494 replies to this topic

[urbanvb]

monsoon, on May 14 2005, 11:51 AM, said:

Raleigh has the 800 lb gorilla called RTP working against its downtown revival.  While RTP has done great things to bring a great deal of prosperity to the Triangle, it has done so at the expense if its downtowns.   I would think it would be very difficult to get people to buy an urban place in the downtown area (along with the disadvantages that comes with that) to not have the counter of an easy trip to work for having done so. 

If for example, IBM's 14,000 employees were working downtown in a similar manner to BofA's employees in DT Charlotte, I think you would see a completely different situation there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seems like I read somewhere a few mos ago about RTP trying to reinvent itself with housing being built there and having transit to link the area, etc.

[urbanvb]

I was 'catching' up on my reading in this thread and could have missed it but could someone list all the new and upcoming construction DT? I recall there is a initiative(via the city website) to make DT more inviting called Livable Streets. Is this favorably moving forward?

Edited by guynvb, 28 May 2005 - 02:37 PM.

[ralex231]

Downtown Raleigh has surprised many of us during the last few years with several projects that promise to make downtown a livable and desirable place. Successful revitalization efforts have converted several areas of downtown into destinations, placing them at the top of our "areas to watch" list. There was a short period of time when announcements came out as if the sky was the limit (in terms of numbers, not height).

By far, the largest project was Two Progress Plaza's 19-story tower, which is currently hosting many of the company's employees; I am not sure whether the HQ were actually relocated into that building. The importance of this project can be easily demonstrated by the announcements of many more plans, some of which are nearing completion. The list of projects keeps growing, mainly thanks to residential infills that replace surface lots and underutilized space. So, allow me to provide a list of what's coming up:

UNDER CONSTRUCTION:

    * Quorum Center - 15 stories (mixed-use).
    * Paramount - 10 stories (residential).
    * Dawson - 5 stories; almost complete (residential w/ street-level retail/restaurant).
    * Hudson - 5 stories (residential w/ street-level retail/restaurant/TV station).
    * Convention Center - 500,000 sf of space; something equivalent to 5-6 stories in height (convention).
    * Reopening of Fayetteville Street.

APPROVED & PROPOSED:

    * Convention Hotel - 16 stories (hospitality).
    * 222 Glenwood - 8-12 stories (residential w/ street-level retail/restaurants).
    * Palladium Plaza - 5 stories (residential).
    * Metropolitan - 8 stories (residential).
    * West & North streets (North) - Sandreuter's proposal for something at least as large as Dawson (residential w/ street-level retail/restaurants).
    * Bloomsbury Estates - 5 stories (residential).
    * Jones & St Mary's - Two 4-story buildings, totaling 40-50 units (residential).
    * Hillsborough & St Mary's - Currently, a Capitol Broadcasting property. 150-200 units; possibly something around 5-6 stories (residential).
    * Hillsborough & Boylan - another mid-rise; I do not foresee anything above 5 stories (residential).
    * Peace & Boylan - 4 stories (residential w/ retail).
    * West & North streets (South) - Empire Properties' proposal for an urban complex; something up to 4 stories (mixed-use).
    * South Wilmington & Fayetteville - A new proposal, by Empire Properties, for a 5-6 story residential building and renovation of an existing art deco low-rise. Not exactly downtown, but the area will be incorporated into the core once development flourishes in the South End (mixed-use).
    * Person Street Plaza - 3 stories (residential w/ street-level retail/restaurants).
    * Carlton Plaza - 3 stories (residential w/ street-level retail/restaurants).
    * Intermodal Station.
    * Riverwalk.

ENVISIONED:

    * Reynolds Tower - 32-37 stories (mixed-use).
    * The "mystery" tower - 21 stories; not officially announced, but nearby store owners already know about it (residential w/ street-level retail and top-floor restaurant).
    * East convention center wing - ~15 stories (mixed-use).
    * N&O Offices - 10-16 stories of office space for News & Observer (offices).
    * RBC/Centura - 12-15 stories; so far wishful thinking (offices).
    * Courthouse extension - 9 stories, but equivalent to 15 regular floors. It could go higher (offices)
    * Boutique hotel - 8+ story hotel w/ condos on the top, at the surface lot between Lenoir/Salisbury/South streets.
    * Hilton Hotel - At the current location of Raleigh Office Supply. I assume something like 5+ stories (hospitality).
    * Green Square - 6 stories (offices).
    * Clarence Lightner Public Safety Center - City of Raleigh's new headquarters facility for Police and Fire Departments; probably 6+ stories (offices).

SMALL AREA PLANS - These plans guarantee a mixed-use environment with several mid-rises, low-rises, townhomes and single houses:

    * Moore Square/City Market.
    * North Blount Street.
    * South End.
    * Warehouse District/ TTA planned station area.


All of the above projects justify the increasing excitement that Raleighites feel about their downtown. Even after the completion of these projects, however, DT Raleigh has a VERY long way to go before we can place it in pars with more established downtowns (e.g. Portland, Richmond, Austin). Our city does not play in the major league, where cities like NY, Atlanta and Seattle play; currently, we are a mid-size city, without a great vision and unable to see beyond 5-10 years. Raleigh is still searching for identity, beyond its status as the capital city of North Carolina, which makes things difficult.

Anyway, the purpose of this thread is not to make Raleigh look little and vision-less, but everyone needs to keep in mind that we don't shoot for the sky, something reflected on the numerous mid-rise projects listed above. Our skyline will get a boost when Quorum Center gets completed, along with the South End developments and the Reynolds Tower. If the latter gets delivered as DT Raleigh's new tallest tower, we may not see similar developments for a while, but we'll definitely see an increase in density, especially around the South End.

After looking at the above list (which is not necesarily complete), what are your thoughts about the future of DT Raleigh? Even though we have talked about this in the past, the list I posted should make it easier to confirm or modify what has been said before. If everything goes well, the following numbers should be good for the next 5 years:

    * High-rises (15+ stories): 5 (RBC/Centura and N&O not included in this category).
    * Mid-rises (6-14 stories): 9 (including the courthouse, although it will be more like a high-rise).
    * Low-rise (5 stories and below): 16 (including Hilton).

The above numbers do not include numerous mid-rises and low-rises that will emerge as the result of Small Area Plans becoming reality. I can easily see another 10-15 midrises being built, but to speculate on the height would be foolish. Let your imagination go wild and picture DT Raleigh for the next 5-10 years.
__________________

i take no credit for that it was made by a user by the name of Raleigh-Nc from ssc

[urbanvb]

^ That is an impressive list nonetheless. It does sound like Raleigh is booming DT (or will be soon). That is a huge amount of projects. I would think as these are built others would come into the picture as well. I really hope they can get some high end retail in there though. That can be a big draw for a DT. Success breeds success.

[Tayfromcarolina]

Here are a few pics of the new 230 million dollar Convention Center. Now under construction in downtown. Raleigh Convention Center

I think that this along with the fayetteville street mall project. Are the first in a series of great steps for the city.  What's next?  And what do you wish for?

I wish that the state and city could go in on a NC State Aquarium.  Georgia is about to open a huge one in Atlanta. I think that this could be a Raleigh/Triangle/and State wide Attraction. We already have the Art, History, and Natural Science Museums so and Aquarium would seen to be next on the list right? Why should the aquariums only be at the coast?  

[Damien]

An aquarium would be cool. I think the city needs to promote the Triangle Metro Zoo more. Not a lot of people know about it, or course that could be due to its location . For any of you who might be interested, it is off US 1/Capital Blvd. just norht of Wake Forest.

[sergpack]

Damien, on Jun 23 2005, 05:27 PM, said:

An aquarium would be cool. I think the city needs to promote the Triangle Metro Zoo more. Not a lot of people know about it, or course that could be due to its location . For any of you who might be interested, it is off US 1/Capital Blvd. just norht of Wake Forest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where off capital blv? I like to know.

[Justin6882]

I definitely agree on the aquarium.  I think it might be a nice addition to Exploris...but I'm not sure there is room for one there.  I'd also like to see a downtown Library come to the forefront again.

[Damien]

If you go out Capital Blvd. and pass through Wake Forest, you'll see little red triangular signs that say "zoo" in yellow lettering. Its about a mile past the new target shopping center. I think the name of the road its on is Pine View.

[Justin6882]

With the reopening of Fayetteville Street to traffic, it got me wondering what my ideal Fayetteville Street would entail.  I wasn't alive during its heyday, so I've only known the street as a dead, somewhat dangerous urban pedestrian mall.

I've see pictures of how it was back in the day, and I have a few ideas of what I'd like to see become of Fayetteville Street and I wanted to get you guy's opinion of what you'd like to see and what kind of businesses will thrive there.  I'll start off with one thing I would really love to see on Fayetteville Street.

The Sir Walter needs to be converted back into a hotel, something like a Ritz-Carlton with the overhang over Fayetteville Street with the lights running around it and Flags propped up on top of the overhang to drop out dignitaries, politicians, visitors, etc.  This would add glamour to the street, which I definitely think it needs.  This is Raleigh's main street, and I don't want it to be boring to look at.

That being said, my vision for Fayetteville Street is one of glamour and high style, and high energy.  I think it will be awesome when we can watch the Christmas parade come down Fayetteville Street once again.

So, now your turn, name a business (or type of business) you'd like to see come to Fayetteville Street that would help make it your "ideal" street.  Also, explain what your ideal Fayetteville Street would be.

[paletexan]

Justin6882, on Sep 14 2005, 09:38 AM, said:

That being said, my vision for Fayetteville Street is one of glamour and high style, and high energy.  I think it will be awesome when we can watch the Christmas parade come down Fayetteville Street once again.

I think your vision sounds great.  In my opinion, Glenwood south may steal the title for glamour and high style.  A luxury hotel would better suite that crowd than Fayetteville Street.

This may sound tacky, but I've always wished the flea market would move out there, and build that big city / urban vibe.  Believe it or not, you can get some really cook knock off stuff there that you'd find in NYC.

[ericurbanite]

I want to see great restaurants like a good ol carolina bbq place with outdoor dining something that highlights North Carolina food.  Upscale shopping like you have around Georgetown in DC (Polo etc.).  Also a 24 hour street with coffee shops opening early right after the bars on the street close at 2 in the morning.  Hotels, and condos above all of it.

I like how the street lights look with the acorn and the view of the Cap. Building and the BTI center.

[ChiefJoJo]

I really like the idea of an urban entertainment district near the Cultural/RCC district.  Having a totally new draw like a movie theater and maybe some high end retail and a boutique hotel.  It seems like that is what is being considered in the city proposals, which should be a good start.  I think lot of class A office (maybe another HQ to go with PE, and RBC), hotels, condos (I'd like to see some mid-rise condos too--maybe 15+ stories), and ground floor retail (restaurants) will always be a good combination.

Edited by ChiefJoJo, 14 September 2005 - 12:42 PM.

[urbanesq]

Agreed as to Sir Walter:  it should be restored to its hey-dey charm & beauty.  I think with the convention center opening, there would be increased demand for something above and beyond the Sheraton or Marriott;  if they made it a 5-star showplace with a great il Palio type restaurant in the lobby, it would really add something to the street, and to downtown in general.

Not that the downtown market can support it just yet, but I would love to see more art galleries, upscale national retailers and a diverse collection of local eateries.  Nothing that gets so generic that it could be Anywhere USA, but just enough chic to really set the street apart from the other areas of town.

My 10-year-old daughter says we need the American Girl Place to open a franchise here.

[orulz]

I want to see something that will bring folks out there 20 hours a day (6am-2am?) 7 days a week. Get some bars and restaurants out there and you have the nighttime aspect of things covered, but this should be a destination on Saturday and Sunday afternoons, too. Something like a department store and accompanying boutique retail would be great. It would be neat if Belk wanted to open back up on Fayetteville Street. I suspect we're still years too early for that. They'll open a larger store in Charlotte first, and if that works out then they'd consider Raleigh. If not Belk, some other kind of department store would be great. It should be a nice place, but it doesn't have to be so upscale that it makes your mind bleed.

[capitalapts]

I like the ideas I'm reading here, but the bottom line for Fay. St.'s reawakening, as for downtown's as a hole, will be how many RESIDENTS will be in the area.  I am pleased with all the condo projects coming up, but not pleased with the mean price-let's face it, it's the younger crowd that's usually out and about, and unless more affordable housing is constructed, downtown revitalization in Raleighwood is not going to be entirely successful.  

That's not to say that I don't think great strides are being made.  But we do have a long way to go as far as giving people a place to rest their heads in downtown proper (I'm talking about within the grid itself, not up glenwood, etc.).  

That being said, I would like to see a large residential building (or three) go up on or adjacent to Fayetteville St.

[MR-2]

Yes, some more low-to-medium rent apartments would be beneficial. Fay street needs all the types of retail a standard suburban mall would offer, as well as some more interesting stuff. Once it extends to the PE Arts Center and the new housing/hotels go up on that side of the street, I think it'll explode.

[Subway Scoundrel]

I would like to see many restaurants in a row with outdoor dining like the old warehouse district in Vancouver,  where you have people on the sidewalk and full inside.  I would like to see these restaurants with windows that open up like doors to blur the line between indoors and outdoors.  

I want a theater and a library.  I want more high end shopping or at least boutique shopping, mostly high end women's shops.  I would like to see hidden simple bars right off  Fay St. like Lizzies, under the Martin St Music Hall.   I would like to see a live R&R music hall open along with the Lincoln.  (Open back up MSMH).  I want to see a boutique hotel like the one Greg Hatem is planning along with the Marriott and The Sheraton.  (keep the Sir Walter  as an old persons home since I don’t  think it will ever be refurbished, it will be torn down)  

I want to see every basement space turned into something--either a bar or a coffee shop.   I want the drug store to stay and stay open late.  I would love to see an Italian deli like Conti's open up either on Fay street or near.   I would like to see a shoe store open (you have made it then).  I want a small grocery store off one of the side streets.  I want a late "night pizza by the slice joint" that is just a whole in the wall like NY PIzza on Hillsbourgh street.

I want several high end restaurants full of business travelers during the week and full of locals on the weekend.   I want to see drunk businessmen in suits late on week day nights taking the last drink of the night sitting beside a bus driver that just got off work, an insomniac wife drinking coffee, ladies of questionable virtues on break and punk chicks waiting for their boyfriends.  

But if there is one point where we can say....."we made it" is when we have an off brand name or small chain bookstore that is opened until 1:00am that has a guy playing acoustic music and the place is full at 12:00 midnight of people looking at books and hanging around just because they happened to be walking by.   That could take years !!

[raleightransplant]

Subway Scoundrel, on Sep 14 2005, 07:11 PM, said:

I would like to see many restaurants in a row with outdoor dining like the old warehouse district in Vancouver,  where you have people on the sidewalk and full inside.  I would like to see these restaurants with windows that open up like doors to blur the line between indoors and outdoors.   

I want a theater and a library.  I want more high end shopping or at least boutique shopping, mostly high end women's shops.  I would like to see hidden simple bars right off  Fay St. like Lizzies, under the Martin St Music Hall.   I would like to see a live R&R music hall open along with the Lincoln.  (Open back up MSMH).  I want to see a boutique hotel like the one Greg Hatem is planning along with the Marriott and The Sheraton.  (keep the Sir Walter  as an old persons home since I don’t  think it will ever be refurbished, it will be torn down)   

I want to see every basement space turned into something--either a bar or a coffee shop.   I want the drug store to stay and stay open late.  I would love to see an Italian deli like Conti's open up either on Fay street or near.   I would like to see a shoe store open (you have made it then).  I want a small grocery store off one of the side streets.  I want a late "night pizza by the slice joint" that is just a whole in the wall like NY PIzza on Hillsbourgh street.

I want several high end restaurants full of business travelers during the week and full of locals on the weekend.   I want to see drunk businessmen in suits late on week day nights taking the last drink of the night sitting beside a bus driver that just got off work, an insomniac wife drinking coffee, ladies of questionable virtues on break and punk chicks waiting for their boyfriends. 

But if there is one point where we can say....."we made it" is when we have an off brand name or small chain bookstore that is opened until 1:00am that has a guy playing acoustic music and the place is full at 12:00 midnight of people looking at books and hanging around just because they happened to be walking by.   That could take years !!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen.  I love these suggestions because I agree with about every one of them.  I was driving through downtown the other day, and I really got excited because I know great things can happen down there.  It's the quirky things that could really establish a street like that...ESPECIALLY w/ residential.  If I'm Raleigh, I'm taking a good hard look at what Austin, TX has done with it's CBD.  Hey, it's not crazy...it's rather attainable if you look at it.  Play off your strengths...If you're a young hip place with a lot of artistic people (or overgrown college town, some might say) play to it!  It's unique and you can carve your own niche.  Raleigh's not like Charlotte in the sense that there are some older buildings...REHAB those babies...that could be really cool looking!  If I were living downtown (which I hope to, and is the reason I haven't bought in the burbs) I would want the following...A couple cool coffeehouses,  a regular grocery store and a gourmet grocer, a late-night record store, some good retail that is high-end (something to do on a nice fall Saturday afternoon), NY Pizza by the slice, good mix of bars, some great restaurants to take visitors, galleries, etc.  We have Big Ed's which is really cool, so throw in a bagel shop down there too.

[MR-2]

The next 30-floor building they build should have red outline lights on it akin to the (green) ones on Bank of America in Dallas. It would make Raleigh look very distinctive and pretty. I think it would draw people's interests, make them want to see what's happening.

Edited by MR-2, 14 September 2005 - 06:32 PM.