38 replies to this topic

[pyalberice]

orulz, on Jul 1 2007, 09:21 AM, said:

pyalberice,

Digging up this thread again...

As you indicate, this project is stalled, but could you indulge us here on UrbanPlanet with some preliminary images (site plans, renderings, etc) from this project, so we might have some idea of what might be used as a "starting point" for developments here in the future?

Thanks.

The Ravenscroft project is on the drawing board now with a major revision from the previous schemes.  The project has been reduced in size to 150 to 180 residential units and 10 to  15 retail office units in 4 to 5 mid-rise buildings.  The maximum height of each building will be 7 stories, and will not be classified as high-rise buildings per the building code.  The concept is to create a mix of buildings that are urban, and create an urban sense of place.  The design of the exterior will be urban infill contemporary.  Sorry, no goofy neo _____.  This is the 21st century.  The wooded area will not be developed.  We expect to begin the approval process this Fall.

[rooster8]

I can't speak for the rest of the folks here, but I think the urbanity of the project is more important than how tall it is.  As has been seen recently, just because something is tall doesn't mean that it fits in well with its surroundings.

As far as the design goes, it doesn't need to look like it was built in 1930 to be nice.  As long as the buildings are constructed of quality materials that will last for decades to come, then it should be nice.

[hauntedheadnc]

pyalberice, on Jul 29 2007, 04:30 PM, said:

The Ravenscroft project is on the drawing board now with a major revision from the previous schemes.  The project has been reduced in size to 150 to 180 residential units and 10 to  15 retail office units in 4 to 5 mid-rise buildings.  The maximum height of each building will be 7 stories, and will not be classified as high-rise buildings per the building code.  The concept is to create a mix of buildings that are urban, and create an urban sense of place.  The design of the exterior will be urban infill contemporary.  Sorry, no goofy neo _____.  This is the 21st century.  The wooded area will not be developed.  We expect to begin the approval process this Fall.

I was with you until you took that unnecessary jab at architectural styles other than "conteporary," which you must admit as often as not translates as "boring."  I sincerely hope that even if it is to be contemporary, you're planning something interesting and visually appealing.  We don't need any more buildings dull enough to make passing motorists nod off at the wheel.

Edited by hauntedheadnc, 30 July 2007 - 06:10 PM.

[orulz]

I missed this before, but there was an article in the C-T about this project last week. Seems the developers have changed directions and are now pursuing a mid-rise project in the 7-story range, and preserving more of the trees as-is. It went before the downtown commission last Wednesday.

I wonder if pyalberice could comment a little more in depth about this new proposal and how the DTC meeting went?

[pyalberice]

orulz, on Dec 18 2007, 01:05 PM, said:

I missed this before, but there was an article in the C-T about this project last week. Seems the developers have changed directions and are now pursuing a mid-rise project in the 7-story range, and preserving more of the trees as-is. It went before the downtown commission last Wednesday.

I wonder if pyalberice could comment a little more in depth about this new proposal and how the DTC meeting went?

The Ravenscroft Project will be mixed use with residential, live / work, and retail spaces in five mid rise buildings (top floor line 74 feet above street level for fire department access) on two levels of underground parking.  The adjoining site with the trees will be preserved and will be a private outdoor space for the residents of the development.  The buildings will be sited similarly to a traditional street pattern and there will be connections to Banks Avenue, Ravenscroft, Hilliard and Church Street.  To the extent of the property available, we are trying to "knit" the development to the existing Asheville street pattern.

We have made presentations to the Downtown Commission Design review subcommittee and the full commission.  The project has been well received and we are in the process of developing the design in further detail with full commission review scheduled for the 2nd Friday in February.

I hope everyone in the forum has a happy and safe holiday season.

[hauntedheadnc]

Are these street connections going to be continuations of the streets, or are they going to be internal roads for the development?  Also, what do you mean that they will be "similarly" sited to a traditional street plan -- will they be flush to the sidewalk?

[pyalberice]

hauntedheadnc, on Dec 24 2007, 12:08 PM, said:

Are these street connections going to be continuations of the streets, or are they going to be internal roads for the development? Also, what do you mean that they will be "similarly" sited to a traditional street plan -- will they be flush to the sidewalk?

There will be both a continuation of existing streets and internal streets within the project.  Collier will be widened with on street parking on both sides.  The buildings facing Collier and Banks will feature pedestrian friendly retail / restaurant / cafe type spaces.  There will be an new internal street perpendicular to Collier with ground floor retail, sidewalks, benchs, street trees and and street lamps that would be typical of a traditional urban streetscape.  This street will be accessible to the public, although it is not a city street.  The buildings will be flush to the sidewalk.  The sidewalks will be at least 10 feet wide and wider where outdoor dining is located.

[hauntedheadnc]

That all sounds about as good as one could hope.  Thanks for clarification.  It's a pity the height was cut down so, but it still sounds like an excellent project.  We're all looking forward to it getting underway.

[orulz]

There are now renderings and a master plan available on the Development Mapper.

The elevations (of building 'b') show a building of a very similar in design to 12 South Lexington.

It took a while for me to figure out exactly what's going on with the site plan, but I think I get it now. There are five buildings. The entire development will be built on what seems to be one large parking deck, which will have just once entrance, accessible from Collier Avenue. There will be two new internal streets, between Ravenscroft and Collier. There will be a triangular plaza located where Collier and Ravenscroft come to a point, with the third side being defined by one of the internal streets. The grove of trees on the hill behind 120 Coxe will be kept as a "natural amenity area." Two new buildings (6 and 7 stories each) will face Banks Avenue, which will be given a streetscape treatment similar to Collier with Zona Village.

There will be lots of stairs and pedestrian paths to connect places where there are no streets.

Here is the site plan, with some colors added to illustrate.
Green is green space & the triangular plaza. Red are the new streets. Blue is the existing Ravenscroft. Gray is the parking deck entrance. Purple are the pedestrian connections.

[hauntedheadnc]

Well, I like the plazas, although considering the architecture I doubt the plazas will be anymore inspiring or inviting.  It looks to be another Charlotte or Raleigh-style "contemporary boring" set up.  12 S. Lexington writ large.  I was really hoping for something that looked at least somewhat different from that building.  Every damn thing Alberice has built downtown looks exactly alike, and Asheville really deserves better.

You'd think I would have learned by now not to get my hopes up.  On paper the Ranvenscroft Project is a good idea, but without decent architecture it's just another leech, sucking up the appeal of everything else downtown without contributing to it in the slightest, just like 12 S. Lexington, 21 Battery Park, the Griffin Apartments, the Ellington, and every other boring, ugly, or boring and ugly project built or planned for downtown.  Just what the hell is it going to take for developers to stop building this novocaine architecture?

[orulz]

I do hope that the architectural styles of the buildings vary. If they only change the colors/materials but leave the design the same for every building, then that will be rather monotonous and not really ideal. I'd like to see a different architect design each building, but following the master plan above as far as the overall design of the building is concerned. Though that would probably make the project more expensive.

[otis-t]

I see what you're saying about the relative safety or blandness of these designs -- but what contemporary architecture -- in or out of North Carolina -- of a similar use and scale to these Asheville projects --  have you seen that floats your boat? Is there anything going up in Raleigh or Charlotte that's a better or more innovative design?

[hauntedheadnc]

otis-t, on Mar 11 2008, 09:13 AM, said:

I see what you're saying about the relative safety or blandness of these designs -- but what contemporary architecture -- in or out of North Carolina -- of a similar use and scale to these Asheville projects --  have you seen that floats your boat? Is there anything going up in Raleigh or Charlotte that's a better or more innovative design?

Nothing in Charlotte or Raleigh floats my boat, and if it did, I'd be there instead of here.  Half the reason half of Charlotte and Raleigh head up here on the weekends is because we aren't them despite developers best efforts to change that.  The reason I rail on this kind of architecture so much is because it's exactly the same sort of boring crap going up all over Charlotte and Raleigh, easily two of the most architecturally somnolent cities in the nation.  Asheville has a legacy and a history of good architecture and we deserve better.  All the new residential or mixed-use buildings and projects going up down in Charlotte and Raleigh tend to look alike, down to the "flare" of a cylindrical tower feature at the street corner.  

I'm not at all against development downtown or near downtown, but I demand something better than "contemporary boring."  Buildings like this are the reason that most local residents around here want buildings that look old, as developers prove more and more every day that they are too bloody incompetent to deliver a decent modern or postmodern product.  However, we're finding out that the beotchs are too stupid to even copy historical styles correctly, as with the Ellington.  They all want to cash in on what the architects and developers of the past were able to do, yet nobody wants to contribute to the present or enhance the future.  Do you honestly think anyone is going to point proudly to 12 S. Lexington, or to these clones of it in the Ravenscroft Project in the future?  Hell no.  These buildings don't contribute to anything.  They just take up space.  That's what most new development in Asheville does.  It just takes up space, without adding a thing to the community as a whole.

[orulz]

Just noticed that the architect's website has a bunch of 3d renderings. Every building really does look like a carbon copy of 12 South Lexington. Very urban. The site plan has a bit of a commie block vibe, but the large amount of retail kind of diminishes that. However, I'd definitely like to see some greater variety in architecture and materials.

[hauntedheadnc]

Colorful commie blocks.  You're exactly right, orulz.

[rooster8]

Too bad at least the material colors aren't changed up a bit.  It looks like a solid project, if it can be built in this environment.

[thecowgoesmoo]

Any updates on this one? Doesn't look like anything is happening there. The only action I've seen is that the vacant house on Banks/Collier seems to have turned into a homeless den. A few months ago I was out drinking and someone from Alexander Reagan said that they were working on that project now as a tie in to Zona.

[orulz]

Browsing through Bidclerk again, I saw this, which was posted on 7/31.

Quote

Site work and new construction of a residential complex in Asheville. Design plans call for four buildings ranging from 12 to 20 stories to house 450 one-, two- and three-bedroom condominiums.

Has to be Ravenscroft. The most recent plan called for 5 buildings and had shrunk down to 7 stories (according to the renderings), but the original concept for this project matches that description exactly. The return of taller buildings can probably be attributed to the downtown master plan, which would allow highrise buildings as-of-right on the south slope.

The projected start date on Bidclerk is January 2010 but that has about a snowball's chance in hell of happening.

I think this would be a fine location for residential development, but I'm not sure if it would support nearly the amount of retail that's planned, considering that it's completely off the beaten track. Live-work might work, and it does look like they plan on turning Collier into more of a major street, but the only corner with any exposure whatsoever to the rest of downtown is Building A at the corner of Banks and Collier. It's close to Coxe, which is a secondary street with a lot of potential. But Banks itself can, at best, be classified as a tertiary street.

[Alias]

Any updates on this?