131 replies to this topic

[Miesian Corners]

Since Charlotte-based Belk is in the process of buying Parisian's, what will they do with the Phipps Plaza location?  The only decent Belk stores are in Charlotte, Greensboro and Raleigh (they call them "A" stores).  Will the company do an "A" store at Phipps, or sell it off to some other retailer?

[StevenRocks]

I vote for "A" store.  I think they'll give it a shot.

[fmaieriii]

I do like Belks. I think that Belks is fine for outlying Atlanta areas such as Cumming and Griffin, but not at Phipps Plaza! People in Atlanta would not shop at Belks just because they have an upscale location at Southpark Mall in Charlotte or at the Mall of Georgia.The upscale customers of Atlanta and particularly Buckhead will never really shop there. I don't think that they really shop at Nordstroms at Phipps, much less at Belks. They don't currently shop at Parisian. Quite frankly, they don't shop at Phipps at all except for Saks, Tiffanys and a couple of other stores there such as Bob Ellis Shoes. They do go to Lenox and the independent stoes around Buckhead. Keep in mind that many affluent clients in Buckhead don't like to shop at malls.

Edited by fmaieriii, 30 July 2006 - 03:52 AM.

[mallguy]

Did they shop at Lord & Taylor?  I view that chain as a New York version of Parisian.

Then who keeps all of those nice stores at Phipps in business- tourists from South Carolina, the land of mid-market malls?

[Lady Celeste]

I would hope....no pray....no fast.....that Belk's not rebrand the Parisian at Phipps...or any other mall in metro Atlanta that has a Parisians as a Belk. Any chain that has to have A, B, and C stores are not worthy of Atlanta's premier shopping district. I don't care what anyone says....Belk's will always be viewed in my mind as a JCPenny. Sure there are nicer stores in smaller towns. As there would be since for years Belk's was the only player in the upscale market in those areas. Well Atlanta's shopping scene is a tad bit more mature than that. Surely this space can be filled with something a little more elegant than a slightly more upscale (A Store) Belks. Hello Barneys.....can you hear my plea?  

Could you imagine someone's garage with a Bentley, a Rolls and a Ferrari and someone has the nerve to say "hey, it's okay for you to add a Camry....it's has all the options." Oh the shades of Phipps to be thus polluted. The last thing Atlanta's shopping market need is another "midmarket" chain that happens to have three or four A stores. Come to think of it, I have never ever heard of Saks, Neiman Marcus, Bloomingdales or Nordstrom haivng A, B or C stores. I have never seen a Neiman Marcus at some strip mall in some exurban part of Atlanta. I hope Simon is a little more creative and will talk Belk out of locating at Phipps.

Can you imagine how embarassing it will be for out of towners to say "What is Belk?" My answer will be "just another JCPenny." The Mall of Georgia was one thing. It's pretty much out the way and not over run with tourist. Phipps is a whole different creature. When people are in Atlanta they see this mall. It's across from one of our Ritz Carltons for heavens sake. I think there should be a campaign started. "Belks at Phipps....no thanks." All registered voters and or landowners of Fulton, Cobb, Fayette, DeKalb and Douglas should petition Simon to search for something greater than what ever mall in the south will have.

Clearly I am having fun with this but alot of my post in from the heart.

Belks at Phipps.........No Thanks!

[Santiago6678]

I totally agree, Lady Celeste.  I'd sign your petition to keep Belk out of Phipps.

[StevenRocks]

[Bear in mind when reading the following that I ain't mad at y'all (especially you, Lady Celeste, because I knew how you felt about Belk before we started this discourse), I'm just curious]

If Phipps (and Greater Buckhead) is supposed to preserved as some sort of dramatically upscale temple not fit for the plebeian presence of Belk, then who the hell was shopping at the supposedly superior Lord & Taylor and Parisian?  

Obviously not enough people because one is gone and the other is good as gone.

Why then would it be such a travesty that the only decent Southern department store nameplate left (other than Dillard’s) without a store in Buckhead moves in?

[Lady Celeste]

StevenRocks, on Jul 30 2006, 08:50 PM, said:

[Bear in mind when reading the following that I ain't mad at y'all (especially you, Lady Celeste, because I knew how you felt about Belk before we started this discourse), I'm just curious]

If Phipps (and Greater Buckhead) is supposed to preserved as some sort of dramatically upscale temple not fit for the plebeian presence of Belk, then who the hell was shopping at the supposedly superior Lord & Taylor and Parisian?  

Obviously not enough people because one is gone and the other is good as gone.

Why then would it be such a travesty that the only decent Southern department store nameplate left (other than Dillard’s) without a store in Buckhead moves in?

Steven those are fair enough questions.

I can tell you...from my first hand knowledge....why the Lord & Taylor at Phipps or Northpoint did not survive. They were too middle road. Phipps and Lenox are the "it" place for status conscience Atlantans. What I saw personally with Lord & Taylor...especially at NorthPoint Mall...was a lowering of image to compete with what they thought would be the new middle market. It appeared to me that around the mid 90's, Neiman and Saks went further upscale and Lord & Taylor went more middle market. In Atlanta, at the time, there was Rich's and Macy's...Parisians and Dillards were entering the market as well. Instead of Lord & Taylor elevating itself above these midmarket brands, they joined them. This really didn't bode well when Nordstrom entered the Atlanta market in 1998.

I knew the day that I walked into Lord & Taylor NorthPoint Mall (Alpharetta) and saw Anne Klein shoes on sale for $50.00, it was only a matter of time. I saw with my own eyes Lord & Taylor get caught in the marketing divide. This is why I don't think that Belk is good at Phipps. Atlantans are basically following the national trend. Either they are shopping at Walmart or Nordstrom....very few are doing the in between. This is why JCPenny and Sears got caught off guard. In Atlanta, they want either upscale or Walmart. When people go to Phipps they are not going to get socks, 12 pair for $5. Lord & Taylor's issue was not Buckhead's issue....it was marketing. If Buckhead was not a good bet then Bloomingdales would not have entered the market knowing full well that Buckhead could not even float a Lord & Taylor.

Metro Atlanta has like 20 malls...and that may not be counting the lifestyle centers that are as sizable as most malls. If you want Belk type shopping then you have options to go to other...ummm...suburban malls. I just can't see the trendy set taking a liking to Belk at Phipps Plaza. The branding is not there. Atlanta is not made up of mostly southerners anymore so the nostalgia for a southern chain is just not there. I told my mother about Belk's buyout of Parisians. She asked me what will happen to the Parisian stores in Atlanta and I explained to her that they will be rebranded at Belk. "Why would they put that store, with so large a space, at Phipps?" she asked. She got Belk confused with Lane Bryant.

Okay, so Belk wants to enter the Atlanta market....fine. It has an uphill battle to fight in an already congested retail environment. Belk does not fit the Phipps set. I can deal with Belk at say a Northlake Mall (DeKalb Co) but at the premier mall. To me, it is too risky of a venture. When Atlanta love you, they love you....when they don't....well, you get no loving. It's a hard market. Thank heavens there is no Parisians at Perimeter Mall.

Parisians entered to market a relative unknown. It had a two things going for it. It's name. Parisians sounds more upscale than Belk. That's one, but the most important issue is the fact that Belk has already been in the metro Atlanta market for years. In suburban and exurban areas. Before the Mall of Georgia Belk, I think the only other high profile location was at the Fayetteville Pavillion (lifestyle center). I can see it there because although Fayette is a very affluent county, I don't think they are the fashionistas that you will find frequenting Phipps or Lenox. I mean I just can't see a person intent on going to Jil Sander wanting to stop in at Belk for her hoisery. I fill Belk should just stay at secondary malls and lifestyle centers.

I would rather see Dillards there than Belk. Belk has no recognition but only to those of the south. In Atlanta, it really doesn't even have that much recognition. I can't get over the fact that I actually had to explain the store to my mother. The Atlanta market is tough and the last thing we need is another mid market chain. I don't care if they have A, B, or C stores, I don't think it should go in Phipps Plaza. It's like taking a step back. Atlanta is a burgeoning international city...the last thing we need to fill our premier shopping space is some second rate store. Think big Simon......BIG!!!!!!

Hummmmm, perhaps I feel a meeting with Mayor Franklin and Sam Massell is in order. Surely when she went to Las Vegas for the retail convention last month...or was that June...that she was scouting for retail for the Buckhead area as well as Midtown. I just hope that Belk does not come to Phipps Plaza. If it does then I will live...I will just do it like the one at the Mall of Georgia.....never go.

[mallguy]

Parisian's name recognition is definitely one good reason to keep the chain alive as a Belk subsidiary.

Re: which department store chains are "mid-market" and which are "upscale"- from growing up with Belk stores and then spending tons of time at Parisian and Lord & Taylor as well, in my view the most upscale Belk, at SouthPark in Charlotte, sells products that can be very high-end, such as Burberry and Zegna suits, in line with or perhaps even better than the best Parisian or Lord & Taylor.  But Parisian and Lord & Taylor sell nothing but at least decent clothes (e.g., Tommy Hilfiger), plus plenty of very good brands (e.g., Joseph Abboud and Tailor Byrd, and I've seen Ferragamo shoes at the L&T on Fifth Avenue).  They don't sell junk.  Conversely, Belk sells low-end clothes among mid-market and high-end brands, even at its SouthPark store; there is a Levi's display there near the west-side mall entrance, despite Ferragamo shoes being not far away.  Belk's broad range of merchandising in my view is an obstacle to the chain being truly upscale.  So if I'm in a mall with a Belk and a Parisian, I'll go straight to Parisian, since I know I won't have to waste my scarce mall time looking through any $9.99 track suits to find good clothes.

Nordstrom does have A stores and B stores; I'd say that the one in Durham is a B store, with less high-end merchandise than the Charlotte one or the Seattle flagship.  But all Nordstroms I've seen have at least Burberry shirts and the like- enough to keep all of the stores upscale enough.  No Belk- style $9.99 track suits a few feet away from the Burberry section.

Edited by mallguy, 31 July 2006 - 07:02 AM.

[micropundit]

A little real estate 101: there is a rental agreement between Simon and their repective tenants.the greement can be modified per either party but the power rets,primarily with the landlord,Simon. When Parisians leaves and they are, simon will replace them with a tenant that will reflect the market strategy ofthe Mall even if it means buying out the balance of the Saks/Parsian lease.

[Lady Celeste]

micropundit, on Jul 31 2006, 07:03 AM, said:

A little real estate 101: there is a rental agreement between Simon and their repective tenants. the agreement can be modified per either party but the power rets,primarily with the landlord,Simon. When Parisians leaves and they are, simon will replace them with a tenant that will reflect the market strategy ofthe Mall even if it means buying out the balance of the Saks/Parsian lease.

Okay......I almost want to cry. I really really really hope what you say is true because then Simon is not going to muddy the water they have worked so hard to filter.

[verge]

Lady Celeste, on Jul 31 2006, 09:06 AM, said:

Okay......I almost want to cry. I really really really hope what you say is true because then Simon is not going to muddy the water they have worked so hard to filter.

I would be extrememly shocked to see anything other than a very up-scale store (or stores) there...
The other tenants would certainly be up in arms if Simon approved any concept which would change the overall perception of the mall---- and why on earth would they?... they certainly enjoy the high rents that they get at Phipps and would do nothing to damage that franchise...

[Martinman]

Lady Celeste Belk is already in the Atlanta market.  They have stores in metro suburban and exurban area strip malls.  

It's understandable that Belk has nicer stores in their home city and that fine.  But when they primarily occupy space alongside Kroger's and Winn Dixie's in this market, I just don't think it'll fly at Phipps.

Edited by Martinman, 31 July 2006 - 08:17 AM.

[micropundit]

verge, on Jul 31 2006, 08:03 AM, said:

I would be extrememly shocked to see anything other than a very up-scale store (or stores) there...
The other tenants would certainly be up in arms if Simon approved any concept which would change the overall perception of the mall---- and why on earth would they?... they certainly enjoy the high rents that they get at Phipps and would do nothing to damage that franchise...

Exactly. try this on for size: Barney's and a multi level Ralph Lauren with a Rugby-RL's latest concept- in the space currently occupied by Parisians. Or a Zara-think H&M with a latin twist. At any rate ,Simon must compete with not only the image of Phipps but the retail offerings slated for Terminus as well as the Midtown retail resurgence.It is a race to see who gets there the firstest  with the mostest.

[Buckley]

Martinman, on Jul 31 2006, 09:13 AM, said:

Lady Celeste Belk is already in the Atlanta market.  They have stores in metro suburban and exurban area strip malls.  

It's understandable that Belk has nicer stores in their home city and that fine.  But when they primarily occupy space alongside Kroger's and Winn Dixie's in this market, I just don't think it'll fly at Phipps.

I've never seen a strip mall Belk's in metro atl. where are they?

[Lady Celeste]

Buckley, on Jul 31 2006, 09:53 AM, said:

I've never seen a strip mall Belk's in metro atl. where are they?

Martinman didn't read my post carefully. I had already stated that there were Belks in the Atlanta metro market. They have some suburban and mostly exurban stores.

There's one in Canton, Cumming, Carrollton, Cartersville, Conyers, Gainesville, Marietta way out on Dallas Hwy, McDonough, Newnan, Norcross (I must have missed this, I have never seen this Belk), Snellville and as I mentioned earlier, Fayetteville Pavillion. Every last one is in a strip mall or lifestyle center. Not exactly what I would think befitting Phipps. The only mall one we have now is at the Mall of Georgia. There is one anchoring the mall in Athens.  

Oddly enough, have any of you metro Atlantans ever seen a Belk advertisement?

[Martinman]

From the Belk website.

CANTON  
      
    BELK
1447 RIVERSTONE PARKWAY
CANTON
GA 30114
Store Location Number: 0033
Store Phone Number: (770)720-1125
Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:30 - 6:00 (EST)  
      
CARROLLTON  
      
    BELK
1109 SOUTH PARK- SUITE #300
CARROLLTON
GA 30117
Store Location Number: 0044
Store Phone Number: (770)832-1421
Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 6:00 (EST)  
      
CARTERSVILLE  
      
    BELK
600 CHEROKEE PLACE
CARTERSVILLE
GA 30120
Store Location Number: 0039
Store Phone Number: (770)382-3770
Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 6:00 (EST)  
      
      
CONYERS  
      
    BELK
1454 DOGWOOD DRIVE
CONYERS
GA 30013
Store Location Number: 0331
Store Phone Number: (678)413-3511
Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 12:00 - 6:00  
    
    
      
CUMMING  
      
    BELK
520 LAKELAND PLAZA
CUMMING
GA 30040
Store Location Number: 0337
Store Phone Number: (770)889-5998
Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 5:30 (EST)  
      
      
FAYETTEVILLE  
      
    BELK
200 PAVILION PARKWAY
FAYETTEVILLE
GA 30214
Store Location Number: 0196
Store Phone Number: (770)460-8550
Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 6:00 (EST)  
      
GAINESVILLE  
      
    BELK
150 PEARL NIX PARKWAY
GAINESVILLE
GA 30501
Store Location Number: 0087
Store Phone Number: (770)532-7021
Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 6:00 (EST)  
      
GRIFFIN  
      
    BELK
1645 NORTH EXPRESSWAY
GRIFFIN
GA 30223
Store Location Number: 0495
Store Phone Number: (770)228-6660
Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 6:00 (EST)  
    
      
LAWRENCEVILLE  
      
    CLOSED
*************
LAWRENCEVILLE
GA 30043
Store Location Number: 0576
Store Phone Number: (770)963-0201
Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 6:00 (EST)  
        
      
MARIETTA  
      
    BELK
3636 DALLAS HWY SW, SUITE 100
MARIETTA
GA 30064
Store Location Number: 0334
Store Phone Number: (770)590-9665
Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 5:30 (EST)  
      
MCDONOUGH  
      
    BELK
1800 JONESBORO ROAD
MCDONOUGH
GA 30253
Store Location Number: 0262
Store Phone Number: (678)583-1996
Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 11:00 - 6:00  
      
  
      
NEWNAN  
      
    BELK
997 BULLSBORO DRIVE
NEWNAN
GA 30263
Store Location Number: 0210
Store Phone Number: (770)253-6770
Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 12:30 - 5:30 (EST)  
      
NORCROSS  
      
    BELK
5165 PEACHTREE PKWY
NORCROSS
GA 30092
Store Location Number: 0270
Store Phone Number: (678)291-9980
Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 8:00 SUN 1:00 - 6:00  
        
      
      
SNELLVILLE  
      
    BELK
2059 SCENIC HWY, SUITE 110
SNELLVILLE
GA 30078
Store Location Number: 0184
Store Phone Number: (678)344-8484
Store Hours: M-S 10:00 - 9:00 SUN 1:00 - 6:00 (EST)

Edited by Martinman, 31 July 2006 - 10:11 AM.

[Andrea]

Lady Celeste, on Jul 31 2006, 12:00 PM, said:

Oddly enough, have any of you metro Atlantans ever seen a Belk advertisement?

Celeste, I have not.  

There used to be a cool Belk's in downtown Decatur, and one in the old Buckhead Village (way back when).   There was also a nice Belk's at Suburban Plaza off of Scott Boulevard.  I honestly always thought of them as fairly upscale, at least as compared to Sears.

[Miesian Corners]

God forbid tha Phipps gets "downscaled", but Lady Celeste, you have to be crazy to prefer Dillard's to Belk.  Dillard's is horrific (both in merchandising and customer service).  

As to Simon and real estate, most anchors own and build their stores.  Simon would have to buy the Phipps Parisian from Belk.  And lets see, they certainly didn't buy the former Galyan's from Dicks at SouthPark.

[Lady Celeste]

Miesian Corners, on Jul 31 2006, 05:55 PM, said:

God forbid tha Phipps gets "downscaled", but Lady Celeste, you have to be crazy to prefer Dillard's to Belk.  Dillard's is horrific (both in merchandising and customer service).  

As to Simon and real estate, most anchors own and build their stores.  Simon would have to buy the Phipps Parisian from Belk.  And lets see, they certainly didn't buy the former Galyan's from Dicks at SouthPark.

Yes, may He forbid that happening.

To be honest, I can't tell you if I have ever been in a Dillards or not. If I did, I don't remember the experience. Either way, if I have to choose....and thank heavens I don't......between the two, I would say Dillards because of it's recognition. I am only speaking of the Atlanta market. Dillards has more recognition than Belk. Also at hand is the fact that I have not seen Dillards in far flung exurbs. Again, I'm not saying that Belk is a bad store. For those who shop there, happy shopping. Just like Walmart...and I don't shop there but most of America does...Belk serves a purpose. I just don't feel it should be at Phipps.

From what I'm understanding from Simon is that they wholly own Phipps Plaza and leases the space to anchors. If this is the case then Micropundit is correct and Simon could give a thumbs up or down to Belk Phipps Plaza.