditions, Charleston actually ranks as a hyper elastic city, and Columbia as a high elastic city. We may complain about our annexation laws, but the situation here in SC is nowhere near as bad as in parts of the Northeast and Midwest.

Edited by krazeeboi, 11 August 2006 - 02:52 PM.

[erm1981]

I was just looking at the map for greenvilles city limits and i think it is crazy they cannot annex some of the land towards taylors or pendleton street.  Those areas are very close to the main downtown.  They have annexed a lot toward hubble and icar though.  I imagine that will boost the population quit a bit plus youll have the residential at the new publix beside the 29 bridge comming into downtown and also out on woodruff road at magnolia town square.  Not to mention all the new condos being built in various places.  I like to see the density starting to take hold here in greenville.  Hartford, connecticut is a similiar city as for as annexation goes.  Their city limits are very small like greenville's but their county population is i think about 800,000 give or take a few.

[vicupstate]

City and County have difficulty providing services with boundaries hard to define

Excellent article on Florence's difficulties providing services with "doughnut holes" and un-streamlined boundaries.  Also discusses the city of Florence's efforts to annex, including a thus-far unsuccessful effort to annex FMU.   It also details some of the areas that have been consolidated between the two governments.

[vicupstate]

Residents struggle to get in or stay out of City Limits

This article is a must-read for those that follow the annexation laws/battles here in SC.

In this particular article, residents dealt with major issues around septic failures and were hampered by the current laws.  Windsor Forest is an affluent neighborhood that would boost the tax rolls significantly if it were fully annexed.  The 75% threshold was nearly met too.  At least they will probably get most of it eventually.


This is the thord installment in a series.  I will see if I can post the second installment.

[erm1981]

I was reading some articles on how spartanburg really wants to expand out a lot more but you have a stupid 75% law or 100% law that means you have to have that much of the majority your annexing to agree with it.  I think NC's is only like 50% of the people plus 1.

Edited by erm1981, 02 September 2006 - 01:03 PM.

[krazeeboi]

Spartanburg is looking into a city-county consolidation. There's more about it in the Spartanburg subforum.

[vicupstate]

erm1981, on Sep 2 2006, 01:03 PM, said:

I was reading some articles on how spartanburg really wants to expand out a lot more but you have a stupid 75% law or 100% law that means you have to have that much of the majority your annexing to agree with it.  I think NC's is only like 50% of the people plus 1.

N.C. allows annexation without the consent of the affected property owners.  A vote of city council is all that is required, as long as certain density requirements are met.

In SC, there is the option to annex with 75% consent.  Annexation can be completed quicker if the consent is 100%.  There is a provision for annexation by election (Simpsonville is looking at Neely Farms for this) if 25% of those affected sign a petition.  The election requirement is a simple majority.  This is seldom used due to the added expense of the election.

[krazeeboi]

Here's an article in The State detailing Columbia's upcoming annexation efforts. A big advantage the city has is that some of the fastest-growing and soon-to-be fastest growing areas of the metro can potentially be captured by annexation, at least in part, as they are located in unincorporated Richland County.

[Spartan]

This is potentially good news. Columbia's desire to annex into the growing areas and not get bogged down in annexing developed areas is a wise move. The list of cities wanting to annex proactively now is growing. I think that the more large cities we get with this mentality the better, as it will be more likely to change the state law to allow change.

[803metlife]

I read that also. It seems as though the city is starting to wake up to reality and realize they must annex for the city to grow.It also said that The City of Columbia annex more than double that of last yr. So maybe all of s.c. cities will get on board and something can be done about the previous annexation law.

[monsoon]

erm1981, on Sep 2 2006, 03:03 PM, said:

..... NC's is only like 50% of the people plus 1.

No its not like that at all.  If an area meets certain requirements for density, NC Law allows a municipality to  annex that area regardless of how many people want it.  This is known as an involuntary annexation and the process used by most municipalities to grow their areas including all of the cities in Mecklenburg (Charlotte).  It only requires a simple vote by the city's city council.  

NC also has the concept of a EJT.  It's complicated how this works, but basically it gives a municipality zoning control over areas that it has yet to annex.  This tool lets the cities control growth before they are annexed into the city limits.  

Politicians in NC do this at their own peril.   While it's not much of a problem for Charlotte, Huntersville a number of years ago did an involuntary annexation of two large subdivisions into its city limits which more than doubled the size of the city.    The residents there were upset about this and in the coming fall election had enough votes to vote out the entire city council and mayor and replaced them with reps from their own subdivisions.   This actually turned out to be a good thing as in the following years Huntersville developed some of the most progressive zoning in the Carolinas.

Edit:  ahh I see vicupstate answered this.  sorry!

[distortedlogic]

803metlife, on Sep 3 2006, 10:28 AM, said:

I read that also. It seems as though the city is starting to wake up to reality and realize they must annex for the city to grow.It also said that The City of Columbia annex more than double that of last yr. So maybe all of s.c. cities will get on board and something can be done about the previous annexation law.

I wish Greenville would get on board. Cola's area now covers 130 square miles, Chas is close to 100, and Gville's is a whopping 26! I know these numbers have been posted many times, but look at them. 26 is PATHETIC! I know Gville leaders are trying to grow it in other ways, but that is just plain sad. Gville can do all the "high density infill" they want, and it will not make much difference. Like it or not, if Gville wants to remain in the game with SC other big three, it MUST annex, AGRESSIVELY.

[erm1981]

I think Greenville will end up not being able to annex like it wants due to state annexation laws and will faill to like 10th in the state as far as population.  Richland might also pass Greenville county in numbers as far as county numbers go by the next 2010 census.

[Spartan]

erm1981, on Sep 4 2006, 05:12 PM, said:

I think Greenville will end up not being able to annex like it wants due to state annexation laws and will faill to like 10th in the state as far as population.  Richland might also pass Greenville county in numbers as far as county numbers go by the next 2010 census.

Greenville ans Spartanburg in in similar situations. They are both suffering from small city limits and they cant expand because there are already PSD's in the urban areas around the cities. Greenville is doing a pretty good job of encouraging people to move back to the city. Spartanburg is just starting this effort. Population ranks dont mean much anyway. We all know that UA and metro stats are more accurate.

[distortedlogic]

erm1981, on Sep 4 2006, 03:12 PM, said:

I think Greenville will end up not being able to annex like it wants due to state annexation laws and will faill to like 10th in the state as far as population.  Richland might also pass Greenville county in numbers as far as county numbers go by the next 2010 census.

I agree with the first part of your comment. I have also stated before that in the future, Gville could easily fall out of the top 10 (sadly)unless things change. As for Richalnd passing Gville in county population. I would say this is very unlikely in our lifetimes, and pretty much impossible by 2010. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but Gville has about 70-80 thousand more people currently, and continues to add more people each year than does Richland. So while Richland may be growing at a slightly faster rate, Gville grows faster in raw numbers, and I do not see that changing any time soon.

[distortedlogic]

Found the link 2005 County Pop Estimates. Go down to the table, it shows pop figures for 2000, and 2005. The top 3:

Gville (2000) 379k  (2005) 407k   = + 28k

Richland (2000) 320k  (2005) 340k  =+ 20k

Chas (2000) 309k  (2005) 330k  =+ 21k

So, even though Richland and Chas counties may have a slightly higher growth rate, Gville continues to grow faster by sheer numbers. However, I would not be surprised to see Lexington cty surpass Spartanburg cty one day.

[Greenville]

I agree, it is too bad that Greenville is so far behind the other two big metros in square miles.  I also concur that Greenville isn't likely to annex a lot and grow the city limits by much.  The only hope for Greenville is to consolidate with the county.  That would jump the city area a ton, and bump up the city population to 400,000+.  That would be wonderful, but I do not see it happening anytime soon.  Our only hope is that city and county government decision makers realize that it is perhaps our only way out of this predicament.

The thing saving Greenville is the fact that the MSA is impressive.  In the last census GSP was just under 1 million, and currently it is over 1 million.  Although the midpoint estimates have split up Greenville and Spartanburg MSA's, I believe growth and commuting patterns will cause it to be adjusted back to being one Greenville-Spartanburg MSA by 2010.  As Greenville residents, that is what we will have to hang our hats on going forward.

[monsoon]

distortedlogic, on Sep 4 2006, 10:03 PM, said:

Found the link 2005 County Pop Estimates. Go down to the table, it shows pop figures for 2000, and 2005. The top 3:

Gville (2000) 379k  (2005) 407k   = + 28k

Richland (2000) 320k  (2005) 340k  =+ 20k

Chas (2000) 309k  (2005) 330k  =+ 21k

So, even though Richland and Chas counties may have a slightly higher growth rate, Gville continues to grow faster by sheer numbers. However, I would not be surprised to see Lexington cty surpass Spartanburg cty one day.

Actually you left out Horry County which added more than 30K.    I think that number is a big underestimate given the amount of growth in Myrtle Beach.

[carolinadude9409]

erm1981, on Sep 4 2006, 05:12 PM, said:

I think Greenville will end up not being able to annex like it wants due to state annexation laws and will faill to like 10th in the state as far as population.  Richland might also pass Greenville county in numbers as far as county numbers go by the next 2010 census.

I highly doubt Richland county will pass Greenville County in population anytime soon.

Edited by carolinadude9409, 05 September 2006 - 07:52 AM.

[vicupstate]

distortedlogic, on Sep 3 2006, 10:37 PM, said:

I wish Greenville would get on board. Cola's area now covers 130 square miles, Chas is close to 100, and Gville's is a whopping 26! I know these numbers have been posted many times, but look at them. 26 is PATHETIC! I know Gville leaders are trying to grow it in other ways, but that is just plain sad. Gville can do all the "high density infill" they want, and it will not make much difference. Like it or not, if Gville wants to remain in the game with SC other big three, it MUST annex, AGRESSIVELY.

I agree that Greenville's predicament is detrimential. The best option for Greenville is to try to pass the Local Option Sales Tax, to reduce the incremental cost of living in the city.  Short of that, I don't see much hope for the situation changing.  One thing that will help some, is that Verdae will eventually add 10,000 or so residents.  That might help Greenville stay in the top 10 awhile longer.  

Columbia's figures are inflated by Fort Jackson, which is 88 square miles.  That area has a relatively static population and produces no tax revenue.  Charleston is actually over 106 sq miles now.